$127 Million cut from reservation housing

PIK · June 9, 2011

Add up the totals and how in hell could any native be without a house. I guess what harper is cutting is the money going to the chief's accounts. I hope to see a audit of native affairs , a audit that I understand the libs have alway thwarted.

Saipan · June 9, 2011

Not very familiar with Canadian history, are you? Or do you skip all the stuff that came before 1867?

Yes, there was no Canada before 1867.

Saipan · June 9, 2011

What we should do is force them to assimilate by taking their kids, educating them in special schools to teach them the modern ways of Canada, languages, arts and maths. That should do it.

Or to use your own words from other thread:

Shwa, on 09 June 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:
Because they are backward and needed a lesson in how things are run properly.

I.e. we better bomb the indians too then.

Michael Hardner · June 9, 2011

The game has changed completely in the last 20 years.

Used to be that Indian and Northern Affairs employed a whole slug of engineers, accountants and executives whose jobs were to identify, build, manage, fund all the details of capital projects -like housing- on reserve or band lands.

Now the money is just given to the newly mnted First Nations, who insist on identifying and managing their own money and own projects as any self governing entity would. Some do it better than others. If they choose not to build housing that meets my approval, so be it.

One thing that has not changed is that the bureaucrats who used to have actual tasks at DIAND are still there, though it is unclear what if anything they do now except get paid.

ft - this was the most informative post on the thread so far.

I am guilty of not following this issue. When did the policy change from the "used to be" situation to the "now the money is just given" approach ?

charter.rights · June 9, 2011

Of course the only starting point is this:

The Royal Proclamation 1763 set out certain boundaries for the colonies and recognized not only aboriginal title to all other lands but procedures for obtaining more lands when native people wished to dispose of it. So the assumption in any future agreements is that aboriginal people hold absolute title to all lands in Canada (since they are outside the original 4 colonies specified under the Proclamation) and hold the Crown responsible for proving that the settlement of lands, and the assumption of Crown jurisdiction over lands was legitimate and according to the procedures set out. From that point, aboriginal people have the absolute right to benefit from sharing revenues and taxation (that Canada receives on those lands).

Only after those benefits and rights have been recognize can we hope to enter into perpetual treaty agreements with First Nations.

Michael Hardner · June 9, 2011

Only after those benefits and rights have been recognize can we hope to enter into perpetual treaty agreements with First Nations.

CR - what do you think is realistic ? What would be the best way to move forward ?

Tilter · June 9, 2011

CR - what do you think is realistic ? What would be the best way to move forward ?

The first thing that needs to happen is an audit of the funding of the Indian affairs.

With the amount of money provided to the Native population of Canada there should be no problems with housing, education or any other issue dealing with them. Where is all the money going?

Shwa · June 9, 2011

Or to use your own words from other thread:

I.e. we better bomb the indians too then.

Something like half of them live in the cities. Good luck trying to source them out.

cybercoma · June 9, 2011

You also need a current events lesson.

INAC must approve every project when funding is requested by First Nations. They require architects and engineers and consultants be hired BEFORE any of the money is released. Then only guarantees are given and the First Nations must build the infrastructure using bank loans or other types of interim financing BEFORE they receive the cheque.

I know one First Nation who have proposed a water treatment plant and have been embroiled in INAC red tape for about 10 years over it. INAC at first requested a consultant (the first $250,000) to evaluate needs and the size of plant required. After about 3 years of review (and a new government) INAC decided to require a second consultant (this time $750,000) to come up with selections based on the most modern technology available. The estimated cost of the first proposal was around $10 million. The estimated cost of the 2nd proposal is $75 million. INAC now says they don't have the money available for such a high cost of water treatment but insist they will not use the first proposal because it is based on the same system that the rest of Ontario uses. Meanwhile 60% of reserve houses AND the school AND the health and wellness centre don't have access to potable water and have to have water trucked in at a personal cost of about $3500 per year.

The screw up on this one example is totally with the government.

I don't think people are aware what it means that the First Nations are entirely under the jurisdiction of the federal government. Thanks for the example.

Saipan · June 9, 2011

Something like half of them live in the cities. Good luck trying to source them out.

Is that "their old ways"? Hunting city racoons, eh.

Shwa · June 9, 2011

Is that "their old ways"? Hunting city racoons, eh.

No, it is them adapting with a goal toward their advantage, like they always have. Like most people do...

Michael Hardner · June 9, 2011

The first thing that needs to happen is an audit of the funding of the Indian affairs.

With the amount of money provided to the Native population of Canada there should be no problems with housing, education or any other issue dealing with them. Where is all the money going?

I'd be interested to see what charter.rights thinks of that idea.

Saipan · June 9, 2011

So it's time to live like ALL nations here. From Hungarians to Portuguese, right.

Shwa · June 9, 2011

So it's time to live like ALL nations here. From Hungarians to Portuguese, right.

Excellent. So you are fully on board with multiculturalism. I knew, sooner or later, you'd give in.

charter.rights · June 9, 2011

CR - what do you think is realistic ? What would be the best way to move forward ?

According to the academic circles engaged in aboriginal issues there have been two major stumbling blocks to reconciliation in a multinational society.

The first is that native people are not only misrepresented by band councils but that native people are mis-identified. That means when we hear pejorative generalizations, they prolong our common ignorance on the real nature of all the issues. Thus the general ignorunts (some that post here regularly)identify that native people are drunks, or corrupt or otherwise incapable of handling their affairs. This is not only blatantly incorrect, but borders on racism defined against the UN Declaration on the Rights Of Indigenous Peoples (as a framework for colonial - aboriginal relationships).

Secondly, recognition of the facts, such as the extent of the Royal Proclamation 1763, its inclusion in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as demanded by the Queen, and the British High Court rulings that set the stage for the section 35 inclusions, are mandatory. There is no doubt that aboriginal people not only have legal standing over and above Canada, but that the rights and land title are above Canadian law. The government is the worst offender, and if agreements cannot be reached to advance development or economic development on native lands it is most often the result of government refusing to acknowledge this very important point.

Until agreement can be achieved on these two salient points, we will maintain the status quo. The fact is that First Nations people are not Canadians by default and the Crown (and not the First Nation) has the responsibility under law to prove that valid surrenders we process according to the Royal Proclamation 1763.

charter.rights · June 9, 2011

I'd be interested to see what charter.rights thinks of that idea.

Of course the funding that INAC receives does not translate to First Nation funding. The reality is that only about 30% of INAC's total budget actually makes it to First Nations, and when compared to municipality funding transfers it is far less per capita. Education, health, housing and social services are all generally underfunded by more than 50% of the mainstream and most of the money INAC receives is consumed on salaries and programs directed at their own employees.

Sheila Fraser has identified these issues in the last 3 audits she performed. This serious underfunding has led in some case to third world conditions on reserves. In the past she has stated that First Nations are scrutinized more than any other organization in Canada, and are held more accountable than any government departments. The problem she cited were with reports sitting for months at a time on bureaucrats' desks unread, while they demanded the same reports from First Nations over and over again. The inefficiency and even corruption begins and ends in INAC.

Tilter will get his wish since the last Auditor General's report issued by Sheila Fraser was set to be release this week. She included an audit on INAC among other things but as usual it will get lost in the scathing report on G8 / G20 spending that will grab media attention.

cybercoma · June 9, 2011

If they're so underfunded, why are some reserves doing well then? [/conservative talking point]

RNG · June 9, 2011

And why are there so many news stories about gross financial abuse? Councils being taken to Vegas etc., the chief of the Slave Lake band having a private plane flying all over while his people were literally starving about 15 years ago?

I don't know how prevalent these things are, and know of two reserves in Alberta that are well managed and quite wealthy, but the stories in the press tend to go against that.

scribblet · June 9, 2011

Maybe we need another Chief clarence Louie

http://www.wawataynews.ca/archive/all/2009/11/18/Bring-back-hard-work-Chief-Clarence-Louie_18559

and

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/06/04/kevin-libin-alberta-bands-challenge-too-many-chiefs-not-enough-indians/

Maybe we should revisit Chretien's paper on doing away with the Indian act.

charter.rights · June 10, 2011

If they're so underfunded, why are some reserves doing well then? [/conservative talking point]

Many - especially in Ontario - are bolstered by their own economic development initiatives as well as casino money. However, this money cannot go into infrastructure or operations. Still, their schools, health programs and lack of potable water still affect them.

charter.rights · June 10, 2011

And why are there so many news stories about gross financial abuse? Councils being taken to Vegas etc., the chief of the Slave Lake band having a private plane flying all over while his people were literally starving about 15 years ago?

I don't know how prevalent these things are, and know of two reserves in Alberta that are well managed and quite wealthy, but the stories in the press tend to go against that.

They are not prevalent. And they are not unique to First Nations. Did you bat an eye that Harper used military jet to fly him and his kids to Boston for last nights hockey game? Do you think he is entitled?

RNG · June 10, 2011

They are not prevalent. And they are not unique to First Nations. Did you bat an eye that Harper used military jet to fly him and his kids to Boston for last nights hockey game? Do you think he is entitled?

That wasn't a military jet, dingbat, it is his private jet. Regs in this country mandate that. There's a whole gazillion page thread on that topic going now. So bugger off.

Michael Hardner · June 10, 2011

Until agreement can be achieved on these two salient points, we will maintain the status quo.

You're saying that Canadian Law is lower than Native law ? So it's not even that there are two separate nations but that one is below the other ?

And you didn't comment on the idea of auditing recipients of federal money, did you ? You talked about the INAC audit only.

charter.rights · June 10, 2011

Maybe we need another Chief clarence Louie

http://www.wawataynews.ca/archive/all/2009/11/18/Bring-back-hard-work-Chief-Clarence-Louie_18559

and

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/06/04/kevin-libin-alberta-bands-challenge-too-many-chiefs-not-enough-indians/

Maybe we should revisit Chretien's paper on doing away with the Indian act.

The Indian Act can only be replace, not eliminated. The problem is that the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility to First Nations as well as having to manage over $2 trillion in First Nation trust accounts. Some Act must be available to do this, as well as providing for our governments obligations to provide health, education and land claims. Maybe a new Aboriginal Act will be coming...but not without first consulting, negotiating, accommodating and reconciling with First Nations first, as required under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

charter.rights · June 10, 2011

You're saying that Canadian Law is lower than Native law ? So it's not even that there are two separate nations but that one is below the other ?

And you didn't comment on the idea of auditing recipients of federal money, did you ? You talked about the INAC audit only.

Nope never said that. But nice try on a straw man argument.

Aboriginal rights are not subject to Canadian law. The Charter guarantees it.