The bravest person in Canada

[Michael Hardner]

I think it is something of an error to equate these two situations, Michael. The power of the federal government is different from that of a provincial government. Sure, the provincial government has a lot of authority to execute laws, but the federal government has much more authority to make them.

The provincial government also makes laws and has direct control over health, education and jurisdiction over cities.

[ReeferMadness]

The little bubblehead doesn't understand that the "Arab Spring" is made up of people who are fighting and dying for exactly what Canada just went through - democratic elections where the PEOPLE elect their government. This juvenile is the epitomy of the angry Left Wing who will only accept something if it agrees with their own view of the world. A sad spectacle.

Who do you think you are to judge this woman?

Maybe she understands that an election every few years doesn't mean that much if the PM is then free to do as he pleases. Even if what he pleases is against the wishes of the majority of Canadians. Maybe she gets that Harper and his cronies received the votes of only about 25% of eligible voters. Maybe she understands that, in 2008 when the Conservatives called the proposed coalition, a coup d'etat' they were either lying through their teeth or they were deeply ignorant of our system of governance. Either should have been enough to discredit them but apparently the level of political education in this country sucks. Maybe she saw that when Harper politicized the office of the Governor General by asking her to prorogue parliament to help him hide from Parliament, he was weakening our political institutions and cheapening our already cheap democracy. Maybe she can understand that Harper's concentration of power in the hands of unelected PMO staff, usurping the legitimate power of elected MP's, is fundamentally undemocratic.

The real question is why can't you get it? Perhaps if you had more intelligence, more wisdom and an open mind, you could learn from this woman.

[Scotty]

Agreed!

I am glad to here that the Brampton west riding will be splitting up and in the next federal election and my vote will have more weight.

I believe there is no argument between all three major parties regarding this issue.Except perhaps Quebecs share of representation.

WWWTT

Yes, the NDP is opposed to it. Last time around the opposition all united to block the Tories from going forward with this.

[Michael Hardner]

Perhaps if you had more intelligence, more wisdom and an open mind, you could learn from this woman.

Are you saying that people who are against this are unintelligent, unwise and closed-minded ?

That's a pot-vs-kettle smackdown if I've ever heard one. There is no singularity of truth on this, which is why we're debating it here.

[TimG]

This is starting to remind me of the whole wikileaks thing where some people seem to be outraged at the very idea that someone would challenge government supremecy/authority.

You are misrepresenting the issue.

This topic was started and lefty sychophant praised her for how "brave" she was. The responses have been in response to that rediculous assertion.

IOW - there would be no attempt to tear her down without the orginal attempt to heap unjustified praise.

What you are witnessing here is an attempt by political partisans to turn a self centered, self promoter into a martyr and you took the bait.

Edited June 5, 2011 by TimG

[Guest American Woman]

This is starting to remind me of the whole wikileaks thing where some people seem to be outraged at the very idea that someone would challenge government supremecy/authority.

I don't think it's the "challenging" part that people are having a problem with - it's her taking advantage of a privilege she was entrusted with to challenge the government and being hailed as "brave," a "hero," for it.

I think this girl is probably a bit naive and she doesnt seem to know specifically what shes protesting... But given that she feels the way she does, she did the right thing. If you figure you have something to say or some kind of statement to make obviously you shouldnt let a civil contract or misdemeanor stand in your way.

No one is denying her right to say or make her statement - it's how she chose to do it along with the impact it could have on others who are entrusted with the position she was privileged with - while being characterized as Canada's brave hero.

And I think that if anything the media attention shes getting over this will probably create more opportunities for her than it costs her.

She used the media attention to put out there that she was looking for employment opportunities. Hardly fits the idea being put forth that she bravely risked the loss of future employment - while it supports the idea that this incident is self-serving.

My favorite part of her interview with Evan Solomon:

BD:I don’t by any way think that the act of one person will change the Harper agenda but I think if millions of people in Canada decide to take action then that’s when we can stop this.

ES:Just for the record, millions of people just did decide to take action, we called it a Federal Election, and those are the results... link

Edited June 5, 2011 by American Woman

[ReeferMadness]

I am curious if those here who are so quick to the defence of Ms. DePape would still feel the same way if she held up a sign that read "Stop Abortion" or "Stop Immigration"? Or is it just the message you are defending and not the method of delivery.

I'm impressed by anyone who is willing to make a non-violent statement and accept the consequences so I'd say go for it.

However, it isn't quite the same. Harper has done more than any PM in living memory (probably than any PM ever) to cheapen and undermine our democratic institutions. So there is a certain logic and symmetry to using those same institutions to protest against Harper. It would be less apropos, in my view, if her sign said "No F35's" or "Money for poverty, not prisons".

Also it's incredibly ironic and hypocritical for people to accuse her of contempt of Parliament while the guy who was actually found to be in contempt of Parliament has the title of Prime Minister.

[Saipan]

Who do you think you are to judge this woman?

A taxpayer.

Perhaps if you had more intelligence, more wisdom and an open mind, you could learn from this woman.

What would that be? Rail against democratic elections?

[ReeferMadness]

Are you saying that people who are against this are unintelligent, unwise and closed-minded ?

Well, probably not all of them.

But certainly, when people think they can judge someone on the basis of a single action or a couple of sound bites I'd say that's good evidence of those characteristics.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, probably not all of them.

But certainly, when people think they can judge someone on the basis of a single action or a couple of sound bites I'd say that's good evidence of those characteristics.

I see. So you can judge their characteristics based on their responses to this one incident and that's fine and dandy - but they cannot judge her characteristics on the same basis.

She judged a lot of Canadians, speaking for them, proclaiming to know what they believe or support based solely on whether they voted conservative or not. Newsflash. People don't support everything in the party they voted for nor do they not support everything in the party(ies) they didn't vote for. She made a giant leap with her proclamations, presenting her beliefs as if it's fact.

[DogOnPorch]

I see. So you can judge their characteristics based on their responses to this one incident and that's fine and dandy - but they cannot judge her characteristics on the same basis.

She judged a lot of Canadians, speaking for them, proclaiming to know what they believe or support based solely on whether they voted conservative or not. Newsflash. People don't support everything in the party they voted for nor do they not support everything in the party(ies) they didn't vote for. She made a giant leap with her proclamations, presenting her beliefs as if it's fact.

...and she did it on the public's dime...which is what really pisses folks off.

[Guest American Woman]

...and she did it on the public's dime...which is what really pisses folks off.

And rightly so.

[Saipan]

I'm impressed by anyone who is willing to make a non-violent statement and accept the consequences so I'd say go for it.

So I guess you're even more impressesd by 33,000 firearm owners who went to Parliamennt Hill on their own dollar and time to protest peacefully. And being called all sorts of name even by CBC.

However, it isn't quite the same. Harper has done more than any PM in living memory (probably than any PM ever) to cheapen and undermine our democratic institutions.

Harper didn't choke any protester like Chretien. And he didn't declare Martial Law or sent tanks like Trudeau did. Harper is much too peacefull for my taste.

It would be less apropos, in my view, if her sign said "No F35's" or "Money for poverty, not prisons".

Most of the country doesn't have such leftist and Fifth Column views and that is why he's the PM.

the guy who was actually found to be in contempt of Parliament has the title of Prime Minister.

What "contempt"?

Edited June 5, 2011 by Saipan

[Michael Hardner]

So I guess you're even more impressesd by 33,000 firearm owners who went to Parliamennt Hill on their own dollar and time to protest peacefully. And being called all sorts of name even by CBC.

What did the CBC call them ?

[WWWTT]

Yes, the NDP is opposed to it. Last time around the opposition all united to block the Tories from going forward with this.

Ok you have me at a disadvantage now.

I am not completely clear on what has happened or was proposed in the past in regards to which province receives how many reps and their exact population numbers.

There are many numbers and ratios to crunch here.

I do remember hearing something about Alberta receiving more rep. in the past and that was frowned upon by the opposition for obvious reasons.But I would have to do some fact finding and research to properly make a decission on where I stand on this topic.

I only briefly used this topic as a small example and I am not currently prepared to give this topic the attention it deserves,nor is this the appropriate thread.

Please lets continue this debate in a more appropriately labeled thread and invite others who can contribute

Thank You

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

You are misrepresenting the issue.

This topic was started and lefty sychophant praised her for how "brave" she was. The responses have been in response to that rediculous assertion.

I have never bein called a sychophant before.

What's a sychophant?

WWWTT

[Saipan]

What did the CBC call them ?

From hicks, middle aged white males, to hillbillies and whole line of other names you could hear yourself in 1998. All lies.

How come 33,000 is a "bunch" and two hundred is "a mass demonstration"?

[Michael Hardner]

From hicks, middle aged white males, to hillbillies and whole line of other names you could hear yourself in 1998. All lies.

How come 33,000 is a "bunch" and two hundred is "a mass demonstration"?

So Peter Mansbridge called them hicks ? If not who ? Do you have a source ?

[Saipan]

So Peter Mansbridge called them hicks ? If not who ? Do you have a source ?

Whole collection from Wendy Cukier to all sorts of talking heads. CBC is smart enough not to use their more known personalities for that.

In other similar issues for example they let others do their deed. Before federal elections CBC had Michael Moore and Bill Clinton to tell us who to vote for. So CBC didn't really say anythng - it would be ILLEGAL.

But they didn't invite Charlton Heston or G.W. Bush before elections to tell us who to vote for either.

[Michael Hardner]

Whole collection from Wendy Cukier to all sorts of talking heads. CBC is smart enough not to use their more known personalities for that.

You're low on specifics. I won't ask you for more, then.

But they didn't invite Charlton Heston or G.W. Bush before elections to tell us who to vote for either.

Heston isn't doing well these days. My feeling is that an exhumed celebrity with clumps of dirt falling off him might be an "inconsistent visual brand identity" for the Conservatives.

[cybercoma]

The little bubblehead doesn't understand that the "Arab Spring" is made up of people who are fighting and dying for exactly what Canada just went through - democratic elections where the PEOPLE elect their government. This juvenile is the epitomy of the angry Left Wing who will only accept something if it agrees with their own view of the world. A sad spectacle.

Your derogatory and insulting tone aside, it very well is a fair comparison. They were fighting for democracy and our country desperately needs democratic reform. I don't need to read your reply that Harper got more votes than anyone else. The fact of the matter is that the other parties have very similar positions on the topics Ms. DePape brought up: military expansion, corporate tax and the environment. In this way, 60% of Canadians that voted, voted for policies that are directly opposed to Conservative policies in these areas. Nevertheless, FPTP has given Conservatives a majority mandate, with less than 40% of the vote, to pass their policies unchallenged. When you consider all eligible voters, only 25% of voters truly chose a Conservative government. While we can't speak for those who didn't vote, it's clear that our election is democratic, but definitely needs fixing. It will never happen because the Liberals reaped the benefits for years and now the Conservatives are reaping the benefits. They, as in all parties, will never touch something that is giving them power beyond their worth.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Heston isn't doing well these days. My feeling is that an exhumed celebrity with clumps of dirt falling off him might be an "inconsistent visual brand identity" for the Conservatives.

Reality check from America: Charlton Heston was cremated, not buried "in dirt".

[Michael Hardner]

Reality check from America: Charlton Heston was cremated, not buried "in dirt".

Ok - maybe a clear vase would have worked, with a voiceover from "Planet of the Apes" ?

[cybercoma]

So...let's grab some guns and take-over the government? No, thanks.

Hyperbole.

[Michael Hardner]

I'd like to point out another aspect of this that hasn't been mentioned: timing.

Harper hasn't done anything to alarm the middle-of-the-road voters who supported him. Wouldn't it have been better to wait until he was about to do something "scary" rather than announcing the protection of Rouge Park in Toronto ?