Muslim murders entire Jewish family!

[jbg]

Some of you come on here to use this sorry event to condemn all Palestinians, others Israelis. You are both equally as wrong and repulsive.

A little bit of name calling, eh?

This was an act of violence and yes it was part of a continuing series of heated exchanges between Palestinians and Israelis on the West Bank.

Heated exchange? More like a cold-blooded murder.

[Bob]

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're factually correct about every single matter you post about concerning Israel (making you unique among the Earth's population); is it so unthinkable to you that people can be naive, can think tey know of what they speak when they do not?

This isn't verminous; it's naivete.

And Israel isn't the only subject, is it? There are matters of great import, concerning human lives and human suffering, of which you have likley taken a wrongheaded, even offensive view, albeit accidentally.

Do you even doubt this for a single second?

Is there no room for genuinely well-intentioned ignorance in your philosophy?

There certainly is room for ignorance and naivete, but that's not what I was talking about. I was addressing intentional misrepresentations that others make towards obfuscating the truth and create a false narrative - not people who make seemingly innocent mistakes simply because they are ignorant or misguided.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Bob

[Saipan]

Weird. IDF kicks out the Israelis from the illegal settlement and they take it out on Palestinians.

How many were blown up by suicide bomber?

[Saipan]

How about you go burn a cross on someone's lawn.

If I hated the cross enough I'd burn it. But I have enough fireawood despite the extra long winter.

why don't you and all the others just shut the phack up today.

Have you tried meditation?

It came about because both sides choose violence

It always come about for one simple reason, Jews want to survive in their own country, and Arabs want the whole Middle East, pure Islamic. Jews have tiny little insignificant sliver of it (much smaller then original Kingdom of David) Look at the map.

Jews made the classical error to let the nomadic Arabs settle. Ben Netanyahu wrote about it in "Land for Peace". No, it wasn't about Israel. It was about Czechoslovakia. Czechs let many Germans to gradually over centuries settle in Bohemia, until one day Germans call it "sudetenland" and Hitler figured it should be part of Germany....... ah what the hell why not take whole Czechoslovakia while there. Lot of arms, ammo, tanks and explosives for FREE. With the blessing of Czech allies, the French.

Then there's the "East Prussia"

Germans that sympathized with Hitler were moved back to the Fatherland, it's what they always wanted anyway.

Likewise "palestinians" should be relocated with their brothers in Egypt, Jordan and Syria. After all they claimed to be Egyptians (like Yasar) Jordanians and Syrians less than 50 years ago.

How did Betlehem become Moslem holy place when it was always Jewish Holy City many centuries before any Islam even existed. Its like if Jews claimed Mecca or Medina [which in fact would make more sense, given history]

[Jack Weber]

I agree with her 100%. Their mere existence is a threat to us. And they never suffer nearly enough for their crimes against us. Nothing fascistic about that. We supply them with food, water, electricity, medical treatments, and other essentials... and what do we get in return? Terrorism. They are entirely responsible for their own situation (they elected Hamas, an openly anti-Semitic terrorist organization), the problem is, they haven't really been accountable (yet).

No...Nothing Fascistic about that,Bobby...

Interesting take on your veiled threats of the future...

Kinda like this guy...

Pay close attention,Bobby,to the speech from 1:00 to 1:50...

Israel Uber Alles,eh Bobby???

Enjoy your pile of rocks...

Edited March 28, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Jonsa]

Jews made the classical error to let the nomadic Arabs settle. Ben Netanyahu wrote about it in "Land for Peace". No, it wasn't about Israel. It was about Czechoslovakia. Czechs let many Germans to gradually over centuries settle in Bohemia, until one day Germans call it "sudetenland" and Hitler figured it should be part of Germany....... ah what the hell why not take whole Czechoslovakia while there. Lot of arms, ammo, tanks and explosives for FREE. With the blessing of Czech allies, the French.

Then there's the "East Prussia"

Germans that sympathized with Hitler were moved back to the Fatherland, it's what they always wanted anyway.

Likewise "palestinians" should be relocated with their brothers in Egypt, Jordan and Syria. After all they claimed to be Egyptians (like Yasar) Jordanians and Syrians less than 50 years ago.

Yes, transfer the arabs to the west.

Put on the jack boots, get the cattle cars lined up and ship them out.

How did Betlehem become Moslem holy place when it was always Jewish Holy City many centuries before any Islam even existed. Its like if Jews claimed Mecca or Medina [which in fact would make more sense, given history]

It would appear you know nothing about Islam. And its Jerusalem, not Bethlehem although that is also holy because it is the birthplace of Issa.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Jonsa

[Jonsa]

I agree with her 100%. Their mere existence is a threat to us. And they never suffer nearly enough for their crimes against us. Nothing fascistic about that. We supply them with food, water, electricity, medical treatments, and other essentials... and what do we get in return? Terrorism. They are entirely responsible for their own situation (they elected Hamas, an openly anti-Semitic terrorist organization), the problem is, they haven't really been accountable (yet).

Bob,

Israel is obligated to supply them with food, water, electricity, etc. They are an occupied people. You want them to be grateful to you for handouts and not be pissed that Israel is occupying their land?

Israel is paying an incredibly low price for stealing all that palestinian land. While horrible and outrageous in the grand scheme of things, Palestinian terrorism amounts to nothing more than pinpricks. The number of Israeli deaths due to terrorism in the last 50 years is less than 2000.

As for them being entirely responsible, are you blind? Of course no Israeli occupation policies could have any contributory effect, their being used as pawns by their arab league brethern was nothing. Granted they have suffered from corrupt leadership. They elected Hamas as much as a protest against Fatahs blatant corruption and incompetence as anything else. Seems most of the polling these days shows Hamas to have minority support and the desire for a peaceful two state solution to be the majority wish.

Its interesting to note the reaction of a number of jews to what they saw as occupation of their land. They are heroes and the palestinians are terrorist scumbags - history is always written by the victors.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel is paying an incredibly low price for stealing all that palestinian land.

There were no "Palestinians" in 1967. Just Jordanians.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and Egyptians to be fair. Yasser was Egyptian.

[Bob]

Bob,

Israel is obligated to supply them with food, water, electricity, etc. They are an occupied people. You want them to be grateful to you for handouts and not be pissed that Israel is occupying their land?

Israel is paying an incredibly low price for stealing all that palestinian land. While horrible and outrageous in the grand scheme of things, Palestinian terrorism amounts to nothing more than pinpricks. The number of Israeli deaths due to terrorism in the last 50 years is less than 2000.

As for them being entirely responsible, are you blind? Of course no Israeli occupation policies could have any contributory effect, their being used as pawns by their arab league brethern was nothing. Granted they have suffered from corrupt leadership. They elected Hamas as much as a protest against Fatahs blatant corruption and incompetence as anything else. Seems most of the polling these days shows Hamas to have minority support and the desire for a peaceful two state solution to be the majority wish.

Its interesting to note the reaction of a number of jews to what they saw as occupation of their land. They are heroes and the palestinians are terrorist scumbags - history is always written by the victors.

First of all, Gaza isn't occupied, so Israel has no legal responsibilities towards them. They are not occupied, so don't describe them as if they are. Moreover, the residents of Gaza are supplied with electricity and water from Israel, paid for with their foreign aid.

More importantly, do you think this problem started after June of 1967? They were murdering us and waging wars against us long before the term "occupation" showed up after the Six-Day Way. Indeed, the violence against us began decades before Israel's reestablishment in 1948. So please don't tell me that terrorism and anti-Semitism is a product of occupation, or of Israel, because it started many years before that. Stop describing Palestinian behaviour as a behaviour of realities that occurred AFTERWARDS and as a RESPONSE to their initial hostilities.

And it's too bad that two thousand murder victims isn't enough spilled blood to be a big deal to you. Nevermind the massive price Israel has paid and continues to pay towards security. Whether it be casualties in previous wars, the fact that the draft takes three and two years, respectively, of every enlisted young man and woman's prime years, the massive amount of money and energy spent on security, the thousands and thousands of injuries, etc, etc, etc. Your statement about Israel paying "an incredibly low price" for "stealing Palestinian land" betrays your ignorance and bias. You don't know what we've paid, so why are you speaking about it?

Lastly, you think the casualty statistics from terrorism reflect the intentions of the terrorists? Ever consider the fact that there is such a thing as counter-terrorism which works towards keeping those numbers as low as possible? Who pays that price, exactly? In other words, does counter-terrorism operate based on those who have already been murdered or does it seek to prevent those who have not yet become victims? You make it seem as if the number of murder victims from terrorism is entirely determined by the terrorists, and not a function of their intentions and actions to murder combined with our intentions and actions to protect. Don't think that because casualty rates have dropped in recent times that this is a reflection of paradigm shift in Arab/Palestinian perspectives towards terrorism. They never stop trying. Again, who pays that price?

Edited March 28, 2011 by Bob

[jbg]

It always come about for one simple reason, Jews want to survive in their own country, and Arabs want the whole Middle East, pure Islamic. Jews have tiny little insignificant sliver of it (much smaller then original Kingdom of David) Look at the map.

Jews made the classical error to let the nomadic Arabs settle. Ben Netanyahu wrote about it in "Land for Peace". No, it wasn't about Israel. It was about Czechoslovakia. Czechs let many Germans to gradually over centuries settle in Bohemia, until one day Germans call it "sudetenland" and Hitler figured it should be part of Germany....... ah what the hell why not take whole Czechoslovakia while there. Lot of arms, ammo, tanks and explosives for FREE. With the blessing of Czech allies, the French.

Then there's the "East Prussia"

Germans that sympathized with Hitler were moved back to the Fatherland, it's what they always wanted anyway.

Likewise "palestinians" should be relocated with their brothers in Egypt, Jordan and Syria. After all they claimed to be Egyptians (like Yasar) Jordanians and Syrians less than 50 years ago.

Yes, transfer the arabs to the west.

Put on the jack boots, get the cattle cars lined up and ship them out.

Godwin's law at work?

That is not an appropos analogy at all. The Jews never sought to be at war with the Palestinians or the Gazans. THe non-stop drumbeat of terror, and the abject refusal to make peace has forced Israel's hand in this. It is plain to anyone but a rank idiot that the Arabs are not looking for a peaceful standstill or settlement. They're lookng for a temporary truce, at best.

How did Betlehem become Moslem holy place when it was always Jewish Holy City many centuries before any Islam even existed. Its like if Jews claimed Mecca or Medina [which in fact would make more sense, given history]

It would appear you know nothing about Islam. And its Jerusalem, not Bethlehem although that is also holy because it is the birthplace of Issa.

So you're saying basically Israel has no place in the Middle East?

[Saipan]

Yes, transfer the arabs to the west.

Transfer the Arabs to Arab countries.

Put on the jack boots, get the cattle cars lined up and ship them out.

You're late. Jews are armed now. And will stay armed.

It would appear you know nothing about Islam.

How do you know?

And its Jerusalem, not Bethlehem

Both. Always.

Centuries before Islam existed.

[Saipan]

Israel is obligated to supply them with food, water, electricity, etc. They are an occupied people.

They have their own government, own police etc. Tibet is occupied, they are under Beijing government. Get your facts straight.

You want them to be grateful to you for handouts

They should NOT get any handouts. International help to "palestinians" ended up in Arafat's personal accounts around the world. It's a bottomless pit. Like help to African potentates. Or even indians here where the Chiefs of each band keep more money than salary of Provincial Premiers.

Israel is paying an incredibly low price for stealing all that palestinian land.

China is for stealing Tibet. There's no "palestinian" land. "Palestinians" [just like "sudetens") are recent invention. In this case by Arab countris to fight Israel.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Saipan

[bud]

First of all, Gaza isn't occupied,

this is according to israel, which no one else agrees with. according to the UN, the united states, canada and the rest of the world, israel is still occupying gaza due to the control of movement, border, air and waters.

[Jonsa]

First of all, Gaza isn't occupied, so Israel has no legal responsibilities towards them. They are not occupied, so don't describe them as if they are. Moreover, the residents of Gaza are supplied with electricity and water from Israel, paid for with their foreign aid.

So Gaza isn't occupied. Okay, do the gazans have control of their borders? do they have control of their air space? do they have freedom of movement? does Israel reserve the right to intervene militarily? are you suggesting that gaza is a sovereign entity?

http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/41%20En%20Gaza%20still%20Occupied%20v.2.pdf

More importantly, do you think this problem started after June of 1967? They were murdering us and waging wars against us long before the term "occupation" showed up after the Six-Day Way. Indeed, the violence against us began decades before Israel's reestablishment in 1948. So please don't tell me that terrorism and anti-Semitism is a product of occupation, or of Israel, because it started many years before that. Stop describing Palestinian behaviour as a behaviour of realities that occurred AFTERWARDS and as a RESPONSE to their initial hostilities.

I suggest nothing of the sort. I am well aware of the history of the region. Of course violence doesn't begat violence. I suggest only that the existing arab population of palestine resented the intrusion of european jews in what they considered their land. I am sure you can at least understand that kind of feeling.

What transpired at the end of colonialism and the collective guilt of Europe wrt the jews, created the idiotic and completely unworkable partition plan. Didn't go over with any side.

do you really think that arabs should have welcomed the jews with open arms? that watching zionism take root on the lands they had lived on for many generations, they should have simply rolled over and give it to the jews? do you know anything about human nature?

And it's too bad that two thousand murder victims isn't enough spilled blood to be a big deal to you. Nevermind the massive price Israel has paid and continues to pay towards security. Whether it be casualties in previous wars, the fact that the draft takes three and two years, respectively, of every enlisted young man and woman's prime years, the massive amount of money and energy spent on security, the thousands and thousands of injuries, etc, etc, etc. Your statement about Israel paying "an incredibly low price" for "stealing Palestinian land" betrays your ignorance and bias. You don't know what we've paid, so why are you speaking about it?

In all the wars Israel has fought perhaps 15,000 killed. Terrorism from inception perhaps 3,000. Development of a military industrial complex as a primary economic engine. A disciplined highly trained citizenry. Considering the length and frequency of conflict, versus what Israel has achieved and in comparison to other wars, its small price.

And if anything my bias in this conflict is toward Israel. The one thing that I think is absolutely wrong is Israel's settlement program. I happen to think (and the bulk of international opinion and law agrees) that Israel settlements are "illegal" in other words, Israel is stealing the land. Really sorry if you don't like that.

Lastly, you think the casualty statistics from terrorism reflect the intentions of the terrorists? Ever consider the fact that there is such a thing as counter-terrorism which works towards keeping those numbers as low as possible? Who pays that price, exactly? In other words, does counter-terrorism operate based on those who have already been murdered or does it seek to prevent those who have not yet become victims? You make it seem as if the number of murder victims from terrorism is entirely determined by the terrorists, and not a function of their intentions and actions to murder combined with our intentions and actions to protect. Don't think that because casualty rates have dropped in recent times that this is a reflection of paradigm shift in Arab/Palestinian perspectives towards terrorism. They never stop trying. Again, who pays that price?

You are still involved in a war. You might not think of the palestinians as an occupied people, but they certainly consider themselves as such. And as such a certain percentage of them will resist that occupation. Do some arabs want the total destruction of Israel - you bet. We both know that there is a fat fucking chance of that happening.

Naturally, Israel has to pay the price for all that counter terrorism, all that territory security, its the cost of occupation and the cost of settlement. why are you complaining about it? It seems as though you are resentful of the palestinians for existing.

[DogOnPorch]

Hey, neat! You and bud both advocate Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East. I'm betting that there aren't too many Zionists involved with that group.

[GostHacked]

There were no "Palestinians" in 1967. Just Jordanians.

There were no Israelis before .. what 1964? What is your point?

Let me edit -- 1948?

Edited March 29, 2011 by GostHacked

[GostHacked]

First of all, Gaza isn't occupied, so Israel has no legal responsibilities towards them. They are not occupied, so don't describe them as if they are. Moreover, the residents of Gaza are supplied with electricity and water from Israel, paid for with their foreign aid.

Either way it makes the settlements illegal on both counts. No matter if Gaza and the West bank are occupied territories or not.

[Jonsa]

Godwin's law at work?

That is not an appropos analogy at all. The Jews never sought to be at war with the Palestinians or the Gazans. THe non-stop drumbeat of terror, and the abject refusal to make peace has forced Israel's hand in this. It is plain to anyone but a rank idiot that the Arabs are not looking for a peaceful standstill or settlement. They're lookng for a temporary truce, at best.

Are you seriously suggesting that it is okay to transfer arabs out of the west bank and gaza?

that is what I was responding to.

Anyone who suggests transfer of an ethnic population deserves to be labeled with that analogy. Even a rank idiot should be able to see that.

So you're saying basically Israel has no place in the Middle East?

Are you on drugs? How on earth do you get that from a simple statement that Islam considers Jerusalem holy? As do the jews and the christians.

[Jonsa]

Transfer the Arabs to Arab countries.

Disgusting, facist, inhuman, scumbag, nazis transfered populations to the east. Except they never arrived.

You're late. Jews are armed now. And will stay armed.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

How do you know?

Self evident

Both. Always.

Centuries before Islam existed.

It was also holy Jews centuries before Christians. Doyou have some kind of relevant point?

[DogOnPorch]

There were no Israelis before .. what 1964? What is your point?

Let me edit -- 1948?

There was no 'Palestinian land' to 'steal' in 1967. Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank as it is now called was part of Jordan. Before that, it was under British administration due to WW1...and before that, Ottoman Turk going back to the late Middle-Ages. The only 'Palestinians' were the PLO and crew...and as I mentioned...Yasser was born in Cairo.

That is, unless your history book reads differently.

btw: variola = smallpox.

[GostHacked]

There was no 'Palestinian land' to 'steal' in 1967. Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank as it is now called was part of Jordan. Before that, it was under British administration due to WW1...and before that, Ottoman Turk going back to the late Middle-Ages. The only 'Palestinians' were the PLO and crew...and as I mentioned...Yasser was born in Cairo.

That is, unless your history book reads differently.

btw: variola = smallpox.

There was no Israeli land before that either. Keep trying.

[DogOnPorch]

There was no Israeli land before that either. Keep trying.

Uhhh...actually...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

[GostHacked]

Uhhh...actually...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

And round and round we go with no resolution in sight!! .. Sand makes nice glass if you heat it up enough.

I jest .. I jest ..

[DogOnPorch]

And round and round we go with no resolution in sight!! .. Sand makes nice glass if you heat it up enough.

I jest .. I jest ..

What?...did you think all that Bible stuff was BS? Do you know how Jerusalem became 'sacred' to Islam?