Saipan Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Does that mean you won't vote Liberals next election, provincial and federal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Let me discuss the second part of your question. It seems obvious to me that when you arrest protesters,confine them or even just pen them in like cattle,this would be enough to discourage the citizens from being active in our society. "In the last ten or so years many Canadians have become very innactive in participating in our democracy." I see - you're saying that the response to the G20 protests discourages people from participating in democracy, i.e. protesting. Yet, I see that a lot of people came to G20 to protest, so did past efforts to clamp down on protesters not help for some reason ? Or is the government getting better at discouraging people ? Another way Canadians can be involved in amending legislation is through the legal system.And thats freekin expensive!I do not have to explain how that is discouraging! I don't know what you're talking about here. What legislation ? Amending how ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 So voting isn't part of it ? It's not practical ? Strong point your making! Voting is a big part of the picture! And relative to who gets elected and what your viewpoint is. However 3 or 4 parties can not reflect all opinions or stress the order of importance of each issue that may arise. It has bein clearly shown that protesting is an integrall part of western civilization over the last 100-120 yrs. This is something that should be nurtured and encouraged,not penalized and shamed. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I would complain to them, not here. Calling them names isn't helpful here or there. The complaints aren't going to work considering the first rule of Rabble: babble is NOT intended as a place where the basic and essential values of human rights, feminism, anti-racism, and labour rights are to be debated or refought. Members that join babble who indicate intentions to challenge these rights and principles may be seen as disruptive to the nature of the forum. Such members may be warned, have their accounts suspended, or banned altogether. Repeated attempts to provoke conflict, bait or taunt will not be tolerated. Continued participation on these boards is at the sole discretion of the moderators and staff of this site. They'll just toss it up to that. It's amazing how many people don't read the rules of forums they post at, then act surprised when they're banned or warned. Rabble is a left-wing "progressive" site. You can disagree with their rules and policies, but you're not going to change them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Yet, I see that a lot of people came to G20 to protest, so did past efforts to clamp down on protesters not help for some reason ? Or is the government getting better at discouraging people ? I don't know what you're talking about here. What legislation ? Amending how ? I am not sure if you are correct in saying or implying many people at the last G20.I am not sure if there is any data or stats available as to how many people participated in this protest compared to other signifigant rallies in the past 10-20yrs. The number of arrests was record breaking,no argument there! Amending legislation through the legal system is expensive! Ex.A person is charged with possession of a controlled substance.This person can plea not guilty for various reasons. If the charged person is successful than his/her case can be used in similar future cases.If this trend continues then judges will ask the government to amend the legislation as is currently writen. Case point-before the May 2nd election a judge did tell the government that Marihuana laws must be amended within 90 days to reflect current reality or something along those lines. But this is very involved and is taking us away from the thread. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The complaints aren't going to work considering the first rule of Rabble: Why do we care ? The thread isn't about Rabble, and complaining about Rabble on this board won't get you anywhere with them - even if the thread manages to not insult that board as has been done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I don't have any sense with how this looks to mainstream Canadians. I know plenty of people who paint Harper as a fascist-in-waiting, but having lived through Harris I don't get that. Many of the people who are so anti-Harper seem to be too young to have been around during the Common Sense Revolution in Ontario where I live. It's interesting you should bring up the "Common Sense" Revolution. I remember it vividly and I still believe that Harris did irreparable damage to education and healthcare in Ontario. Before people jump down my throat--I kid, since that's not like you--I want to say that I understand cuts need to be made to education. As the baby-boomer entered school-age, more schools and more money needed to be spent on education. So, I can appreciate that an ageing demographic means money diverted from schools to healthcare. However, taking money from both was myopic and harmful, in my opinion. Moreover, the Catholic board in Windsor-Essex County has just cut all librarians from their system. I take the point that information is moving from paper books to digital formats, particularly academic journals and whatnot. Nevertheless, librarians are a necessary part of teaching research methods to students and promoting literacy. This wasn't a decision made by Harris, but it all stems from his Common Sense Revolution, which has gutted education and healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Nevertheless, librarians are a necessary part of teaching research methods to students and promoting literacy. This wasn't a decision made by Harris, but it all stems from his Common Sense Revolution, which has gutted education and healthcare.Our current benefit systems are not sustainable by any stretch of the imagination and most avenues to reform is usually blocked by entrenched unions. You may not like the way Harris approached the problem but he at least acknowledged there was a problem - unlike McGinty who will spend money on almost anything without any thought to the consequences. The eventual reckoning as governments hit the debt wall will make people reminisce for the days of Harris. Edited June 5, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Our current benefit systems are not sustainable by any stretch of the imagination... I guess not: ...According to the latest Ontario public sector salary disclosure list, 91 Windsor-Essex Catholic District School employees joined the 100K club, compared to just six in 2004, Dickie said. Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/business/Librarians+secretaries+laid+Windsor+Essex+Catholic+Distric+School+board/4648201/story.html#ixzz1OPvfVoSc Are Catholic schools still funded this way in Ontario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I'm guessing those 91 people weren't librarians and secretaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Actually for there to be any signifigant real change in this country there would have to be continuos,relentless and unfortunetly possibly violent protests in this country involving many.In the end we it would have to be something very similar to what has happened in some arab nations in the last few months. What you really mean is that since most people won't agree with the changes you want you think rioting and being violent might let you have your way anyway - somehow - if you can intimidate everyone through your violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ya thats right Canada has "free elections" I live in the riding of Brampton West,the most populous riding in Canada.PEI has about the same population and has four representatives! Ya thats real free or fair. Then you should be happy Stephen Harper is determined to address this situation by giving you guys more ridings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Let me discuss the second part of your question. It seems obvious to me that when you arrest protesters,confine them or even just pen them in like cattle,this would be enough to discourage the citizens from being active in our society. Agreed. However, that was done by the Toronto Police Department, and the mayor of Toronto was a pretty leftist guy, so I don't see how you can blame the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Agreed. However, that was done by the Toronto Police Department, and the mayor of Toronto was a pretty leftist guy, so I don't see how you can blame the Tories. I would say the the PM decided to hold the conference in Toronto and the premier executed the security policy in a devious way. Miller was initially happy to host, then seemed to realize how it would play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 What you really mean is that since most people won't agree with the changes you want you think rioting and being violent might let you have your way anyway - somehow - if you can intimidate everyone through your violence. Let me clarify that I have never asked or encouraged anyone to be violent or destructive in any thread or comment that I have made.Aswell I have never engaged in,participated or agreed with being destructive or violent. I have stated that it is unfortunate that any real change requires such behaviour! I believe that there are many ways to be desruptive without being destructive! Bridgette DePape has easily proven this! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Then you should be happy Stephen Harper is determined to address this situation by giving you guys more ridings. Agreed! I am glad to here that the Brampton west riding will be splitting up and in the next federal election and my vote will have more weight. I believe there is no argument between all three major parties regarding this issue.Except perhaps Quebecs share of representation. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Zip-lining? I had to look that one up. IMHO, that's not brave. It's just crazy. How so? It's perfectly safe. You are attached to a steel cable at all times. I've done it a bunch of times. If you want to see something that's just crazy, check out base jumping: Edited June 5, 2011 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The little bubblehead doesn't understand that the "Arab Spring" is made up of people who are fighting and dying for exactly what Canada just went through - democratic elections where the PEOPLE elect their government. This juvenile is the epitomy of the angry Left Wing who will only accept something if it agrees with their own view of the world. A sad spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 Agreed. However, that was done by the Toronto Police Department, and the mayor of Toronto was a pretty leftist guy, so I don't see how you can blame the Tories. I do not soley blame the tories for this trend in the Canadian government to isolate and marganalize the strong merit rightfully awarded to public protest. As far as I am concerned the Liberals are partners with the tories in this crime against public participaction! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted June 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 The little bubblehead doesn't understand that the "Arab Spring" is made up of people who are fighting and dying for exactly what Canada just went through - democratic elections where the PEOPLE elect their government. This juvenile is the epitomy of the angry Left Wing who will only accept something if it agrees with their own view of the world. A sad spectacle. I do not believe you know what Ms. DePape is or is not aware of. You are implying that we have it so good that we should never do anything to improve the quality of our democracy. Her intetion(in my opinion) was to not only send a strong message to the Harper government but to also rally those whom disagree with the current governments agenda. I believe that it is the rally call that really bothers the conservatives the most! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I do not believe you know what Ms. DePape is or is not aware of. You are implying that we have it so good that we should never do anything to improve the quality of our democracy. Her intetion(in my opinion) was to not only send a strong message to the Harper government but to also rally those whom disagree with the current governments agenda. I believe that it is the rally call that really bothers the conservatives the most! WWWTT So...let's grab some guns and take-over the government? No, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 I don't have any sense with how this looks to mainstream Canadians. I know plenty of people who paint Harper as a fascist-in-waiting, but having lived through Harris I don't get that. Many of the people who are so anti-Harper seem to be too young to have been around during the Common Sense Revolution in Ontario where I live. I think it is something of an error to equate these two situations, Michael. The power of the federal government is different from that of a provincial government. Sure, the provincial government has a lot of authority to execute laws, but the federal government has much more authority to make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 "I really think it's only through inappropriate action that you can challenge the status quo and have real change" link Seems inappropriate behavior hasn't hurt her any in the job market: She said she's received several job offers but hasn't decided her plans yet, though she will be participating in anti-Harper rallies and social movements. What a surprise that her "brave action" didn't hurt her job prospects. I wonder how many job offers she had received up until then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) I am curious if those here who are so quick to the defence of Ms. DePape would still feel the same way if she held up a sign that read "Stop Abortion" or "Stop Immigration"? Or is it just the message you are defending and not the method of delivery. Edited June 5, 2011 by pegasus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 5, 2011 Report Share Posted June 5, 2011 This is starting to remind me of the whole wikileaks thing where some people seem to be outraged at the very idea that someone would challenge government supremecy/authority. I think this girl is probably a bit naive and she doesnt seem to know specifically what shes protesting... But given that she feels the way she does, she did the right thing. If you figure you have something to say or some kind of statement to make obviously you shouldnt let a civil contract or misdemeanor stand in your way. And I think that if anything the media attention shes getting over this will probably create more opportunities for her than it costs her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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