game of thrones

[-1=e^ipi]

I do think that there is a decent possibility that Sandor will eventually get revenge on his brother, but I don't see it happening in the trial by combat.

The main reason for this is 'plot armor'. If the mountain loses his trial by combat that means Cersei would die way too soon, even before Tommen dies. Not to mention how it would affect Qyburn's story line and Jamie's story line.

Tommen has to die before Cersei dies. Maybe the Sand Snakes will assassinate him.

Once Tommen dies, Margery will no longer have a reason to stay in King's Landing, so she will return to high garden and marry Littlefinger's gift (Gendry), and then Margery will be able to claim the iron throne again.

Of course after Tommen dies, as Jamie is no longer king's guard, I think that he is heir to the Iron Throne now due to some distant Baratheon relation, so Jamie might claim the iron throne.

This will also fit in better with the story line in the North. Once Petyr defeats the Boltons, he'll become Warden of the North and he'll join Sansa and liberate the riverlands. At some point it will be difficult for Petyr to remain in good relations with the Lannisters/Crown, but fortunately for Petyr Tommen will be dead by then so the Lannisters can't take away any of his titles. At which point Petyr will align the North/Riverlands/Vale with the Reach/Stormlands and support Margery/Gendry on the iron throne. As Gendry and Margery are both popular with the common people, they might be able to defeat the high sparrow and take back King's Landing. Petyr aligning the North with the Reach would also help fit in with Sam's story line.

Around this time, Daenerys will be landing in Westeros with her Dothraki/Unsullied/Dragon/Ironborne/Mercenary army, probably in Dorne, although maybe in the Reach/Stormlands. If Cersei is dead by now (maybe Jamie kills her before she tries to burn down king's landing with wild fire), as Jamie and Bronn still have good relations with Tyrion, the Lannisters will likely side with Daenerys. I think Dorne will side with Daenerys, but it may require regime change first. Not to mention Pentos and perhaps other Free Cities like Lys (due to Varys connection) and Volantis (after being invaded) will support Daenerys. Although Bravos and the Iron Bank will likely support the North due to their loan to Stannis and relationship with Petyr.

Things seem to be leading up to the creation of two massive factions: North/Wildlings/Riverlands/Vale/Reach/Stormlands/Bravos vs Westerlands/Dorne/Dothraki/Dragons/Unsullied/Freecities/Ironborne, which will engage in a massive war to control the iron throne. This will also give us Littlefinger vs Varys. Towards the end of the war the others will break down the wall and start heading south. Eventually the 2 sides will agree to peace due to the others and come together to defeat them.

As for Loras, I meant that he will fight for himself against the accusations that he is gay. He will fight against the 7.

[kimmy]

http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/cleganebowl-sandor-clegane-hound-game-of-thrones-explained.html

Why would Loras fight for the 7? He's been imprisioned by them.

Lancel isn't a fighter. In previous seasons he was portrayed as a feckless figure.

Good column... the idea that returning to violence would be a step backward in Sandor's character development is an interesting one, but I'm not sure it's correct. What was the last thing he did last night? He picked up an axe, and I don't think he was off to cut more wood. I think his character arc is less about leaving violence behind, and more about leaving behind bitterness and hate and self-loathing. Despite what he thinks of himself, there's a hero inside there, and the only think keeping that hero from getting out is Sandor himself. His conversation with Ian McShane last night-- "if there are gods, why haven't they punished me?" "They have." The pastor-- with his own violent past-- understood all the hurt and regret and shame and remorse Sandor carries around, and he was telling him to leave it behind. Stop punishing yourself and become the man you could be, instead of the man you used to be. I think that's Sandor's real character arc.

Loras... perhaps Loras would fight the Mountain if it were his "atonement"... he gets out of prison without having to do the "walk" or face any further punishment. Loras is one of the premier knights in Westeros, and would probably have a better chance than most against the Mountain... perhaps as much as the Red Viper.

As for Lancel... as an able-bodied young nobleman, Lancel has presumably had plenty of training with a sword. That said, if Lancel has any particular skill at arms, it's never been mentioned on the show. We do know that Lancel has killed one of the great warriors in the history of Westeros. All Lancel needs is a flagon of poisoned wine and an angry boar, and the Mountain is as good as done.

But maybe the Sparrow has an another angle. He knows Cersei can demand a trial by combat, and he knows she has a gigantic man-beast to fight on her behalf. Surely he has put some thought into this predicament. Surely he's not going to let her get away that easily.

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

As for Lancel... as an able-bodied young nobleman, Lancel has presumably had plenty of training with a sword. That said, if Lancel has any particular skill at arms, it's never been mentioned on the show.

But Lancel has the gods on his side. So he can't possibly lose! Plus he is the main witness to Cersei's crimes, such as murder of Robert, incest, adultery, etc., so he might want to defend his honor.

[kimmy]

I do think that there is a decent possibility that Sandor will eventually get revenge on his brother, but I don't see it happening in the trial by combat.

The main reason for this is 'plot armor'. If the mountain loses his trial by combat that means Cersei would die way too soon, even before Tommen dies. Not to mention how it would affect Qyburn's story line and Jamie's story line.

Tommen has to die before Cersei dies. Maybe the Sand Snakes will assassinate him.

This is an excellent point. The witch's prophecy said that Cersei will outlive her 3 children... and it's been on the money about everything else that has happened to Cersei.

-k

[Boges]

The guys who killed Brother Ray's group are the Brotherhood without Banners. We saw them in Season 2 and 3 I believe. They follow the Lord of Light (Resurrection?)

It's clear they've been killing Frey's. Why is that?

If the Hound does go after the Brotherhood, there's speculation that we'll finally see Lady Stoneheart.

For those that are new to the thread, LSH it's the resurrected Catelyn Stark but more in a zombified form than Jon Snow or Beric Dondarian.

[Guest]

The guys who killed Brother Ray's group are the Brotherhood without Banners. We saw them in Season 2 and 3 I believe. They follow the Lord of Light (Resurrection?)

It's clear they've been killing Frey's. Why is that?

If the Hound does go after the Brotherhood, there's speculation that we'll finally see Lady Stoneheart.

For those that are new to the thread, LSH it's the resurrected Catelyn Stark but more in a zombified form than Jon Snow or Beric Dondarian.

Sandor killed Dondarian once, maybe he's off to do it again. This time I suggest he kills the drunken priest first.

[Guest]

Hey while watching episode 7 I didn't catch the fact that the Iron Born stopped for R&R in Volantis. They sailed from the Iron Islands in the west, all the way south past Oldtown, around Dorne and then to Volantis in that amount of time? Does that seem quick to anyone else?

That's potentially good news for Daenerys as Yara and crew could get her entire army to Kings Landing in 30 minutes tops.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Guest

[Boges]

Hey while watching episode 7 I didn't catch the fact that the Iron Born stopped for R&R in Volantis. They sailed from the Iron Islands in the west, all the way south past Oldtown, around Dorne and then to Volantis in that amount of time? Does that seem quick to anyone else?

That's potentially good news for Daenerys as Yara and crew could get her entire army to Kings Landing in 30 minutes tops.

That's been going on all season.

- Little Finger is in the Vale, next episode his army is Moat Cailin and he's in Mole's Town.

- Sansa leaves Winterfell and is at the Wall next we see her.

- Theon leaves them and the next time we see him he's already in the Iron Island.

- Jamie is banished from King's Land, next we see him he's in the Riverlands

- Oh and Jon, Sansa and Davo's montage of trying to build an army, they did a tour of the North all contained in one episode.

Remember how long it took Brienne/Pod and Arya/House to get to the Vale. Clearly there's a new LRT system in Westeros.

Then again, we don't have to assume all these events are happening at exactly the same time.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Boges

[Guest]

Luckily, little finger has an entire episode to get the knights of the Vale on the LRT to Winterfell before the battle of bastards in episode 9.

[overthere]

I actually like how they move the plot along without showing us every step of the journey. How could they, with such a complex story?

[Bonam]

Except for the Daenerys storyline. For her, they have to show every meter of desert that they walk across.

[overthere]

Except for the Daenerys storyline. For her, they have to show every meter of desert that they walk across.

Not really. Did we see her or Tyrion at all last episiode?

[Boges]

Not really. Did we see her or Tyrion at all last episiode?

It's taken her awhile to get back to Mereen. We had that useless scene with the Dragon that didn't ad to the plot at all. She already had Dothraki support.

[overthere]

It's taken her awhile to get back to Mereen. We had that useless scene with the Dragon that didn't ad to the plot at all. She already had Dothraki support.

It is a long walk/ride and we have seen her only once. Maybe they needed to nail down the points that the Dothraki were willing to get on the ships(which they had always feared, and Dany does not yet know are en route and at her service) and that the dragon(s) were under her thumb, which the Dothraki had not actually seen before.

But I think they do a masterful job overall of telling a very complex story. Can you imagine somebody who has never seen GOT sitting down at this juncture and understanding any of it? Can you imagine anybody who has followed it from the beginning leaving the show now?

[Boges]

It is a long walk/ride and we have seen her only once. Maybe they needed to nail down the points that the Dothraki were willing to get on the ships(which they had always feared, and Dany does not yet know are en route and at her service) and that the dragon(s) were under her thumb, which the Dothraki had not actually seen before.

But I think they do a masterful job overall of telling a very complex story. Can you imagine somebody who has never seen GOT sitting down at this juncture and understanding any of it? Can you imagine anybody who has followed it from the beginning leaving the show now?

You could say that about many serialized dramas though. It's a long journey from beginning to end.

GoT has so many different story lines though. But they move fluidly with different story arcs meeting up. The fact that there are so many characters and destinations makes each episode packed with interesting stuff and the hour goes by in no time. Very little wasted screen time.

We see that paying off this season with characters long lost coming back: Wader Frey, the Blackfish, the Dothroki, Benjen Stark, Yara Greyjoy, The Hound, The Brothers Without Banners and I think, based on the preview, you'll see Gendry showing up this coming week. Though I seriously doubt we'll see him looking to take the throne like member -1=e^ipi insists.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Boges

[kimmy]

I think the old "Chekhov's Rifle" adage of writing is starting to come into play. The playwright said something to the effect that "you don't put a rifle on the stage unless it's going to be fired." (single greatest Chekhov's Rifle fail in the history of writing: Itchy, Scratchy, and Poochy never did get to the fireworks factory.)

For most of the past 5+ seasons, GRRM has been dressing the stage with a variety of rifles, leaving us wondering when and how they're going to be fired. Now, with just a little over 2 seasons left, we are starting to see some things starting to converge.

Random thought: A man told the waif to be sure that Arya didn't suffer. The waif could have killed Arya instantly and painlessly... but instead decided to savage her stomach with "bleed out" type wounds that would cause a lot of pain and an agonizing death. The waif was deliberately disobedient, and appears to have acted out of jealousy and spite... surely not the actions of a girl who has become "no one". We saw her jealousy of Arya in previous episodes as well. I wonder if the waif will face consequences for that.

-k

[Boges]

There are theories that the Waif is a Tyler Durden from Fight Club. She's not real.

She beats Arya up in public and no one reacts. She makes Arya bleed out and no does anything. Only Jaquen Hagar sees her.

She represents and internal struggle in Arya.

Not saying I believe it, but just saying what's I've been hearing and reading.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Boges

[kimmy]

There are theories that the Waif is a Tyler Durden from Fight Club. She's not real.

AAAGH WTF THANKS FOR SPOILING FIGHT CLUB FOR ME YOU SON OF A

haha, sorry.

She beats Arya up in public and no one reacts. She makes Arya bleed out and no does anything. Only Jaquen Hagar sees her.

She represents and internal struggle in Arya.

Not saying I believe it, but just saying what's I've been hearing and reading.

That's actually a fascinating idea. I'm not sure if I believe it either, but something definitely seems "off" about the waif.

We have seen the waif interacting with Jaquen Hgar when Arya is not around, and we have seen the waif being told information that could have helped Arya, so I'm not sure it adds up.

-k

[-1=e^ipi]

based on the preview, you'll see Gendry showing up this coming week.

I see no Gendry in the preview.

[Boges]

I see no Gendry in the preview.

NM it's Podrick

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillaume/sorry-but-thats-not-gendry?utm_term=.hlZ4e4LNn#.pn2p1pP8e

[Boges]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/08/game-thrones-season-6-finale

So Episode 9 will be called "Battle of Bastards" which confirms it'll be the Bastard Bowl. And entire episode devoted to the Battle? Like the Blackwater and the Battle for Castle Black? Hopefully.

The 10th episode will be called Winds of Winter. Which is the name of the yet released 6th book. It'll be 69 minutes long.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Boges

[-1=e^ipi]

Gendry Baratheon and Queen Margery will sit on the iron throne... next season.

[Guest]

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/08/game-thrones-season-6-finale

So Episode 9 will be called "Battle of Bastards" which confirms it'll be the Bastard Bowl. And entire episode devoted to the Battle? Like the Blackwater and the Battle for Castle Black? Hopefully.

The 10th episode will be called Winds of Winter. Which is the name of the yet released 6th book. It'll be 69 minutes long.

The Battle of Bastards has been know about for quite some time. Though it has been revealed that it will be the largest battle sequence to date. Which is rather impressive considering the large sequences that have already taken place, like the Blackwater and Castle Black. I enjoy epic battles, but I suspect many will complain as the plot does not get advanced during that type of episode.

[Bonam]

Gendry Baratheon and Queen Margery will sit on the iron throne... next season.

I don't get the fascination fans have with Gendry. I think he was just a throwaway character.

[Boges]

Also the Baratheon name doesn't mean a whole lot right now. Tommen is only a Baratheon by name. No one really believes he's not a full Lannister. Robert, Renly and Stannis are all dead. All relevant players in Robert's Rebellion are out of the loop or dead. And the throne is currently controlled by the Faith Militant and not the Lannisters.

And should a bastard of Robert appear attempting to claim the throne, who's going to rally behind him? The Starks?

Edited June 11, 2016 by Boges