The beginning signs of a Conservative revolt aginst Harper?

[Harry]

Of all the braindead things to have done, and at the worst possible time for Harper. But those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

Conservative operative’s dismissal raises ire within party ranks

OTTAWA—Facing charges of political sabotage by the powerful head of Sun Media Corporation, the Conservative Party has denied wrongdoing but cut ties with a key political strategist.

The move was made to distance the Stephen Harper campaign from what Sun Media mogul Pierre Karl Peladeau claimed was a dirty trick — the leak of an incriminating photo and damaging information that said Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff had aided U.S. military planners in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion. The photo, forwarded to Sun Media vice-president Kory Teneycke — another former Harper aide — wasn’t of Ignatieff.

The strategist, Patrick Muttart, did not comment Wednesday. But sources close to him said he is “furious” at having been cavalierly tossed aside by the Harper campaign.

Rattled Conservative insiders, who spoke only on background, said Muttart, a former deputy chief of staff to Stephen Harper and senior political operative, was treated badly by both the party and the Sun. Some blamed campaign director Guy Giorno.

Giorno has clashed with Muttart, and is believed to be the force behind Harper’s decision to let Muttart go now.

A Conservative party source said that while some thought getting rid of Muttart was a good thing, there are people inside the campaign who “are pissed about how he was treated.

“Now, at exactly the time in your campaign when you do not need any dissension and you need everybody to be of one mind, you’ve got disharmony and unhappiness in your team. That is the problem, more than the loss of the skill set,” said the source.

Jason Lietaer, a Conservative campaign spokesman, denied Muttart had behaved improperly in forwarding the information and dubious photo to Sun Media, and flatly denied the Conservative campaign had any intention to undermine Sun Network’s credibility.

Still, he said Muttart, key architect behind the party’s election victories in 2006 and 2008, would have “no further role” in the Conservative campaign.

Muttart had worked on contract with the 2011 campaign, mostly from his Chicago home base where he has worked for an American public affairs firm since 2009, returning occasionally to Ottawa as needed.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/981291--conservative-operative-s-dismissal-raises-ire-within-party-ranks?bn=1

[Topaz]

I've heard from a person who is friends with a person who works for a Tory member, and some of the party don't like the way Harper has used the fear fact on the campaign and how he runs the government at times. Perhaps that is why so many of them have left the party, even McKay was thought of looking for different work. This is nothing against the party as much as it is about Harper himself, the party won't last when you have a dictator as leader,and a leader voters don't trust, any were in the world.

[PIK]

I've heard from a person who is friends with a person who works for a Tory member, and some of the party don't like the way Harper has used the fear fact on the campaign and how he runs the government at times. Perhaps that is why so many of them have left the party, even McKay was thought of looking for different work. This is nothing against the party as much as it is about Harper himself, the party won't last when you have a dictator as leader,and a leader voters don't trust, any were in the world.

I heard from a friend of a friend of a brother in law's cousins step sister that ,that is wrong.And the fear factor has been used steady against harper and the cons for the last 5 years. I hear harper talking about the staying the course and keeping a eye on the economy, all I hear from the liberals is a tru fear campaign, and nothing but pure BS from jack.

[Michael Hardner]

When if ever has there been a successful revolt against a PM who wins election after election ?

[ToadBrother]

When if ever has there been a successful revolt against a PM who wins election after election ?

Since almost all "wins" lead to majority governments, I'm not sure the usual rule applies here. What Tories will be asking themselves as Harper's third election ends in a minority government is if the ceiling they keep hitting is just a natural outcome of current electoral demographics, or if the party leadership is the cause. What's more, it is quite possible that Harper is going to have to negotiate some sort of detente with someone else in Parliament to prevent his "win" from turning into a loss come the Throne Speech, and I would imagine the more doctrinaire members of the party are going to have a hard time swallowing that.

If Harper does not get a majority this time out, despite any technical win, his position will be on much shakier ground.

[scribblet]

Well, I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend, that there are no signs of a revolt, just an opposition whisper campaign.

[TTM]

When if ever has there been a successful revolt against a PM who wins election after election ?

Chretien. And Harper has never actually won an election.

[ToadBrother]

Chretien. And Harper has never actually won an election.

I still think Chretien let himself be pushed out. I think he knew what was coming towards the Liberals, and made the decision to leave so that he wouldn't have to deal with it. I don't blame the guy, he'd spent most of his life in politics and didn't want to fight that fight and lead his party to defeat.

[PIK]

I still think Chretien let himself be pushed out. I think he knew what was coming towards the Liberals, and made the decision to leave so that he wouldn't have to deal with it. I don't blame the guy, he'd spent most of his life in politics and didn't want to fight that fight and lead his party to defeat.

He was pushed out and it put his nose out of joint and he then changed the finance rules that killed his party. So really chretien is what did in the party not dion or iggy.

[Harry]

The cracks are continuing to show in the Cons solidarity.

Believe me if I was that campaign manager I would tell Harper to keep away - mean, angry Harper is the kiss of death now. Smart fella.

Want to welcome Harper?

'Let me think about it,' Tory official says

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Vote2011/1240558.html

Edited April 28, 2011 by Harry

[noahbody]

He was pushed out and it put his nose out of joint and he then changed the finance rules that killed his party. So really chretien is what did in the party not dion or iggy.

I heard an interview with Chretien in which he said he was contemplating not running for re-election. Then they tried to force him out so he said 'screw you' and ran again.

The sponsorship scandal killed the party. Lost support made them try to make their tent bigger, moving the party to the left, weakening their brand. Dion/Ignatieff/Rae and the Green Shift just cemented their fate. With the rise of the NDP the Liberals will now move closer to the centre. My guess is John Manly will be the next Liberal leader and PM after Harper. While in opposition, he and Harper will work well together.

[Harry]

Interesting that Harper is winning the battle but looks like he is losing the war by accomplishing his mission of destroying the Liberals. In the process he severely underestimated the NDP and has blown any chance for a majority, and probably a minority as well.

Harper's 'Visceral Hate' for Liberals

From day one it drove his strategy to 'break the brand' of Canada's reigning centrist party

David Emerson, the former British Columbia MP, had the rare opportunity of serving in the cabinets of both Paul Martin and Stephen Harper, and was thus well positioned to see the contrasts.

He found the Harper operation so efficient, so disciplined compared to the scattershot Liberals of Paul Martin. But he couldn't fathom the intense level of acrimony. He had never seen this kind of thing with the Liberals. But with Harper and his men, it was woven deep. Emerson spoke of them as "viscerally hating their political opposition. Sometimes it was just startling to me."

Liberal MP Keith Martin, who also served in both parties, standing as a candidate for the Alliance leadership in 2000, found the same as Emerson -- politicians who had been in an environment "that has bred a hatred" towards the traditional Liberal way. Because of the pronounced influence of religion in the party, he found it strange. He understood that Liberals had positions that ran counter to their own. "But why do they hate them?"

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/04/28/HarpersVisceralHate/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=280411

Edited April 28, 2011 by Harry

[Keepitsimple]

Harry.....your polls are getting childish. You're obviously having a grand time but you're cluttering up the forum.

[fellowtraveller]

I've heard from a person who is friends with a person who works for a Tory member

Hey, I know that guy too! Wears blue jeans and drives a car? That's him!

[Scotty]

Interesting that Harper is winning the battle but looks like he is losing the war by accomplishing his mission of destroying the Liberals. In the process he severely underestimated the NDP and has blown any chance for a majority, and probably a minority as well.

Hmm, Look at how pissed off Iggy is over the way he's been demonized by the Tories.

Now picture being a Reform->Alliance->Conservative MP, and being demonized as every nasty thing under the sun for decades by the Liberals, who never missed an opportunity for a drive-by smear. As ye sow, so shall ye reap, eh?

[Rick]

The Conservative revolt against Harper started a while ago and it began with his own former so-con friends whom he abandoned

When the "Prinicpled Conservatives" freepers have lost all faith in Harper and are openly voting anyone BUT Harper...the knives are already sharpened. Harper's loyal lackeys will still follow him blindly while those who know his best before time has long expired will want a new face that Canadians will trust, respect and actually like

Expect to see a divide similar to the Chretien Libs vs the Martin camp...

[Rick]

Hmm, Look at how pissed off Iggy is over the way he's been demonized by the Tories.

Now picture being a Reform->Alliance->Conservative MP, and being demonized as every nasty thing under the sun for decades by the Liberals, who never missed an opportunity for a drive-by smear. As ye sow, so shall ye reap, eh?

Harper reaped what he sowed.

People simply do not like or respect Harper because of his contemptuous, lying, hateful and arrorant ways..

Edited April 28, 2011 by Rick

[capricorn]

Hmm, Look at how pissed off Iggy is over the way he's been demonized by the Tories.

A combative Michael Ignatieff has stepped up criticisms of his political rivals, saying Jack Layton is “getting a free ride” and telling Conservatives “they can go to hell.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/981662--combative-ignatieff-says-tories-can-go-to-hell?bn=1

Tsk, tsk.

[ToadBrother]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/981662--combative-ignatieff-says-tories-can-go-to-hell?bn=1

Tsk, tsk.

Frankly I kind of feel sorry for Iggy. He's like the coach of a team about to be eliminated, and there's just no way to contain the anger, misery and despair of it all.

[Rick]

A combative Michael Ignatieff has stepped up criticisms of his political rivals, telling Conservatives “they can go to hell.”

Good on Iggy for speaking his mind for once. We need more straight forward, shoot from the hip talk and less of the "let me be clear" Harper bs'ing everyone once again talk that has dominated the political landscape for the past 5+ years.

I might not support his politics but that is the one thing I liked about Randy Hillier ( Ontario Progressive Conservative maverick MPP) who too was never afraid to speak his mind.

Same for Chretien and Trudeau who both weren't afraid to tell it like it is...

[Mr.Canada]

Harry. The NDP are only experiencing a boost in the recent national poll numbers because of whats happening in Quebec. They still in third place in every province west of Quebec except for BC where they are second behind the Tories. No amount of partisan posting will change that today.

As far as Harper is concerned, we're relatively happy with him for now. If he wins a majority he'll be around until a year before the next election. If he wins a minority again he'll step down after a year. Savvy?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[nittanylionstorm07]

Harry. The NDP are only experiencing a boost in the recent national poll numbers because of whats happening in Quebec. They still in third place in every province west of Quebec except for BC where they are second behind the Tories. No amount of partisan posting will change that today.

As far as Harper is concerned, we're relatively happy with him for now. If he wins a majority he'll be around until a year before the next election. If he wins a minority again he'll step down after a year. Savvy?

You clearly have not been paying attention. The NDP has been running a close second in Sask/Man, and have been increasing their second place status in Alberta. Also, its good to see you completely left out Atlantic Canada where recent polls have them inching into first.

[ToadBrother]

Harry. The NDP are only experiencing a boost in the recent national poll numbers because of whats happening in Quebec. They still in third place in every province west of Quebec except for BC where they are second behind the Tories. No amount of partisan posting will change that today.

The polling suggests quite the opposite, that there does appear to be a wave moving across the rest of the country. There is no firm evidence of movement in Ontario yet, but we still have a few days. At the very least I think a majority is out of the question for the Tories and it's likely the Liberals will be bumped to third place.

As far as Harper is concerned, we're relatively happy with him for now. If he wins a majority he'll be around until a year before the next election. If he wins a minority again he'll step down after a year. Savvy?

Unless the Opposition decides he needs to go in a few weeks.

[Wild Bill]

The polling suggests quite the opposite, that there does appear to be a wave moving across the rest of the country. There is no firm evidence of movement in Ontario yet, but we still have a few days. At the very least I think a majority is out of the question for the Tories and it's likely the Liberals will be bumped to third place.

Maybe yes, maybe no, TB! I still think a Tory majority is a possibility. It will depend on vote splits in Ontario, which the NDP surge will surely help!

So I wouldn't totally write the idea off. I think we can agree that the Liberals are going to lose, big time! The big question will be, how many will go to the NDP and how many blue Liberals still exist that might go to the Tories?

Even more basic, how much of the Liberal and NDP support will actually come out and vote? Both of those parties have never brought out their vote nearly as well as the Tories. The Tories have the advantage of conscientious older folks raised on the idea of civic duty.

We shall see on Monday! If I am wrong I will cheerfully admit it and if Harry, Rick and others are proven wrong I will take great amusement in reminding them of their predictions!

[ToadBrother]

Maybe yes, maybe no, TB! I still think a Tory majority is a possibility. It will depend on vote splits in Ontario, which the NDP surge will surely help!

I cannot believe that anything beyond the wildest statistical fluke could give the Tories a majority if they're in the mid-30s. It's hypothetically possible, but I just don't see it happening, particularly as support is now being seen to soften elsewhere in the country.

Betting on a Tory majority if they can't get themselves up into the high-30s at the very least is akin to betting on winning the lottery. You're betting on a statistical anomaly.