Canada (NATO) at war with Libya

[William Ashley]

Well we both know SAS and other special forces were on the ground long before the crap hit the fan. But now NATO/UN is proposing peace keepers on the ground in Libya.

NATO/UN is simply outright stealing from Libya and not making any aplogies about it.

"Occupational Force"

Rebel forces couldn't establish a government on their own, guerrilla war would oust them no doubt. They don't have a majority of popular support, they are a minority. Western Intel and Special Forces would be required to be there for years in a "Secret war" (they likely will be anyway)

Of course with the US buying Gaddafi's weapons... now they can say he launched attacks, but they will have other people use those weapons then blame them for the attacks...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-25/u-s-may-snap-up-qaddafi-s-missiles-in-mali-black-market-to-soak-up-supply.html

I should note it is illegal to change civil law during an occupation... and they want to rewrite the constitution, and elect a new government... illegal under international law to do so. What order will this occur in?

The articles are saying the NTC will write the constitution..... not the "new elected government will vote on a new constitution etc.. so much for democracy..

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/08/23/189s654807.htm

The Humor in this this is that the "new constitution" is based on Sharia law.... meaning a fundamental radicalization of previously somewhat desecularization under Gadaffi.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/africa-mainmenu-27/8754-sharia-enshrined-in-libyan-draft-constitution

Here in the capital they've got shortages of water

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3303675.htm

Edited August 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

http://www.france24.com/en/20110827-libya-rebels-fight-provide-food-water-tripoli

More signs they may have cut water supplies intentionally... it is madess to think that they would have cut off water supplies to Libya's largest city... it is genocide by NATO.

It is another war crime. Now if the fighting turns and NATO ships are unable to enter (when they want to enter), if the fighting doesn't stop the CIVILIANS will all die of dehydration. MILLIONS.

SHAME ON NATO!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14693657

Edited August 27, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

Where did the mustard gas go?

ON the 25th there were "talks" with NATO on how to deal with the stockpiles of chemical weapons.

A few days later...

all of Gaddafi's stockpiles of mustard gas, which were being monitored by NATO, have now disappeared.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/310883#ixzz1WMVMqsfJ

No official statement has been found on what happened to them.

This from what was reported on the

24th: Secure

25th: Monitored with talks

29th: Gone.

there were no plans to send U.S. troops in to secure the chemical weapons sites, http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/08/good_news_bad_news_about_libyan_weapons.html

the US has budgeted $3 million to date for two international weapons-abatement teams to find and destroy anti-aircraft systems and other munitions and landminesp http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=235737

British/French/Qatari, who took them? Surely not The Islamic Terrorists incharge of Internal Security in Libya for the NTC.

Unorganized opposition fighters and ordinary Libyans have pried open weapons stores in the search for arms for battle and tradable goods. ... People walk in and take whatever they need and load them onto trucks. No one knows where those trucks are going,

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=235737

stored in corroding drums, at a site southeast of Tripoli.

Libya's chemical weapons have been under 24 hour surveillance, Bloomberg reports. Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the chairman of the Libyan National Transitional Council, said on Wednesday that no chemical or biological weapons have been found since rebel forces entered the capital in Tripoli this week

http://bioprepwatch.com/news/262359-fall-of-qaddafi-starts-race-to-recover-weapons

She noted as well that Tripoli’s supply of mustard agent is safe at the Waddan ammunition reserve, and is also not weapons-ready. http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/securing-libya-5810

RAF destroys Gaddafi ammunition depot

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/RafDestroysGaddafiAmmunitionDepot.htm

SO apparently the mustard gas south of Tripoli is safe at a bombed out ammunition depot?

2 days ago

Questions also have been raised about 10 tons of mustard gas stored at the Waddan Ammunition Reservation http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/25/libya.missiles.nato/

A U.S. official said the same Libyan government unit that had been guarding the mustard gas stockpile is still doing so, an indication that Gadhafi security forces are still present. But the official said the United States has been closely monitoring the facility and has determined "they have neither abandoned their posts, nor tried to gain access to the materials." August 25, 2011

Edited August 28, 2011 by William Ashley

[GostHacked]

William .. not buying the WMD bit at all....

also ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/08/30/libya-gadhafi-wife-children-algeria-reaction.html

The Libyan interim government has set a Saturday deadline for forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi in the city of Sirte to surrender or face a military assault.

Pro-Gadhafi fighters are dug in around the city, his heavily-defended hometown 400 kilometres east of the capital Tripoli. They have shown no signs of giving up.

"By Saturday, if there are no peaceful indications for implementing this, we will decide this matter militarily," Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the chairman of the National Transitional Council (NTC), said during a news conference in the eastern city of Benghazi.

My main question is .. what military?? The so called western backed rebels? Also listening to CBC radio today, and it was mentioned that the locks are being changed on the Libyan Embassy so the new NTC ambassador can take over.

[William Ashley]

William .. not buying the WMD bit at all....

also ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/08/30/libya-gadhafi-wife-children-algeria-reaction.html

My main question is .. what military?? The so called western backed rebels? Also listening to CBC radio today, and it was mentioned that the locks are being changed on the Libyan Embassy so the new NTC ambassador can take over.

Baseless rhetoric. There was an almost complete media blackout on the issue in mainstream Canadian media such as CBC until the Tripoli Siege came into being.

People seem to miss the fact that what arose from a front to impose a cease fire ended up being a toppling of Libya's legitimate government by illegal coupe agents and terrorists. The west was involved in many violations of international law including human rights law. The rules of war were grossly violated such as the Geneva convention by what was given the name TNC - coupe agents that planning dates back to atleast November if not well before the engineered "situation" unfolded.

Much of the fighting was done by special forces and foreign agents such as those employed by the CIA - not "Libyan Citizens"

The situation is not "over" but it is reaching a development point that is notable that is likely to be seen in the next 3 or so days.

it was a highly illegal and unethical occurence.

The Harper Government played its cards very early so their position is not unexpected. Personally they were involved in actions that ought to be tarnishing to the reputation of Canada and any attempts on upholding a human rights standard.

The western media will continue to distort the situation, perhaps in part fed lies by NATO and forces in Libya.

None the less I spit on what happened as an individual who looked to many sources for information not just western media.

Unfortuantely the TNC arn't the good guys anymore than Qaddafi is.

They are war criminals and Canada shouldn't be accepting anyone to that Embassy until elections are held, Canada should only support democracy not Tyranny and abuse of humanity.

It isn't legal in international law. A Canada that doesn't recognize international law is a Canada Canadians shouldn't recognize. It is illegitimate and NOT following the rule of law, it is not LEGAL. They have no legitimacy.

An occupying force Cannot change domestic law. The TNC is not the government, it is an illegitimate criminal front. They at no time were authorized by the United Nations to assume state in Libya. They are IN VIOLATION OF LIBYAN LAW. YOU CANNOT VIOLENTLY OVERTHROW YOUR GOVERNMENT LEGALLY! IT IS ILLEGAL IN CANADA IT IS ILLEGAL THERE! THEY ARE CRIMINALS!

Edited August 31, 2011 by William Ashley

[PIK]

Listening to you 2 can make a man puke.You guys are as bad as amnesty international, always complaining about canada and the US or britain, but never say anything about the real evil people on this planet.

[GostHacked]

I am with you there William. All your points have been proven correct (but obviously not by our media)

This point stands out ...

They are war criminals and Canada shouldn't be accepting anyone to that Embassy until elections are held, Canada should only support democracy not Tyranny and abuse of humanity.

It isn't legal in international law. A Canada that doesn't recognize international law is a Canada Canadians shouldn't recognize. It is illegitimate and NOT following the rule of law, it is not LEGAL. They have no legitimacy.

I wonder what the legal implications of that are for Canada, recognizing an ambassador of the TNC whom none of them were elected. I am sure this breaks some Canadian Laws as well.

[William Ashley]

I am with you there William. All your points have been proven correct (but obviously not by our media)

This point stands out ...

I wonder what the legal implications of that are for Canada, recognizing an ambassador of the TNC whom none of them were elected. I am sure this breaks some Canadian Laws as well.

I'm pretty sure diplomatic stuff is mostly protocol. But there is a difference between "issues" and "soundness"

If you understand my jest.

Just reverse whatever you ought to think unless ethics, morals, human decency, and values matter.

Here is a guide

http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/res/biblio-eng.cfm

http://www.international.gc.ca/protocol-protocole/protocol_policies-politiques_protocole.aspx?lang=eng

An ambassador from the NTC Libya technically is in the order of precedence in Canada when they accept them. It is not a faceless or totally devoid post it is real and integrates with the state of Canada. I stand by my position that only democratically elected governments should be received by Canada for Embassies. Consulates ought be accepted for other major powers however.

Canada asceeds to (suppose to) Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations

http://www.international.gc.ca/protocol-protocole/guidelines_policies_accreditation_lignes_directrices_accreditation.aspx?lang=eng

This treaty is under the context of the UN

untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

Unfortunately there may be a little confusion on the "powers of state" since the UN continues to recognize the Libya government in the UN not the NTC

Article 7

Subject to the provisions of articles 5, 8, 9 and 11, the sending State may freely appoint the members of the staff of the mission. In the case of military, naval or air attachés, the receiving State may require their names to be submitted beforehand, for its approval.

so it is not legal as per the treaty.

It is a treaty violation by Canada

---

The Issue gets more complex due to the UN abassador for Libya, as well as the ability to appoint or remove a UN ambassador,

They for instance used the word "resign" recognizing him as having authority..

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/world/africa/22nations.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12586796

see here...

http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article293695.ece

The UN is out of order.

Canada the US and others are in breach of the Vienna Convention

---

NATO is now saying, it is their choice to stop not the UN. The Harper Government says it might stay.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/08/30/pol-harper-meeting-libya.html

Edited September 1, 2011 by William Ashley

[Bonam]

I wonder what the legal implications of that are for Canada, recognizing an ambassador of the TNC whom none of them were elected. I am sure this breaks some Canadian Laws as well.

Why would it have legal implications? We recognize ambassadors from many other nations which don't have elections at all (absolute monarchies, dictatorships, and president-for-life states).

Edited August 31, 2011 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

Why would it have legal implications? We recognize ambassadors from many other nations which don't have elections at all (absolute monarchies, dictatorships, and president-for-life states).

I guess you are right, but there is really no form of government in Libya at the moment, despite what both sides are saying. Canada recognized the rebels as the legitimate government before they were a government, and still struggling to be a government (and still trying to win over Gadaffi), we helped usurp the government of Libya to support puppets and terrorists (remember Al-Queda is known to be among the rebels). Along with the UN/NATO assets of Libya were frozen then sum by sum released to the rebels. 1.5 billion here, 300 million there. ....

[William Ashley]

This has got to be a CIA cover story, or it is just sadly humourous due to the tang of irony.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/world/africa/02islamist.html

[capricorn]

The Harper Government says it might stay.

So?

Sometime before Sept. 27, Stephen Harper will likely ask Canada’s Parliament to renew the federal government’s mandate to use force in support of what used to be rebel forces in Libya.

Parliament will give him that mandate. That’s one benefit of having a majority government. It’s also a recognition that, on this file at least, the Prime Minister has played his hand exceedingly well.

---

That both the Liberals and the NDP have twice voted to endorse the Libyan mission reflects the maturity of their leadership (as it then was) and support for the rebellion among Canadians.

This time, the NDP has made it clear that it wants Canada’s military role to end. But the Liberals will probably vote with the Conservatives. After all, as Western interventions in that part of the world go, this one has been a resounding success.

It didn’t always look that way. Not that many weeks ago, the rebel advance appeared stalled; the rebels themselves were divided and drifting toward internecine violence. Once again, Canada seemed to have found itself mired in a well-meaning intervention that was costing money, risking lives and producing no good result.

But the misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have taught Western leaders a few things, the most important being that rebels seeking to overthrow dictators must lead the fight themselves.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/on-libya-harper-and-the-west-have-played-their-cards-well/article2151372/

Libya is the worst thing that could have happened to proponents of Canada's military as a self-effacing force with limited resources that should con-fine itself to peacekeeping and rescue operations. Somehow, from what looked like a disaster in July, a semi-glorious victory seems to have emerged. NATO's hydra-headed command structure and its strategy of pummelling Gaddafi's defences from the air eventually wore down the regime's forces to the point that the rag-tag rebels - men in jeans and pick-up trucks, careening down desert highways in pursuit of tanks - were able to break through. Now everyone is congratulating one another, and Mr. Harper feels emboldened enough to shake a warning fist at other dictators.

"For the Gaddafis of this world pay no attention to the force of argument. The only thing they get is the argument of force," he warned.

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/surprise+victory+Libya/5342945/story.html

Libya wants Canada to help craft a world-class health care system in the North African Country.

"We are asking to transfer the health system to Libya, an expertise in managing the system," said Sal Elgheriani, chair of the Canadian Libyan Council. "Libya has all of the funds, has all the resources to build such a system."

He says Libya has a surplus of doctors, but lacks infrastructure and organization.

Elgheriani and his Libyan-Canadian compatriots held a press conference with Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae on Parliament Hill Thursday, saying the turbulent country is looking for serious investment from Canadian companies — and they will remember who their friends are.

"We won our freedom thanks to the assistance of the Canadian Forces and the Americans and the British and the French," said Elgheriani, his voice emotional. "We sacrificed 50,000 lives out of five million people to gain this freedom. We are extremely proud of what we achieved. We are very happy with Canada. "

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/01/libya-wants-canada-to-invest

This mission has done much to raise Canada's profile as a world player in international affairs. All this in spite of not having a seat on the UN Security Council.

So before we jump the gun on Harper's intentions on Lybia let's wait to hear him make his case in the H of C.

[bush_cheney2004]

....So before we jump the gun on Harper's intentions on Lybia let's wait to hear him make his case in the H of C.

I agree..it's not about Canada staying at all....hell...Canada never left since Paul Martin's "date" in Ghadaffi's tent. Oil service workers want to get back at it soon.

[Guest Derek L]

I agree..it's not about Canada staying at all....hell...Canada never left since Paul Martin's "date" in Ghadaffi's tent. Oil service workers want to get back at it soon.

If anything, this operation in Libya is a success storey for both the NATO/coalition members involved, the foreign companies that have invested million in the country over the last few years and more importantly, for the Libyan people themselves......It’s evident by the fact that now the Libyans will have a “Canadian style healthcare system” paid for by their now ethical oil.

[Black Dog]

Listening to you 2 can make a man puke.You guys are as bad as amnesty international, always complaining about canada and the US or britain, but never say anything about the real evil people on this planet.

So, I take it Harper will be sending jets to Syria and Bahrain next?

[GostHacked]

So, I take it Harper will be sending jets to Syria and Bahrain next?

Let's not forget Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia.....

[Guest Derek L]

So, I take it Harper will be sending jets to Syria and Bahrain next?

With Syria, we can only hope....Bahrain needs some freedom delivered from the sky? I though it was Oman.......

[Guest Derek L]

Let's not forget Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia.....

I thought everything has since cooled down there?

[GostHacked]

With Syria, we can only hope....Bahrain needs some freedom delivered from the sky? I though it was Oman.......

Bahrain already got that. Saudi Arabia was able to step in (at the US's approval) to quell the uprisings there. They only host the USA's 5th Fleet.

[GostHacked]

I thought everything has since cooled down there?

Things are just getting started.

[Guest Derek L]

Bahrain already got that. Saudi Arabia was able to step in (at the US's approval) to quell the uprisings there. They only host the USA's 5th Fleet.

Thats good to hear, Bahrain will likely be vital for the main event.....

[Guest Derek L]

Things are just getting started.

But is the oil okay?

[William Ashley]

But is the oil okay?

So I guess if all Qadaffi's secret government files that implicate the government in war crimes --- would mean that all the same files that implicate the CIA and MI6 in war crimes/human rights abuses would be sufficient too huh?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/03/secret-libyan-files-mi6-cia

It pains me when the west says -- HE IS SUCH A BAD MAN - and we know this because we baited him and supplied him to do it, and asked him to do it! He is such as bad man, because we helped him be a bad man! What a bad man.

My gosh it is the CIA on one leg and mi6 on the other both screaming RAPE! what do you expect.

Then they hand a gun to the victim and get seats.

Guess here is a benefit of the majority.. no need to vote. -- Harper Democracy Strikes again.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Conservative+minister+misspeaks+over+extension+Libya+mission/5350922/story.html

Edited September 3, 2011 by William Ashley

[capricorn]

Guess here is a benefit of the majority.. no need to vote. -- Harper Democracy Strikes again.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Conservative+minister+misspeaks+over+extension+Libya+mission/5350922/story.html

I read your link William. Nowhere does it say there would be no vote. In fact, the point was made that any change to the Lybian mission would be taken to Parliament.

Yes, it will be our intention to extend the mission for a little bit, at least, and we’ll have to do that by going to Parliament,” Van Loan said on CBC Radio’s The House. “That’s what we have done for the previous motions where we have gained all-party support for the mission, and I think, I’d be optimistic that there’d be good support for that.

Van Loan’s director of communications, Fraser Malcolm, later clarified that the MP had “misspoke,” saying that the decision to seek an extension is in the hands of Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird and Defence Minister Peter MacKay, to then be put to Parliament for approval.

“If there was a decision to extend the mission, it would go before Parliament,” Malcolm said.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Conservative+minister+misspeaks+over+extension+Libya+mission/5350922/story.html

Perhaps in your mind, any time Canada has a majority government there is no democracy. Or perhaps you believe this occurs only during a Conservative majority?

[bush_cheney2004]