Current Carbon Dioxide Emission Highest Ever in Earth History

[wyly]

i'm just a lurker but I am just curious... where are you from, did you grow up in a ghetto? Are you from Canada or is there really pockets of humans in this country that live in a setting where you could actually know 20 people whom have died from drug abuse?

hard to believe if you've grow up in a lower middle to upper class canada, you would have no idea how the other half lives because you don't live in their world...and yes there pockets in canada where Oleg's claims are absolutely plausible, until you have visited that world you have no idea it exists...and it does...

[WIP]

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2010/04/19/global-warming-hysteria-smog-good-carbon-dioxide-bad/

No point to posting a link without comment....but, I decided to take a look anyway. It turns out to be a typical argument now from the denial side, that goes along the line of 'focus on smog and particulate air pollution that directly harms health, rather than rising CO2 emissions, which have secondary negative effects by inducing a more extreme climate. It also quotes research that part of the acceleration in global mean temperatures may be due to the reduction in air pollution, which has allowed more sunlight in to warm up the atmosphere....and that leads to the next bad advice - let's just geoengineer our way out of this mess instead of dealing with our additions to greenhouse gas levels.

Even if geoengineering is possible, and can reduce global temperatures...a lot of attempts to modify weather end in disaster because the climate systems are so complex...there still is the problem of increased carbon absorption by the World's oceans. The oceans are becoming more acidic, and this is a primary cause of rapidly declining fish stocks, coral bleaching, documented in a new IPSO report on the state of the World's oceans.

The oceans are dying, which will kill most of the creatures on land, if past similar mass extinctions are any indication of how this scenario will play out; so just pumping crap in the air to keep the atmosphere cooler, will not deal with this crisis at all!

Edited July 27, 2011 by WIP

[noahbody]

The oceans are becoming more acidic, and this is a primary cause of rapidly declining fish stocks

The report says the primary causes are over-fishing and habitat loss.

documented in a new IPSO report on the state of the World's oceans.

The IPSO report was written on Dress Up Like Scientists Day at an activism convention.

http://www.climate-resistance.org/2011/06/the-fishy-wishy-washy-ipso-report.html

[WIP]

The report says the primary causes are over-fishing and habitat loss.

Sure, as long as you ignore the next point: "but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said."

As more carbon is added to the atmosphere, half of that carbon is absorbed by the oceans....which increases the problems of acidification. So the negative effects of increased greenhouse gases is not a static effect on the World's oceans; it's something that will keep growing for the foreseeable future, unlike over-fishing, which could be controlled through quotas or fishing bans. I don't think every oceanographer would agree with the committee in the first place - that overfishing and habitat loss are more serious problems at this moment, especially as new research is showing how the changing ph of the oceans is causing die-offs from messing with the sonar abilities of prey fish.

The IPSO report was written on Dress Up Like Scientists Day at an activism convention.

http://www.climate-resistance.org/2011/06/the-fishy-wishy-washy-ipso-report.html

So, if you don't accept their credentials, why are you using part of the report that you think you can fit into your denial strategy?

[Oleg Bach]

i'm just a lurker but I am just curious... where are you from, did you grow up in a ghetto? Are you from Canada or is there really pockets of humans in this country that live in a setting where you could actually know 20 people whom have died from drug abuse?

I have been in Canada since I was 5 months old. I grew up with two immigrant parents who managed to create some wealth and we lived well in comparison to most of the rest of the neighbourhood. The place I grew up was a rural area ..that at one time was a resort area just 30 kilometers north of Toronto - It was a collection of cottages that encircled a little kettle lake called Lake Wilcox. The people were very poor - some of these shacks had up to 18 children - it was Canadian hill billy country...when drugs appeared - these people - had no idea that they were deadly - so use of hard drugs were rampant.

My family owned a few properties and we rented out a cottage to a couple of locals...It turned into a shooting gallery...I had no idea what that was at the time...I observed - and associated with some of the druggies...went to public school with most of them - They all perished one at a time - as I mentioned I can count about 17 that are dead...

The area had before developement a great natural beauty - but a horrible repution during the 40s and 50s - gangsters use to come up and hide in the area at one time...soldier that were not officers needed housing and did their best - at night - It was said in neighbouring towns..don't go to Lake Wilcox at night or you will get stabbed...well - It was not that bad - just isolated...the people I mentioned that are now dead - were not bad folks - they simply were un-educated and ill-informed classic white trash - but they were my friends.

My mother had a lake side resturant and she fed the children of the poor - every evening they would go to "Marie's" and my mum would feed them..The locals refered to her as mum..she was quite the woman.

[Oleg Bach]

I have been in Canada since I was 5 months old. I grew up with two immigrant parents who managed to create some wealth and we lived well in comparison to most of the rest of the neighbourhood. The place I grew up was a rural area ..that at one time was a resort area just 30 kilometers north of Toronto - It was a collection of cottages that encircled a little kettle lake called Lake Wilcox. The people were very poor - some of these shacks had up to 18 children - it was Canadian hill billy country...when drugs appeared - these people - had no idea that they were deadly - so use of hard drugs were rampant.

My family owned a few properties and we rented out a cottage to a couple of locals...It turned into a shooting gallery...I had no idea what that was at the time...I observed - and associated with some of the druggies...went to public school with most of them - They all perished one at a time - as I mentioned I can count about 17 that are dead...

The area had before developement a great natural beauty - but a horrible repution during the 40s and 50s - gangsters use to come up and hide in the area at one time...soldier that were not officers needed housing and did their best - at night - It was said in neighbouring towns..don't go to Lake Wilcox at night or you will get stabbed...well - It was not that bad - just isolated...the people I mentioned that are now dead - were not bad folks - they simply were un-educated and ill-informed classic white trash - but they were my friends.

My mother had a lake side resturant and she fed the children of the poor - every evening they would go to "Marie's" and my mum would feed them..The locals refered to her as mum..she was quite the woman.

The point of my above post was to show kids of today that this substance called "Crystal" is not some new and glamourous designer drug - It is speed...Meth - Methamphetimine - totally deadly and kills all that use it..it makes crack look like mothers milk.

[noahbody]

So, if you don't accept their credentials, why are you using part of the report that you think you can fit into your denial strategy?

I used the part of the report to show you misrepresented what the report said. According to the report, global warming is not a primary cause, as you claimed.

[WIP]

I used the part of the report to show you misrepresented what the report said. According to the report, global warming is not a primary cause, as you claimed.

Look asshole...I didn't say the report stated ocean acidification was the only cause of decline of fish stocks. I misrepresented nothing. The lies are coming from you assholes who pull a few quotes and statistics out and misrepresent them as a case against global warming!

[noahbody]

Look asshole...I didn't say the report stated ocean acidification was the only cause of decline of fish stocks. I misrepresented nothing. The lies are coming from you assholes who pull a few quotes and statistics out and misrepresent them as a case against global warming!

I didn't say you said it was the only cause. You said it was a primary cause. It clearly states what they believese are the "chief" or primary causes. So yes, you're wrong.

[Michael Hardner]

I didn't say you said it was the only cause. You said it was a primary cause. It clearly states what they believese are the "chief" or primary causes. So yes, you're wrong.

Another example of an insult being correctly handled. Thanks for the civility noahbody.

[WIP]

Another example of an insult being correctly handled. Thanks for the civility noahbody.

Maybe that's why this board is a waste of time! To you, it's okay to lie and misrepresent someone else's statements...or perhaps not understand the difference between "a" and "the", but not okay to call them an asshole for doing it! So, we have a bunch of assholes here who word games rather than engage in anything resembling honest debate. Total fucking waste of time! I want to delete my account, but this forum seems to have no way to let you leave on your own!

[Michael Hardner]

To you, it's okay to lie and misrepresent someone else's statements...or perhaps not understand the difference between "a" and "the", but not okay to call them an asshole for doing it! So, we have a bunch of assholes here who word games rather than engage in anything resembling honest debate. Total fucking waste of time! I want to delete my account, but this forum seems to have no way to let you leave on your own!

I understand how you can be passionate about the debate, but don't you see how it makes you look bad ?

Lying and misrepresenting is dealt with easily enough, and the worst offenders are castigated for it on all sides. Think Lictor here.

It's a discussion board, and discussion has a form and an aesthetic that we can all admire whether or not we agree with the points made. It's not a "being right" board. I'm sorry to be the hall monitor, the shushing librarian and the bacteria inspector - never sexy - but I agreed to do that when I volunteered to be facilitator.

I really hope you stay.

[Oleg Bach]

Another example of an insult being correctly handled. Thanks for the civility noahbody.

Nice touch. Soon as you see a word like asshole - it makes the head reel back for a moment - It detracts and deferes an intelligent converstion...causing emotion to jump in and push logic aside - and no one benefits. Logic should always trump emotion.

[Oleg Bach]

Maybe that's why this board is a waste of time! To you, it's okay to lie and misrepresent someone else's statements...or perhaps not understand the difference between "a" and "the", but not okay to call them an asshole for doing it! So, we have a bunch of assholes here who word games rather than engage in anything resembling honest debate. Total fucking waste of time! I want to delete my account, but this forum seems to have no way to let you leave on your own!

There are some fine minds that appear here on occassion - be patient it takes time...if you have something wise to contribute - don't run away...stay and make a stand and learn...Eventually those that have the guts to continue learn one thing - respect is the trasfere of power - a mutaul transfer...the site does take a nose dive once in a while but always recovers....I spent a few years on an American political sight run by young people - I learned a lot - sadly the thing slowly fell apart.....

Word games are politics - look for the holes and defects and untruths in a statement from a person you are conversing with - learn to spot the weakness and come in for the kill --- It is a skill you will need in the future - any document can be dismantled - find the one word or hole and go in...and take them out.

[Sir Bandelot]

To be an effective poster in this place, one has to employ a certain sense of humour.

[Bonam]

I want to delete my account, but this forum seems to have no way to let you leave on your own!

What the heck? If you want to leave the forum, simply don't visit it anymore, don't read the threads, don't post. No one is keeping you trapped here...

[bush_cheney2004]

..... Total fucking waste of time! I want to delete my account, but this forum seems to have no way to let you leave on your own!

...Last thing I remember, I was

Running for the door

I had to find the passage back

To the place I was before

’relax,’ said the night man,

We are programmed to receive.

You can checkout any time you like,

But you can never leave!

- Hotel California

[Oleg Bach]

To be an effective poster in this place, one has to employ a certain sense of humour.

That's funny that you use the word effective. So what's so funny about those gasping for breath that insist there is no increase in carbon dioxide? The air is shitty as of late - It does not have enough oxygen..the young do not notice because they are strong - the older you get the more you can tell that the life sustaining atmosphere is not as life sustaining - and no comments about heavey smoking... Smoking is good for you - it puts a calous on the lungs and guards you from the other filth.

[noahbody]

...or perhaps not understand the difference between "a" and "the"

"A" or "the" doesn't matter. The word that matters is "primary." They might consider global warming a secondary cause or a contributor, but they're very clear they don't consider it to be a primary cause. Hope that clears it up.

[waldo]

"A" or "the" doesn't matter. The word that matters is "primary." They might consider global warming a secondary cause or a contributor, but they're very clear they don't consider it to be a primary cause. Hope that clears it up.

and if you're going to be an assholy, pedantic, anal, wordsmithing, parser extraordinaire... you should have multiple dictionaries at hand.

as you put the emphasis on the word "primary", the very fact the report statement's first sentence references to two (2) entities (1. overexploitation (over fishing) & 2. habitat loss), affecting an increasing threat to extinction, shows that the report's applied use was not intended to mean, "first or principal". Rather, as there can only be one "first" or one "principal", with the plurality of entities mentioned, the report's applied use was intended to mean "essential"... or "fundamental"... or "relating to". The report then also immediately follows this up with a second sentence emphasizing an increasing contributory threat impact to extinction associated with climate change (as in, acidification & warming which are causal links to coral bleaching as affects reef colonizing fish).

in the combined context of those two sentences, MLW member WIP is most certainly correct in stating increased acidity is a primary cause of rapidly declining fish stocks and coral bleaching.

The oceans are becoming more acidic, and this is

a

primary cause of rapidly declining fish stocks, coral bleaching, documented in a new IPSO report on the state of the World's oceans.

hope that clears it up, hey?

[GostHacked]

I understand how you can be passionate about the debate, but don't you see how it makes you look bad ?

This is the only time I am going to mention this.... because it really is off topic. And you, by replying to his thread are actually contributing to thread drift and threads being derailed.

The only ones that look bad are the ones who continually mock others, which may not be against forum, rules, but in fact are, because these same few individuals try to derail threads all the time, and little if anything is done about it. They do not add anything to the discussion. I get a month vacation from the site, for swearing, while we have others openly advocating genocide. But I guess hate speach is allowed and not against the rules here. Seems kind of backwards.

It's a discussion board, and discussion has a form and an aesthetic that we can all admire whether or not we agree with the points made. It's not a "being right" board. I'm sorry to be the hall monitor, the shushing librarian and the bacteria inspector - never sexy - but I agreed to do that when I volunteered to be facilitator.

What some do in here, is not discussion at all. I'd hope you have understood that by now, but yet those individuals are allowed to still post here. Call a troll a troll and deal with them.

[Michael Hardner]

What some do in here, is not discussion at all. I'd hope you have understood that by now, but yet those individuals are allowed to still post here. Call a troll a troll and deal with them.

I feel that I have to explain myself here - I am not a moderator here, but a facilitator, which is a poster just like you. I have been asked to help keep discussions on track so this is the reason behind posts such as this. If you disagree with my role here, please talk to the moderators.

[wyly]

I get a month vacation from the site, for swearing, while we have others openly advocating genocide. But I guess hate speach is allowed and not against the rules here. Seems kind of backwards.

agree on that...I've been cautioned for calling out racists for blatant racism, for naughty language and even hurting some drama queen's feelings...but the racists along with their hate speech continue on...

[TimG]

agree on that...I've been cautioned for calling out racists for blatant racism, for naughty language and even hurting some drama queen's feelings...but the racists along with their hate speech continue on...

There is a difference between expression objectionable ideas and simply being rude and insulting. If you have a beef with the former the appropriate response is reasoned argument.

And based on your and GostHacked's comments I would say the moderaters have got it right by allowing the discussion of ideas that many may find objectionable and instead focus on keeping the discussion civil.

Edited August 16, 2011 by TimG

[noahbody]

and if you're going to be an assholy, pedantic, anal, wordsmithing, parser extraordinaire... you should have multiple dictionaries at hand.

Sure, the more the better.

as you put the emphasis on the word "primary", the very fact the report statement's first sentence references to two (2) entities (1. overexploitation (over fishing) & 2. habitat loss), affecting an increasing threat to extinction, shows that the report's applied use was not intended to mean, "first or principal".

Firstly, the report didn't use the word "primary." It was used by WIP. The report said, "The chief causes for extinctions at the moment are overfishing and habitat loss, but global warming is "increasingly adding to this," the report said." Global Warming was not named a chief/primary/principal cause.

Rather, as there can only be one "first" or one "principal",

Not to be all assholely, but principal can refer to more than one.

with the plurality of entities mentioned, the report's applied use was intended to mean "essential"... or "fundamental"... or "relating to".

Thanks for clearing up what the reports intended meaning was for a word it didn't use. I appreciate your wisdom.