The Bible

[Michael Hardner]

Welcome back Betsy!

[betsy]

Welcome back Betsy!

Thanks Michael. I missed you guys believe it or not.

[kimmy]

betsy! I thought you had been raptured! Where have you been? Stuck in the belly of a whale? Wandering through the desert? Buried? It looks like you've been resurrected about 6 months behind schedule.

-k

[betsy]

betsy! I thought you had been raptured! Where have you been? Stuck in the belly of a whale? Wandering through the desert? Buried? It looks like you've been resurrected about 6 months behind schedule.

-k

I needed a break. Re-energize.

Are you ready?

[Guest Manny]

God's will needs no avengers.

[betsy]

God's will needs no avengers.

God's will, will always prevail.

[Shakeyhands]

betsy! I thought you had been raptured! Where have you been? Stuck in the belly of a whale? Wandering through the desert? Buried? It looks like you've been resurrected about 6 months behind schedule.

-k

I love you Kimmy.

[betsy]

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY DISCOVERES ANCIENT BETHLEHEM SEAL

It's about the size of a one penny piece, but its significance is huge.

Israeli archaeologists revealed today they have unearthed an incredible 2,700-year-old fragment that could prove the 'Bethlehem' as described in the Old Testament really existed.

The tiny artifact is part of an ancient seal that's believed to be the oldest object ever found with the name of Jesus' traditional birthplace inscribed on it.

According to experts, its existence provides vivid evidence that Bethlehem was not just the name of a fabled biblical town, but also a bustling place of trade linked to the nearby city of Jerusalem.

Eli Shukron, the authority's director of excavations, said the find was significant because it is the first time the name 'Bethlehem' appears outside of a biblical text from that period.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148896/Tiny-2-700-year-old-seal-unearthed-bears-Bethlehem-prove-birthplace-Jesus-bustling-market-town-described-Old-Testament.html#ixzz1vui8VDgZ

Edited May 25, 2012 by betsy

[kimmy]

FACT: ARCHEOLOGY DISCOVERES ANCIENT BETHLEHEM SEAL

I don't think there's anybody who doubts that Bethlehem was an actual place. People are just skeptical about this story that some virgin gave birth to a magic baby there, and finding a relic that proves Bethlehem existed centuries before this miraculous even will do little to convince people that it actually happened. Certainly it would be much more surprising if the authors had set this story in a place that *didn't* exist. After all, if I was writing a story I wanted people to believe, I would set it in Toronto or Phoenix or Prince George, not Minas Tirith or Winterfell or Gotham.

On a completely unrelated note, I've unearthed startling new proof that London, England is a real place, which should go a long way towards confirming my belief that the events described in the Harry Potter books are not fiction.

-k

[betsy]

I don't think there's anybody who doubts that Bethlehem was an actual place. People are just skeptical about this story that some virgin gave birth to a magic baby there, and finding a relic that proves Bethlehem existed centuries before this miraculous even will do little to convince people that it actually happened. Certainly it would be much more surprising if the authors had set this story in a place that *didn't* exist. After all, if I was writing a story I wanted people to believe, I would set it in Toronto or Phoenix or Prince George, not Minas Tirith or Winterfell or Gotham.

On a completely unrelated note, I've unearthed startling new proof that London, England is a real place, which should go a long way towards confirming my belief that the events described in the Harry Potter books are not fiction.

-k

I guess it's been dormant for quite a while so you must've forgotten about the whole point with these facts. Your comment above simply address this one incident - discovery of the seal of Bethlehem.

However, this fact is just but one of many facts that are listed here....all written in one ancient book.....all of which are supported by science.

Can you give me another ancient book that can equal the Bible in this regard?

[kimmy]

I guess it's been dormant for quite a while so you must've forgotten about the whole point with these facts. Your comment above simply address this one incident - discovery of the seal of Bethlehem.

However, this fact is just but one of many facts that are listed here....all written in one ancient book.....all of which are supported by science.

Can you give me another ancient book that can equal the Bible in this regard?

The scientific "facts" you've provided are really unimpressive. It takes willful suspension of disbelief to interpret any of the scientific "facts" you've provided as evidence that the Bible is the result of divine inspiration.

And the historical "facts" you've provided are equally unimpressive. Such-and-such was a real place? Of course it was. So what? Every fib and tall tale starts off in a real place.

Let's consider a few different facts:

Fact-- the Bible has been rewritten and retranslated and edited throughout its history.

Fact-- mankind has outgrown the barbaric "morality" laid out for us in the Bible.

Fact-- miracles have become awfully unimpressive with the advent of modern scientific method, communication, photography, and so on. God used to flood the entire earth, annihilate entire cities, transform people into salt, and all kinds of stuff like that. Now the best he can do is burn his son's face onto a grilled cheese sandwich or conjure toilet-water from the ground for Christians to drink.

Fact-- Christianity is, literally, the belief that you are so awful that God had to kill himself.

-k

[bleeding heart]

Fact-- Christianity is, literally, the belief that you are so awful that God had to kill himself.

-k

I've never heard it put quite that way.

[betsy]

The scientific "facts" you've provided are really unimpressive. It takes willful suspension of disbelief to interpret any of the scientific "facts" you've provided as evidence that the Bible is the result of divine inspiration.

And the historical "facts" you've provided are equally unimpressive. Such-and-such was a real place? Of course it was. So what? Every fib and tall tale starts off in a real place.

Let's consider a few different facts:

Fact-- the Bible has been rewritten and retranslated and edited throughout its history.

Fact-- mankind has outgrown the barbaric "morality" laid out for us in the Bible.

Fact-- miracles have become awfully unimpressive with the advent of modern scientific method, communication, photography, and so on. God used to flood the entire earth, annihilate entire cities, transform people into salt, and all kinds of stuff like that. Now the best he can do is burn his son's face onto a grilled cheese sandwich or conjure toilet-water from the ground for Christians to drink.

Fact-- Christianity is, literally, the belief that you are so awful that God had to kill himself.

-k

I guess that must mean you cannot find another ancient book similar to the Bible in this regard.

Edited May 29, 2012 by betsy

[kimmy]

I guess that must mean you cannot find another ancient book similar to the Bible in this regard.

I think that if we looked at any number of works by ancient philosophers, we could find more ideas with lasting merit. I think that if we looked at any number of works by ancient scholars, we could find more ideas that have made more lasting contributions to our understanding of the natural world.

As a science book, the Bible is full of fail.

As a moral guide, the Bible has a few nice ideas and an awful lot of bad ones.

-k

[betsy]

I think that if we looked at any number of works by ancient philosophers, we could find more ideas with lasting merit. I think that if we looked at any number of works by ancient scholars, we could find more ideas that have made more lasting contributions to our understanding of the natural world.

As a science book, the Bible is full of fail.

As a moral guide, the Bible has a few nice ideas and an awful lot of bad ones.

-k

Where did I say the Bible is a science book? Show me.

Lasting merit than the facts listed here? Let's see what examples you have.

Be specific.

Get back to me when you've got something.

Edited June 2, 2012 by betsy

[CANADIEN]

FACT - Troy existed, and there is evidence that it was destroyed as a result of a war. Somehow, it must mean the Olympian Gods existed

FACT - Mayan murals depicting scenes from the Popol Vuh have been found recently. Somehow, it must mean the Popol Vuh is a true account of the history of the world.

FACT - Some of the battles mentioned in the Mahabharata did actually occur. Somehow, this proves the existence of the Indian Gods.

FACT - Some of the places described in the Gilgamesh story did exist. Somehow, those stories must be fact, not fiction.

And I could go on and on.

Thank God (truly) He gave me faith. Because it is through faith one discovers God's truth, and understand the true meaning of His Word. If all I had was statements like "A seal bearing the name Bethlehem was discovered, therefore the Bible is the Word of God", I'd be an atheist.

[betsy]

FACT - Troy existed, and there is evidence that it was destroyed as a result of a war. Somehow, it must mean the Olympian Gods existed

FACT - Mayan murals depicting scenes from the Popol Vuh have been found recently. Somehow, it must mean the Popol Vuh is a true account of the history of the world.

FACT - Some of the battles mentioned in the Mahabharata did actually occur. Somehow, this proves the existence of the Indian Gods.

FACT - Some of the places described in the Gilgamesh story did exist. Somehow, those stories must be fact, not fiction.

And I could go on and on.

Thank God (truly) He gave me faith. Because it is through faith one discovers God's truth, and understand the true meaning of His Word. If all I had was statements like "A seal bearing the name Bethlehem was discovered, therefore the Bible is the Word of God", I'd be an atheist.

Well you've got faith! So do I! We both got faith! You and I have no problem in accepting the Bible as the Word of God.

But what about those who don't have it? Those who are searching for it? Those that are confused. Those that are skeptics about the truth in Christianity?

Those are the ones this topic is trying to address.

[BubberMiley]

I too have faith! But, like most, it's mainly because I'm interested in being self-righteous and judgemental.

[GostHacked]

But what about those who don't have it? Those who are searching for it? Those that are confused. Those that are skeptics about the truth in Christianity?

Is Christianity the only truth?

[guyser]

Is Christianity the only truth?

Well ,in court you do say at the end " so help me god" ....so it better be.

[kimmy]

Well you've got faith! So do I! We both got faith! You and I have no problem in accepting the Bible as the Word of God.

But what about those who don't have it? Those who are searching for it? Those that are confused. Those that are skeptics about the truth in Christianity?

Those are the ones this topic is trying to address.

I think what Canadien meant is that if all he had was your "facts" to convince him that the Bible is true, he wouldn't believe the Bible is true.

In short, your "facts" are terrible. They're embarrassingly bad. They're ridiculous. They're hilarious. Nothing you've presented in this vast entire thread does anything to provide evidence that your ancient desert chumps were the recipients of a gift of divine knowledge. Maybe there are good reasons to believe... but this thread doesn't contain any of them.

I just can't be bothered to go back through 1200 posts of this stuff to review your "facts", but I think they were pretty easily dismissed as soon as you posted them. However, if there are any "facts" you've provided that you don't think have received enough ridicule, bring it to my attention and I'll heap more derision on it.

I guess that must mean you cannot find another ancient book similar to the Bible in this regard.

The ancient Greeks were producing real, actual facts in the fields of science and math long before the Bible was compiled. You gush over the idea that the Bible reports the earth was a "circle" (although, considering they had a word for sphere and chose not to use it, that might not be much to brag about.) Meanwhile, Eratosthenes not only called the earth a sphere, but also calculated its diameter, as well as its distance from the sun and the moon, with surprising accuracy. Archimedes wrote several books, each containing mathematical and scientific discoveries that are still significant. Likewise Aristotle's work in several fields. That's just a quick handful of names from just one ancient civilization. Someone with a broader background in history than I possess could provide you a much more detailed answer to that question, but my response here is good enough to answer your challenge. While your guys were certainly the undisputed experts at harvesting foreskins from their foes, the Greeks certainly contributed far more to our understanding of our natural world.

-k

Edited June 6, 2012 by kimmy

[Michael Hardner]

Well ,in court you do say at the end " so help me god" ....so it better be.

That practice is going away... I was recently in court and given the option to "affirm".

[GostHacked]

That practice is going away... I was recently in court and given the option to "affirm".

Meh, either way still waiting for Betsy to 'man-up' and say Christianity is the only truth. There was truth long before Christianity.

[guyser]

That practice is going away... I was recently in court and given the option to "affirm".

Have not been in court for years....thus had no idea.

Good for them, about time.

[Guest American Woman]

Meh, either way still waiting for Betsy to 'man-up' and say Christianity is the only truth. There was truth long before Christianity.

How is saying "Christianity is the only truth" any different from saying that "there is no God" is the only truth? Hint. It's not.