RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 A real socially conservative party won't win anything in Canada. Pulling the Conservative party to the right, or starting a far-right alternative, is just going to guarantee Liberal victories for a long time. -k And yet again I wonder if a, using the US definition, libertarian type could do the job? I know it would help the country, but could the entitlement expecting electorate see past their petty little short term wants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I really hope no one is being tricked by Stevie and his sweater vest. There is no doubt he'll take Canada down the American-Conservative road should he be elected. Yep. The Liberals are starting to use the American- card, and the Republican-card The president of the Liberal Party used those words today at Power and Politics. Will they try to dig up the Bush-card, I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 And yet again I wonder if a, using the US definition, libertarian type could do the job? I know it would help the country, but could the entitlement expecting electorate see past their petty little short term wants? Libertarians can barely get elected in the US. And how is Libertarianism better for anybody, other than the rich, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I suspect you maybe right... After 10 years,we just might see Harper pull a Harris and Mulroney and slink off to let his successor take the elctoral brunt of what he probably will have coming to him.... aaaand what about Chretien? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 And yet again I wonder if a, using the US definition, libertarian type could do the job? I know it would help the country, but could the entitlement expecting electorate see past their petty little short term wants? Libertarians are the useful idiots of the conservative movement...A party like that would be like hearding cats... But go for it...Please!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 aaaand what about Chretien? Him too... However,in Mulroney and Harris' cases,they knew they were universally loathed and a millstone aroung their party's neck... Chretien just kinda faded into the background and let Martin hang himself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Libertarians are the useful idiots of the conservative movement...A party like that would be like hearding cats... But go for it...Please!!! Mr. Weber, sir, please get past the wingnut Canadian Libertarian Party blatt and study up a little bit on the philosphy of the US branch. Great stuff. Your obvious socialistic bent makes me suspect that you aren't able to intellectually examine their cread, but I guess I can always hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Mr. Weber, sir, please get past the wingnut Canadian Libertarian Party blatt and study up a little bit on the philosphy of the US branch. Great stuff. Your obvious socialistic bent makes me suspect that you aren't able to intellectually examine their cread, but I guess I can always hope. Libertarians are not cohesive...It's been proven time and time again...It's one of the reasons why the Confederacy (thanfully) lost the US Civil War..Ironically,it's the Leftist libertarians that had a large role to play in the Republican loss in the Spanish Civil War... Libertarians,by nature,are very individualistic...They will walk away from something they don't like rather than stick things out... However,the political right loves to play to libertarian idealism of individual freedom because you folks will always hold out for the carrot of personal freedom they dangle in front of you...Even though there's little or no intention of ever following through with it... As I said,useful idiots!!! I reralize that the very best someone like you can do is try to (erroneously) lable someone who is not as far to the right as you a "socialist"...I'd ask you to show me,other than my pro organized labour stance,where Ian "socialist"...But your search would be in vain... And your lack of historical knowledge proves you do not have the intellectual capacity to argue your point with me.. Perhaps moving to Montana would be a better way to go for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Libertarians are not cohesive...It's been proven time and time again...It's one of the reasons why the Confederacy (thanfully) lost the US Civil War..Ironically,it's the Leftist libertarians that had a large role to play in the Republican loss in the Spanish Civil War... Libertarians,by nature,are very individualistic...They will walk away from something they don't like rather than stick things out... However,the political right loves to play to libertarian idealism of individual freedom because you folks will always hold out for the carrot of personal freedom they dangle in front of you...Even though there's little or no intention of ever following through with it... As I said,useful idiots!!! I reralize that the very best someone like you can do is try to (erroneously) lable someone who is not as far to the right as you a "socialist"...I'd ask you to show me,other than my pro organized labour stance,where Ian "socialist"...But your search would be in vain... And your lack of historical knowledge proves you do not have the intellectual capacity to argue your point with me.. Perhaps moving to Montana would be a better way to go for you? Be nice Jack, he called you Mr. Weber, you don't usually get that much respect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Be nice Jack, he called you Mr. Weber, you don't usually get that much respect... I don't usually give that much respect to Albertan oil pumpers... He's lucky I was that nice and polite... And because he called me Mr.Weber,I gave him irrefutable historical evidence from the Right and the Left that demonstrates the folly of giving in to libertarians everywhere... See...I can debate in "friendship" even when someone calls me a "socialist"... Edited April 5, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Libertarians are not cohesive...It's been proven time and time again...It's one of the reasons why the Confederacy (thanfully) lost the US Civil War..Ironically,it's the Leftist libertarians that had a large role to play in the Republican loss in the Spanish Civil War... Libertarians,by nature,are very individualistic...They will walk away from something they don't like rather than stick things out... However,the political right loves to play to libertarian idealism of individual freedom because you folks will always hold out for the carrot of personal freedom they dangle in front of you...Even though there's little or no intention of ever following through with it... As I said,useful idiots!!! I reralize that the very best someone like you can do is try to (erroneously) lable someone who is not as far to the right as you a "socialist"...I'd ask you to show me,other than my pro organized labour stance,where Ian "socialist"...But your search would be in vain... And your lack of historical knowledge proves you do not have the intellectual capacity to argue your point with me.. Perhaps moving to Montana would be a better way to go for you? Libertarians and the civil war? You are really stretching it, you intellectual genius. Libertarians as socialists? now that moves into the dumb zone. But carry on, and always keep that post count up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Libertarians and the civil war? You are really stretching it, you intellectual genius. Libertarians as socialists? now that moves into the dumb zone. But carry on, and always keep that post count up. Really... You don't think the individual liberty angle the South craved was'nt one of the many factors in the South's defeat?? You require a history lesson... And it's clear you think the libertarian ethos is only the domain of the political right... You require another history lesson plus a Political Science lesson.... Look up Anarcho-Syndicalists and Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War... Here's a hint...Anarcho-Syndicalists eschewed the violence and authoritarianism of the Marxists on the Republican side... You are right,though...Your limited historical knowledge DOES indeed put you in the "dumb zone"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) Really... You don't think the individual liberty angle the South craved was'nt one of the many factors in the South's defeat?? You require a history lesson... And it's clear you think the libertarian ethos is only the domain of the political right... You require another history lesson plus a Political Science lesson.... Look up Anarcho-Syndicalists and Barcelona during the Spanish Civil War... Here's a hint...Anarcho-Syndicalists eschewed the violence and authoritarianism of the Marxists on the Republican side... You are right,though...Your limited historical knowledge DOES indeed put you in the "dumb zone"... Again, I suspect we are having a semantic disagreement. Have you looked at recent US Libertarian positions. They are so far from what you are listing as to be a joke. Perhaps there was some movement called libertarian in the deep, dark past that you refer to, but it has no relationship to the current US brand of Libertarian. Study up a little on Ron Paul. And keep heaping shit on me, I love it. What a debater!!!1!! Edited April 5, 2011 by RNG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Again, I suspect we are having a semantic disagreement. Have you looked at recent US Libertarian positions. They are so far from what you are listing as to be a joke. Perhaps there was some movement called libertarian in the deep, dark past that you refer to, but it has no relationship to the current US brand of Libertarian. Study up a little on Ron Paul. And keep heaping shit on me, I love it. What a debater!!!1!! Ron Paul, the GOP's latest useful idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Ron Paul, the GOP's latest useful idiot. Pretty much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Again, I suspect we are having a semantic disagreement. Have you looked at recent US Libertarian positions. They are so far from what you are listing as to be a joke. Perhaps there was some movement called libertarian in the deep, dark past that you refer to, but it has no relationship to the current US brand of Libertarian. Study up a little on Ron Paul. And keep heaping shit on me, I love it. What a debater!!!1!! We are'nt having a semantic arguement... You've proven you don't have a historical perspective on this issue.. You've also openly said earlier today that if a libertarian party could not be started up in Canada successfully,an armed coup is necessary... And you expect to be taken seriously... I contend that libertarians are the useful idiots of the conservative movement,and as you've clearly outlined,this is true on both sides of the border.. You hold out for some psersonal freedom agenda to come your way and they have little or no intention of giving you it at all... But by all means,start one up yourself... Or join your friends in Montana... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 We are'nt having a semantic arguement... You've proven you don't have a historical perspective on this issue.. You've also openly said earlier today that if a libertarian party could not be started up in Canada successfully,an armed coup is necessary... And you expect to be taken seriously... I contend that libertarians are the useful idiots of the conservative movement,and as you've clearly outlined,this is true on both sides of the border.. You hold out for some psersonal freedom agenda to come your way and they have little or no intention of giving you it at all... But by all means,start one up yourself... Or join your friends in Montana... As I plainly said, the coup statement was a joke. Only those who are totally anally retentive or who have no sense of humour wouldn't know that. Secondly, the Libertarians I know are far away from the Montana militia retards. As I said, read more, post less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 As I plainly said, the coup statement was a joke. Only those who are totally anally retentive or who have no sense of humour wouldn't know that. Secondly, the Libertarians I know are far away from the Montana militia retards. As I said, read more, post less. I'm not talking about the nutjob militias.. I'm talking about those folks in the US Mid West who think the government is only there for the very basic things that a country needs and people should otherwise be left alone... It's nothing short of pie in the sky idealism...And the Conservative establishment plays you folks for fools every time... And if you want to say something is a joke,maybe for future reference add a or something?? Mainly because there's at least two Albertans,and one Albertan who got banned,who have openly admitted that secession is a viable option..One,in fact,admits to being an Albertan Seperatist and admits to seeing Montana as a viable option... Just a heads up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I'm not talking about the nutjob militias.. I'm talking about those folks in the US Mid West who think the government is only there for the very basic things that a country needs and people should otherwise be left alone... It's nothing short of pie in the sky idealism...And the Conservative establishment plays you folks for fools every time... And if you want to say something is a joke,maybe for future reference add a or something?? Mainly because there's at least two Albertans,and one Albertan who got banned,who have openly admitted that secession is a viable option..One,in fact,admits to being an Albertan Seperatist and admits to seeing Montana as a viable option... Just a heads up... Quite aside from your and my disagreement, why didn't you insist on banning the dude who was very pro-Bloc in a thread a while ago. I wouldn't mind at all if Quebec succeeds. In fact I would like it, as long as the government at the time had the fortitude to not give them any foriegn aid. And yes, as a true and blue Albertan, I strongly think we would be really well off if we secceded. And if that's a bannable offense, ban me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Quite aside from your and my disagreement, why didn't you insist on banning the dude who was very pro-Bloc in a thread a while ago. I wouldn't mind at all if Quebec succeeds. In fact I would like it, as long as the government at the time had the fortitude to not give them any foriegn aid. And yes, as a true and blue Albertan, I strongly think we would be really well off if we secceded. And if that's a bannable offense, ban me. The guy did'nt get banned because he was a traitor...And that's exactly what he was...His avatar was the Albertan seperatist flag... He got banned because he made an off colour joke that was'nt remotely funny... It's your perogative to be a traitor,keep in mind I think Mr. Trudeau took the correct aproach to secessionists in 1970... I suspect I would have no problem with an implementation of the War Measures Act on a secessionist Alberta and all that that entails... Let's hope it never comes to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 The guy did'nt get banned because he was a traitor...And that's exactly what he was...His avatar was the Albertan seperatist flag... He got banned because he made an off colour joke that was'nt remotely funny... It's your perogative to be a traitor,keep in mind I think Mr. Trudeau took the correct aproach to secessionists in 1970... I suspect I would have no problem with an implementation of the War Measures Act on a secessionist Alberta and all that that entails... Let's hope it never comes to that... So what do you think of the Bloc, or is it just westerners that you hate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 So what do you think of the Bloc, or is it just westerners that you hate? I don't like traitors...I don't distinguish the justifications for treason... Language/Culture/anything else really does'nt matter to me... You are either in or you're out...And if you're out,it's my sincere hope the powers that be send you all the way out... In that sense,I think Mr. Trudeau went a little light on the FLQ rabble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I don't like traitors...I don't distinguish the justifications for treason... Language/Culture/anything else really does'nt matter to me... You are either in or you're out...And if you're out,it's my sincere hope the powers that be send you all the way out... In that sense,I think Mr. Trudeau went a little light on the FLQ rabble... You are going light on the Bloc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) You are going light on the Bloc? Well.. I'll tell you my idea about secessionists in Quebec because I agree with Pierre Trudeau's idea,but he did'nt go far enough... If it were me in '95 and it had gone to the "Yes" side... I would have: 1.Immediately invoked the War Measures act in Quebec 2.Immediately arrest all the BQ and PQ members and had their property siezed... 3.Put them up in a makeshift camp in Northern Quebec,which would have immediately reverted to the Cree Tribe anyway.... 4.Gone to the UN and offered these people up to any French speaking nation that wante them and give those countries two weeks to think about it. 5.Asked for a donation from every Canadian citizen to go to buy life jackets,becuase I'm not completely cold hearted... 6 (a) If there was a French nation that wanted these people,let'em go.. (b ) If there was'nt,the citizenship and passports of the traitors would be burned in front of them,life jackets applied...And a forced march would occur... 7.The march would conclude at Perce Rock. 8.The traitors would then be forced into the Gulf of St.Laurence and made to swim to St.Pierre and Miquelon,France,or,become fish food...It would'nt matter 9.The property of the traitors would go on the market and sold to English speaking people only(To gentrify the place) Of course,all that would be left of Quebec would be what amounts to Lower Canada and the Cree Indian tribe can have the upper 2/3rds... Like I said,Trudeau went a little easy on 'em... Edited April 5, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Well.. I'll tell you my idea about secessionists in Quebec because I agree with Pierre Trudeau's idea,but he did'nt go far enough... If it were me in '95 and it had gone to the "Yes" side... I would have: 1.Immediately invoked the War Measures act in Quebec 2.Immediately arrest all the BQ and PQ members and had their property siezed... 3.Put them up in a makeshift camp in Northern Quebec,which would have immediately reverted to the Cree Tribe anyway.... 4.Gone to the UN and offered these people up to any French speaking nation that wante them and give those countries two weeks to think about it. 5.Asked for a donation from every Canadian citizen to go to buy life jackets,becuase I'm not completely cold hearted... 6 (a) If there was a French nation that wanted these people,let'em go.. (b ) If there was'nt,the citizenship and passports of the traitors would be burned in front of them,life jackets applied...And a forced march would occur... 7.The march would conclude at Perce Rock. 8.The traitors would then be forced into the Gulf of St.Laurence and made to swim to St.Pierre and Miquelon,France,or,become fish food...It would'nt matter 9.The property of the traitors would go on the market and sold to English speaking people only(To gentrify the place) Of course,all that would be left of Quebec would be what amounts to Lower Canada and the Cree Indian tribe can have the upper 2/3rds... Like I said,Trudeau went a little easy on 'em... Well that totally pisses me off. Damnation and all that stuff. I am forced to agree with you, at least on this. But be careful, it don't mean we're freinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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