Muslim murders entire Jewish family!

[GostHacked]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/13/west.bank.settlements/index.html?hpt=T2

This should solve the issue.

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel approved the construction of several hundred housing units in the West Bank, the prime minister's office said early Sunday, a day after five Israelis were killed in their home in the disputed territory.

The government approved the construction in the settlements of Gush Etzion, Maale Adumim, Ariel and Kiryat Sefer in a rare Saturday night decision.

The development came shortly after five members of an Israeli family were killed in the West Bank in what Israel is calling a terror attack.

[bud]

This occurred in Israel...

the murders actually did not happen in israel. they happened in a settlement in the palestinian territories.

This is just terrible and give you a taste of extreme danger the Jewish people are under constantly at the hands of Muslim terrorists. People are not even safe in their homes while sleeping. When will we wake up? How many have to die at the hands of Muslim terrorists before we get it?

for some, like you, it's not okay to kill civilians with a knife but it's okay if they're killed by guns, tanks and airplanes.

for some, like me, both are murder and wrong.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, right, ghoul. You use events like this to promote your anti-Israeli agenda. Period.

[bud]

Yeah, right, ghoul. You use events like this to promote your anti-Israeli agenda. Period.

yes. i am a monster for not being selective about which murder of civilians is wrong and you're not a monster for excusing the murders of civilians who belong to a different tribe than yours.

Edited March 13, 2011 by bud

[bloodyminded]

Yeah, right, ghoul. You use events like this to promote your anti-Israeli agenda. Period.

This very thread began explicitly with an anti-Muslim agenda by an admitted fascist. Did this escape your notice?

[DogOnPorch]

Have some candy.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0cphfrJd8n5p6?q=palestinian

...you deserve it.

[DogOnPorch]

This very thread began explicitly with an anti-Muslim agenda by an admitted fascist. Did this escape your notice?

Mr Canada killed those folks? Well...that's different, then.

[bloodyminded]

Have some candy.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0cphfrJd8n5p6?q=palestinian

...you deserve it.

Ok, ghoul. When you get called on your loathing for Arabs, your hatred for Jews, or your eager agreement with the (admitted) fascist who started this thread....just change the subject!

Whatever works.

[DogOnPorch]

Ok, ghoul. When you get called on your loathing for Arabs, your hatred for Jews, or your eager agreement with the (admitted) fascist who started this thread....just change the subject!

Whatever works.

How could I forget bloodyminded? You can have some candy, too!

[bloodyminded]

How could I forget bloodyminded? You can have some candy, too!

Finally. Thank you.

[DogOnPorch]

Finally. Thank you.

No prob, Mr Goebbels.

[Mr.Canada]

Muslims are handing out candy and Gaza is celebrating the murder of a family. By the sounds of things here, many posters here make excuses for this cold blooded murder. I wonder if you'd all still be making excuses if this was your family that was wiped out.

Hamas is making excuses as well, you left wingers would fit right in over there.

[bloodyminded]

No prob, Mr Goebbels.

Actually, German propaganda would have been impossible were it not for thsoe who mastered propaganda as we now know it: the Americans and the British.

Many people like to blame the Nazis, or alternately, the soviets.

that's hilarious. the Americans have far more sophisticated propaganda techniques than those bozos ever did.

That's why the West remains so expert at it.

Read up on Bernays if you want to learn a little about the history of propaganda.

[Bob]

Of course you'll ignore my statement - because you're a tribalist who happens to be Jewish. "Your people" do not have the same capacity for extremism or violence because, "your people" are different and better, because we're Chosen.

I never said that. We've had a small number of such persons. Baruch Goldstein being the first to come to mind. Any objective analysis that compares the volume and manner of such crimes perpetrated by the Arab/Muslim group to the Jewish group would be revealing. Moreover, take a look at how we conduct ourselves in Israel with respect to the many differences between all of us - our religious groups, by and large, are not moving with violence to impose their ways on us - contrary to the fantasy you are trying to portray. Yes, there are many problems with our ultra-religious groups. Going around killing the non-observant and trying to implement the Talmud as the law of the land certainly isn't one of them. Any examples you'll certainly search for to "prove me wrong" will be trivial. Israel isn't at risk of becoming an ultra-religious Jewish state. Anyways, it's a separate issue. The bottom line is that yes, we do have ultra-religious undesirables among our people, but they're not like Hamas and Hezbollah - which is the disgusting lie you are trying to propagate in here. You're just trying to draw some moral equivalence and throw mud at people you know nothing about.

Admittedly it was inflammatory, but it was to make a point - we clearly have a double standard if we can easily call Muslims who want to impose Muslim law and scripture on daily life and politics "extremists" but Jews who have the same desires aren't. Those efforts manifest in different ways given historical, religious, economic and political contexts - but the desire is the same: basic human morality goes out the window, no commitment to international law, and the only thing that matters is what you think your scripture says.

I've addressed these remarks above. I will add one thing - "international law" has to be the most meaningless term that I always hear. Morality and justice is what matters to me, regardless of what "international law" may or may not say. Ultra-religious nutcases in Israel who want a Halahic state aren't a threat to Israel, and they're not violent.

]So therefor: "Jews are apes and pigs, we should wipe them off the face of the earth" or "Arabs are barbarians with bloodlust for our people, God gave us Greater Israel, they have no right to it, we will take it from them by any means necessary"

Well, it depends on what land you're talking about. Israel is certainly the land of the Jewish people and belongs exclusively to us. Either way, I have no interest in pursuing this line of argumentation - as it's not one that's regularly advanced in standard discussion of land rights.

For the record, the cycle of violence and reprisals go back so long I don't really blame any one side for starting it, especially since both sides have enough blood on their hands by now. However that doesn't mean that there aren't specific places and times where one side has backed off, and even done the right thing, and the other side has been incapable of following suit and tried to keep the cycle going.

You don't know enough about the history to comment, anyways. You're again trying to draw a moral equivalence between us and the Arabs/Muslims with the simplistic comment I bolded for emphasis. There is no question that we have the moral high-ground, and always have. A simple examination of how we conduct ourselves compared to how they conduct themselves reveals this to be true. We have pluralism and diversity. They do not. We abide by and believe in democratic values and freedoms. They do not. We conduct war with moral codes of conduct. They do not. The very values that most of us believe in, are actualized and REAL in Israel, by virtue of the Jewish people. Those values are not a reality in Arab-administered territories, by virtue of those people.

ie - Hamas' decision to launch rockets following Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. Terrible from pretty much every perspective - moral, strategic, etc. And certainly the opposite move you'd make if peace was your intent.

At the same time - you have had a situation in the West Bank in the last few years of a growing protest movement that utilizes civil disobedience. You have a West Bank PA leadership that has been pretty much doing everything on the checklist for the "Roadmap to Peace" and has even been supporting the protest movement and cracking down on terrorism. In Nablus you have a situation where there were protests against illegal settlements and against the larger settlement project in general, which I believe you have said you're not against (which would put you in contrast with international law, every government, and global opinion - even here in Canada or the US). And you have a bunch of thugs who believe they are on some kind of religious Imperial project, deciding to meet a democratic effort with brute force.

You are making this up as you go along. You have no idea what you're talking about. Terrorism has been reduced exclusively because of improved security paid for and administered by Israel. "Cracking down on terrorism"? Give me a break. You couldn't even name one example from your recollection of a genuine PA effort against terrorism without running to Google for a half-baked example. You're trying so desperately to paint this false image of the "better Arab". As if somehow in the past few years their inclination for "resistance" (otherwise known as terrorism) has gone down for one reason or another. The hatred and animosity among them is worse then ever, and the improved security situation is entirely the result of improved security arrangements and intelligence - primarily the security barrier.

As far as settlement expansion, I certainly do support the development in Jewish communities across the 1949 armistice lines, which were never borders, and were never feasible to become borders. Of course this depends on context, I do not support all expansion. But as an example, Jerusalem is, in my view, eternally Jewish and a red line. No part of it is negotiable. No part of it is a "settlement", contrary to your "international law". You couldn't even name three settlements, and have no grasp of the topography or geography of this land, and how these issues affect our security/economic/resource situations. Basically, you don't know what you're talking about.

As far as international opinion, do you think I give a damn? It's the same world that looked the other way when we were being placed in gas chambers. I'll repeat what I said earlier, I believe in morality and justice, and do not temper these principles under ignorant "world opinion".

This isn't just happening in Nablus, it's going on all over the West Bank.

And frankly I think it's a perversion of Torah to be saying that God sanctions a colonial project that will disenfranchise and oppress a group of people. I also think it's a betrayal that even after Israel is established, we cannot stop there - we are doing our part to prevent a people from being able to self-determine their own future.

Well, I reject Palestinian nationalism outright. They're indistinguishable from other Arabs/Muslims in the area. They can have their self-determination elsewhere, and not on top of us and at our expense. There are more than enough countries through which Arabs/Muslims can actualize self-determination.

Of course I acknowledge that, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that there are many Jews who in the beginning because of great pain and later because of religious or ideological tunnel-vision, refuse to acknowledge the humanity of the Arabs/Muslims living amongst them - and this refusal translates into things like the occupation.

Who rejects their humanity? We reject their nationalistic ambitions in our country. They're humans, no denying that.

Accepting our own responsibility for the current situation is no dishonest - it's the definition of honest.

I simply refuse to keep score any more - I found that the more I counted the wrongs, the more it was clear that there is no clear "winner" and there were far too many on my side that I was comfortable with, and I could see the occupation poisoning everything and turning us into something we'd swore we'd never become. I also did not see how the status quo will lead to peace or even, as Tom Friedman puts it "the ability to put your feet up and relax"

Here's the thing - I used to be an out and out zionist: I even remember getting up and teaching the class proudly about "Israel's great expansion" in grade four: proudly marking down the annexation of Gaza, West Bank & Golan as a victory. But my views changed once I started doing my own reading, which virtually all came from Jewish scholars, most Israeli themselves, about the conflict, and it didn't pair with the black and white version I was sold as a kid. Even most of my family in that time, has gone from being ardent zionists to being "neutral supporters of Israel" including my 90 year old Zaide.

And frankly, if that man can be disgusted with actions on both sides and see the good in others on both sides, after what he's been through - I really could care less about your opinion of me.

Your Zaide may also be quite ignorant of events in Israel. It's all irrelevant, anyways, your posts reveal much about your ignorance of contemporary events and the historical context.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Bob

[Bob]

Sanity! It always sounds nice.

It's just moral equivalence rhetoric. Nothing sane about it, just ignorant rhetoric built up to reinforce general ideological concepts he refuses to let go. Primarily, the assumption that all peoples are the basically the same and want the same things.

[scribblet]

If anyone thinks that this is an isolated innocence then ask yourself why crowds of Palestinians celebrated the murder of these Israeli children, and if you believe it is not representative of the Palestinian attitude you are mistaken. It seems to be a point of pride on mass murdering Jews and Christians. I tend to think that left wing support of this attitude and behaviours is partly responsible for it, as they feel that they have support in what they do.

[dre]

Maybe moving your family into a militarized zone full of people that hate your guts wasnt a brilliant move in retrospect.

[dre]

If anyone thinks that this is an isolated innocence then ask yourself why crowds of Palestinians celebrated the murder of these Israeli children, and if you believe it is not representative of the Palestinian attitude you are mistaken. It seems to be a point of pride on mass murdering Jews and Christians. I tend to think that left wing support of this attitude and behaviours is partly responsible for it, as they feel that they have support in what they do.

Well no duh... those two gangs of religious insane morons hate each other and have been killing each other for decades.

News at 11.

[Bob]

the murders actually did not happen in israel. they happened in a settlement in the palestinian territories.

for some, like you, it's not okay to kill civilians with a knife but it's okay if they're killed by guns, tanks and airplanes.

for some, like me, both are murder and wrong.

We're all well aware that you refuse to distinguish between Israeli acts of self-defense and Palestinian/Arab/Muslim terrorism and murder in order to advance your dishonest and ignorant agenda.

[Bob]

If anyone thinks that this is an isolated innocence then ask yourself why crowds of Palestinians celebrated the murder of these Israeli children, and if you believe it is not representative of the Palestinian attitude you are mistaken. It seems to be a point of pride on mass murdering Jews and Christians. I tend to think that left wing support of this attitude and behaviours is partly responsible for it, as they feel that they have support in what they do.

It's certainly not an isolated incident, but a simple continuation of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism that we've seen from Arabs/Muslims since the 19th century. This is a war, and this is how they fight the war. This is another in the long ling of hundreds of attacks and thousands of victims of terrorism in Israel and abroad targeting Jewish and Israeli people.

Sometimes I wonder if it's even worth addressing the vermin who try to deny the reality that these events and all others like them really represent.

[Bob]

Maybe moving your family into a militarized zone full of people that hate your guts wasnt a brilliant move in retrospect.

That same line of thinking would lead us to believe there should be no Israel because it was "full" of people opposed to our basic national rights.

[Bob]

Well no duh... those two gangs of religious insane morons hate each other and have been killing each other for decades.

News at 11.

Another dishonest oversimplification that tries to equate us with them. Typical bullshit from you.

[bud]

Muslims are handing out candy and Gaza is celebrating the murder of a family. By the sounds of things here, many posters here make excuses for this cold blooded murder. I wonder if you'd all still be making excuses if this was your family that was wiped out.

Hamas is making excuses as well, you left wingers would fit right in over there.

i have not seen one person make excuses or justify killing the family. but you and a few others on this forum make excuses for killing civilians that do not belong to your tribe. why? because you are a hypocrite.

speaking of hypocrisy, how do you feel about these jews celebrating in new york. i wonder if they were giving out candy:

this is what they're celebrating:

Edited March 14, 2011 by bud

[bud]

"i think they should clear off all the city. yes. i am a little bit fascist."

are you guys a 'a little bit' fascist as well?

[Bob]

What a surprise, you link to Max Blumenthal - a verminous anti-Israel and anti-Zionist "journalist" who desperately tries to spin Israelis and Jews as bloodthirsty and filled with hate. Moreover, the Blumenthal video you linked is regarding Israeli-solidarity demonstrations with respect to the pro-terrorist/anti-Israel flotilla, and the second video is the terrible story of the now well-known Gaza doctor Aboul Aish who has (three?) daughters of his accidentally killed by Israeli shells during Cast Lead.

You can't even get your spin straight.