cybercoma Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I know if I wasn't a politically engaged soft voter I certainly wouldn't be seeking out political advertising online. Those JT attack ads have been on the airwaves for awhile now. Look at his poll numbers. I'm curious to see what the CPC campaign machine has for Mulclair. Besides, I'm glad they're not on televisions or the radio. I think all political campaigning should be banned outside the writ period. If I had my way, they wouldn't even be able to post this crap online now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Besides, I'm glad they're not on televisions or the radio. I think all political campaigning should be banned outside the writ period. If I had my way, they wouldn't even be able to post this crap online now. Sure and ban releasing poll results during a campaign as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sure and ban releasing poll results during a campaign as well.I would hate that, but I can see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 CPC did get some things done 06-11, but they had to make sure it was palatable to the other parties. After their majority they went a lot more the direction they would've wanted ideally. On the other hand, there is enough common ground between LPC and NDP to get things done without really needing to pander to the other parties. For example, regarding the environment, crime, and foreign policy there are subtle differences, but they're not polar opposites the way the CPC differs from the other two parties. That's where I said I think the CPC needs a majority but the other two could do with just a minority situation. Ha, you give the LPC more credit for having a clear set of ideological principles than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Haven't seen it on TV. Same for Harper's debates! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Besides, I'm glad they're not on televisions or the radio. I think all political campaigning should be banned outside the writ period. If I had my way, they wouldn't even be able to post this crap online now. First, it's not crap. Second, it's freedom of speech. And they're probably on the internet because that's where young people go more often than TV. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sure and ban releasing poll results during a campaign as well. Freedom of speech! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 When will the NDP pay for those stamps, eh? I'm sure that secret board made up of their political adversaries reached a sound legal decision. On the other hand, the NDP's ad outlines all the ways Harper failed to uphold his promise of cleaning up corruption in Ottawa with examples of real convictions and charges against the party and its politicians and membership. ~$2.7 million is a whole bunch of stamps.......contrasted with the ~$ 1 million found in improper expense claims in the recent audit of the Tory and Liberal Senators.......you speak to sound decisions, like the NDP insisting a $23 million dollar audit of the Senate to find a $ 1 million in fraud.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 How partisan do you get, Derek? I thought you Conservatives were "tough" on crime. And you're not partisan? ~ $1 million improper claims for Liberal and Tory Senators is a scandal, but the NDP owing ~$2.7 million is chump change? Tough on crime? You bet, and I hope like those Tories and Liberals that ripped off the Canadian taxpayer, those members of the NDP, including Mulcair, that owe money for "stamps" (as you put it) also face legal action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 You have to acknowledge that there's a difference between a detailed report openly published by the Auditor General after a two-year review and a decision made by a secretive internal board staffed by other MPs, which the NDP is still contesting. Actual legal proceedings would be quite different from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 You have to acknowledge that there's a difference between a detailed report openly published by the Auditor General after a two-year review and a decision made by a secretive internal board staffed by other MPs, which the NDP is still contesting. Actual legal proceedings would be quite different from this. "Secretive internal board"? You make it sound like its the Star Chamber.........The Board, comprised of equal members of the Government and Opposition, meets in Camera, with its minutes tabled in the House (for public record) and made available online......hardly secretive. Would you acknowledge the NDP, found owning nearly $ 3 million in improper expenses, is as bad (well worse) than the entire Senate that owes ~$1 million in improper expense claims? $2.7 Million owed by 23 NDP members, including Mulcair, Leslie and Moore......2.7 million/23 = more than Wright covered for Duffy......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 No, not yet. The NDP's defences sound potentially credible so I do not consider the matter settled yet. Even if it were, the dollar amount is not the only factor I'd consider when judging whether one improper expense is 'as bad' as another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 No, not yet. The NDP's defences sound potentially credible so I do not consider the matter settled yet. Even if it were, the dollar amount is not the only factor I'd consider when judging whether one improper expense is 'as bad' as another. Humor me, for the sake of argument, let's say the Star Chamber Internal Board of Economy's findings, findings not not only supported by the Tories, but also the Liberals are correct. Assuming such, if the Federal NDP spent improperly nearly 3xs as much money as those found guilty in the Senate, how is that not worse? If a Mike Duffy ripped you off for $90000 you're outraged, but if the Federal NDP ripped you off for nearly $270000 its not "as bad"? I agree, its three times worse.......... You speak to the NDP's attempt to go to court........is that an attempt to "seek justice" or try and punt the mater past the election.......let's be realistic, this isn't quite as bad as the Sponsorship scandal, but far worse than all the jerks in the Senate..........Improper use of taxpayer's money is bad be it by a Liberal, a Tory or by the NDP.........What's more, one only has to wonder if the NDP is already abusing the taxpayer now, where would they stop if they were ever in Government? And folks say I'm bias (which I am)......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Humor me, for the sake of argument, let's say the Star Chamber Internal Board of Economy's findings, findings not not only supported by the Tories, but also the Liberals are correct. i.e. by the party's two political rivals; you see why I'm not ready to consider it settled yet? Assuming such, if the Federal NDP spent improperly nearly 3xs as much money as those found guilty in the Senate, how is that not worse? If a Mike Duffy ripped you off for $90000 you're outraged, but if the Federal NDP ripped you off for nearly $270000 its not "as bad"? I agree, its three times worse.......... Where have I expressed 'outrage' about Duffy? Anyway, yes, improper use of public funds is definitely wrong. I'm just not sure that the dollar amount is the only thing to consider if we are somehow ranking the gravity of different offences: intent is one factor; the purposes to which the money was put could be another, etc. (Courts usually do consider factors like this in legal cases.) Someone improperly using taxpayer money to fund his own personal living expenses in one province because he has been appointed as a Senator in another province where he is not even a resident may well be worse than a party pooling its allotted office budgets to set up satellite offices where staff do the Parliamentary work they would do anyway, just in another city, even if a rule was violated in the process. Or it might not be. I'd want to know more of the details. Edited July 16, 2015 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Humor me how's about you humour me (and perhaps some others)! Clearly, correct me if I'm wrong; however, my understanding is that there isn't any question over the nature of the work being done by those employees working for NDP MPs... the issue is simply that they performed the work in so-called satellite offices outside of Ottawa. I understand that technology allows someone to work from virtually anywhere... who knew!!! You sure seem to be milking this for all its partisan worth, hey! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) This won't hurt the NDP at all... The 2 other parties finding wrong doing? Bring it to court for review and see where it falls. The NDP has so far refused to repay any of the money and has filed a legal challenge to the boards rulings in Federal Court. http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/05/27/mulcair-insists-theres-not-a-scintilla-of-evidence-of-improper-spending.html Of course the other parties don't want it going to court.... I wonder why... Edited July 16, 2015 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 i.e. by the party's two political rivals; you see why I'm not ready to consider it settled yet? Do you grant the Tories the same when attacked by the Liberals or NDP? Where have I expressed 'outrage' about Duffy? Anyway, yes, improper use of public funds is definitely wrong. I'm just not sure that the dollar amount is the only thing to consider if we are somehow ranking the gravity of different offences: intent is one factor; the purposes to which the money was put could be another, etc. (Courts usually do consider factors like this in legal cases.) Someone improperly using taxpayer money to fund his own personal living expenses in one province because he has been appointed as a Senator in another province where he is not even a resident may well be worse than a party pooling its allotted office budgets to set up satellite offices where staff do the Parliamentary work they would do anyway, just in another city, even if a rule was violated in the process. Or it might not be. I'd want to know more of the details. I'm sorry, I don't see the difference between improper living claims by the various Senators or using taxpayer funds to finance ones party........The vote subsidy was phased out, but the NDP miss use of funds (~$2.7 million) totals nearly half of what they received with the last full-pull in 2009 with the subsidy: If the Tories used over $5 million, or the Liberals over $3.5 million, of taxpayers money for political purposes, what should be funded by party membership or donations, there would be a vocal outrage.......as evident by the storm over $1 million dollars abused by those in the Senate.......... Del Mastro was led off in irons for spending over $20000 of his own money, contrary to election laws........the NDP has redirected over $ 2 million dollars of taxpayer dollars for the same purposes as Del Mastro........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 how's about you humour me (and perhaps some others)! Clearly, correct me if I'm wrong; however, my understanding is that there isn't any question over the nature of the work being done by those employees working for NDP MPs... the issue is simply that they performed the work in so-called satellite offices outside of Ottawa. I understand that technology allows someone to work from virtually anywhere... who knew!!! You sure seem to be milking this for all its partisan worth, hey! . If the use of modern technology and physical location is an excuse for breaking Federal law, I expect you to mount a similar defense for Duffy, Harb, Wallin and friends.........hey!! If the NDP can have Satellite offices, why not Senators Satellite primary residences???? Sauce for the goose....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 This won't hurt the NDP at all... The 2 other parties finding wrong doing? Bring it to court for review and see where it falls. Did you read your link? Trudeau pointed out that the issue has been boiling for “an awfully long time” — well before the NDP’s recent rise in the polls. And the Liberal leader noted it was Commons administrators who determined that New Democrat MPs broke the rules — what he called “a very serious independent finding.” “What people expect from their leaders is that when you make a mistake, you own up to (it), you apologize for it and you make it right. You fix it,” Trudeau said following his own party’s caucus meeting. “Instead we see Mr. Mulcair trying to deny that anything actually happened and blame others. And that’s just not the leadership people need to see.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 If the use of modern technology and physical location is an excuse for breaking Federal law, I expect you to mount a similar defense for Duffy, Harb, Wallin and friends.........hey!! breaking Federal law? What Federal law? Is the Board of Internal Economy 'secretive committee' the arbiter of "Federal law"? Again, which Federal law do you assert was broken? Since you're drawing the comparison, here I thought the Senate affair involved internal and external audits along with RCMP investigations... related to claims of inappropriate expense claims for "actions/activities unrelated to Senate business". In that regard, are you stating the NDP paid the involved employees for work/actions unrelated to the support of the related MPs? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm sorry, I don't see the difference between improper living claims by the various Senators or using taxpayer funds to finance ones party........ are you sure you understand what you've been railing on about here? I interpret the claimed BOIE 'kangaroo court' finding relates to satellite offices and the physical location of related employees... not to the nature of the work being performed by the related employees. If I am incorrect in my interpretation, please provide supporting detail to that end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Del Mastro was led off in irons for spending over $20000 of his own money, contrary to election laws........the NDP has redirected over $ 2 million dollars of taxpayer dollars for the same purposes as Del Mastro........ citation request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Do you grant the Tories the same when attacked by the Liberals or NDP? Absolutely. When have I done otherwise? Edited July 16, 2015 by Evening Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 per 308 aggregate monthly polling over the last year... lots of repeated MLW Harper Conservative support offering forewarning statements along the lines of, "just wait until that Harper attack ad machine turns towards the NDP". Well... not much time left - just when does the blitzkrieg arrive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Humor me Ok here's a shot http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/03/09/conservatives_ruled_in_contempt_of_parliament.html WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.