SF/PF Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Some of them do....billion dollar profits are nothing compared to gross revenue and investment. No it's not... The average net profit margin for the S&P Energy sector, according to figures from Thomson Baseline, is 9.7%. The average for the S&P 500 is 8.5%. So yes, energy companies are more profitable than many others...but not by an inordinate amount. http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/ The S&P Energy sector includes more than just the oil sector, chief. But I am interested in hearing your theory on how an industry with an alleged 10% profit margin can absorb wild fluctuations in commodity pricing that far exceed 10%, yet still remain consistently (and massively) profitable. Edited February 27, 2011 by SF/PF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) The S&P Energy sector includes more than just the oil sector, chief. Cheif, eh? Not very original. And. yea...that's why it's called the S&P Energy Sector. But I am interested in hearing your theory on how an industry with an alleged 10% profit margin can absorb wild fluctuations in commodity pricing that far exceed 10%, yet still remain consistently (and massively) profitable. Same as any other industry. We have seen several large consolidations with oil companies, oil services contractors, and refineries. The Seven Sisters no longer exist. Exxon-Mobil's total profit margin, by year: '98: 4.8% '99: 4.3% '00: 7.6% '01: 7.2% '02: 5.6% '03: 8.7% '04: 8.5% '05: 10.1% '06: 10.8% '07: 10.0% Government taxes, particularly in Canada, are bigger than any percentage of "Big Oil" profits. Edited February 28, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Nope... So you're saying resources aren't a provincial responsibility? That the feds can do what they want with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 We have seen several large consolidations with oil companies, oil services contractors, and refineries. The Seven Sisters no longer exist. Do your numbers account for this? Short term profitability is greatly reduced when shelling out large amounts of cash to buy up competitors. What do you suppose it does for long term profitability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Do your numbers account for this? Short term profitability is greatly reduced when shelling out large amounts of cash to buy up competitors. What do you suppose it does for long term profitability? I would hope it enhances long term profitability, otherwise it's a bad decision. Lean times in the oil business leads to consolidation just like any other business sector. The whole idea is to emerge stronger and better positioned on the other end. Accordingly, Exxon-Mobil's huge profits are a matter of scale, not obscene margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF/PF Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I would hope it enhances long term profitability, otherwise it's a bad decision. Lean times in the oil business leads to consolidation just like any other business sector. The whole idea is to emerge stronger and better positioned on the other end. Accordingly, Exxon-Mobil's huge profits are a matter of scale, not obscene margins. If Big Oil Co bought out a bunch of competitors one year and ended up shelling out more than they earned in revenues that year, wouldn't it be just a little misleading to claim that Big Oil Co. lost money that year? I mean, I suppose it may be technically true. But it certainly wouldn't be a very accurate or meaningful representation of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 If Big Oil Co bought out a bunch of competitors one year and ended up shelling out more than they earned in revenues that year, wouldn't it be just a little misleading to claim that Big Oil Co. lost money that year? I mean, I suppose it may be technically true. But it certainly wouldn't be a very accurate or meaningful representation of the situation. Depends on the merger, acquisition, or divestiture. The chart of accounts has numerous line items that could be said to "hide profits", but this is accepted accounting methodology. Companies in the oil business can and do go bankrupt. British Petroleum had to divest assets to survive the present and pending liability from the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. It's not all peaches and cream out there in the oil patches of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Who cares? There's nothing I can do about gas prices and the speculation other then to invest myself. I stopped worrying about gas prices long ago. I just pay it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 So you're saying resources aren't a provincial responsibility? That the feds can do what they want with them? Nope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Nope... I see. I must be missing something. Obviously things are subject to different rules if done by Liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I see. I must be missing something. Obviously things are subject to different rules if done by Liberals. Nope again... Same rules and regs. that applied with Sakatchewan's potash industry... Or now the takeover of the TSX... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Nope again... Same rules and regs. that applied with Sakatchewan's potash industry... Or now the takeover of the TSX... As well as both mining conglomerates I grew up around. INCO and Falconbridge are now both foreign owned. Canada's largest nickle deposit (the largest on the planet really) does not even belong to Canada now. Like what we saw in the USA, we are now seeing in Canada with the sell off of our natural resources. This trend needs to the stopped immediately and reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) As well as both mining conglomerates I grew up around. INCO and Falconbridge are now both foreign owned. Canada's largest nickle deposit (the largest on the planet really) does not even belong to Canada now. Like what we saw in the USA, we are now seeing in Canada with the sell off of our natural resources. This trend needs to the stopped immediately and reversed. Totally agree... I make special NOTE that any TIME Canada has a "Conservative" Government, historically and now again, it results in a "bargain basement selloff" of Canada and Canadian interests... Coincidence? I think not... Edited February 28, 2011 by GWiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Cool... Everybody happy or simply resigned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Totally agree... I make special NOTE that any TIME Canada has a "Conservative" Government, historically and now again, it results in a "bargain basement selloff" of Canada and Canadian interests... Coincidence? I think not... What exactly has the government sold off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 What exactly has the government sold off? Nothing but reality for some is like tinfoil against dental fillings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Totally agree... I make special NOTE that any TIME Canada has a "Conservative" Government, historically and now again, it results in a "bargain basement selloff" of Canada and Canadian interests... Coincidence? I think not... Seems like a type of Firesale to me .. everything must go !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Better question, what does Canada still own and/or do, and how long will it under the Harper Government? Oil refining - gone - US does it and sells gas back to Canada, the gas prices at the pump - US controlled, meat packing - done in the US Mad Cow taught us the mistake there, aerospace - US handout (Canadarms) rest US, even Canada's census now under US Lockheed Martin control, and so on and so on and so on... Applause to Saskabush for STOPPING the selloff of Canada's potash industry, the TSX - we'll see, next up? Take your pick, the Harper Gov. don't mind at all... Funny thing is I really don'r care cause NOTHING affects me, but YOU may find that living in YOUR OWN country that's under foreign or foreign corporate control has certain disadvantages for Canada and Canadians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yawn Good point....Canadian Pacific has owned rail and common carrier operations in the USA for many years, and continues to buy smaller American carriers. Should I be worried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Good point....Canadian Pacific has owned rail and common carrier operations in the USA for many years, and continues to buy smaller American carriers. Should I be worried? Yes, yes you should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Better question, what does Canada still own and/or do, and how long will it under the Harper Government? Canadians own tons of stuff. Will own it long after Harper is gone Oil refining - gone - US does it and sells gas back to Canada, the gas prices at the pump - US controlled, meat packing - done in the US Mad Cow taught us the mistake there, Gas prices are NOT controlled by US firms. Meat packing is done in this country. Plenty of abbitoirs around. We sell a shitload of prok to china and japan. So? Mad cow? Oi vey. Funny thing is I really don'r care cause NOTHING affects me, but YOU may find that living in YOUR OWN country that's under foreign or foreign corporate control has certain disadvantages for Canada and Canadians... You wont convince anyone with your "I dont care" when you take time to post " I dont care" ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Good point....Canadian Pacific has owned rail and common carrier operations in the USA for many years, and continues to buy smaller American carriers. Should I be worried? Not about Canada in particular because we aren't big enough to make much of a dent in an economy the size of the US. However, with the Canuck buck pushing $1.03 US with the US economy being in tough shape, conditions are better for Canadian acquisition of US companies than they have been in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not about Canada in particular because we aren't big enough to make much of a dent in an economy the size of the US. However, with the Canuck buck pushing $1.03 US with the US economy being in tough shape, conditions are better for Canadian acquisition of US companies than they have been in a long time. Hmmm, maybe you're starting to "catch on" to the POINT I was making... Conversely; is the US (and other countries to lesser extents) big enough to "put a dent in" Canada's economy? Be honest now... BTW - Read item 11 in the NAFTA agreement, you may change your mind about what you stated earlier... Oh, one more little thing about "Canadian Companies" buying up or "merging" with foreign companies, you may want to delve into that a whole lot deeper, things are not always (read seldom) what they seem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, maybe you're starting to "catch on" to the POINT I was making... Conversely; is the US (and other countries to lesser extents) big enough to "put a dent in" Canada's economy? Be honest now... BTW - Read item 11 in the NAFTA agreement, you may change your mind about what you stated earlier... Oh, one more little thing about "Canadian Companies" buying up or "merging" with foreign companies, you may want to delve into that a whole lot deeper, things are not always (read seldom) what they seem... If Canadian companies bought out twice as many American Companies as vice versa, there would still be far more American than Canadian companies. Unless you can change the relative size of our populations and economies, that will never change no matter which party is power. What of NAFTA section 11? It gives our companies the same rights as other NAFTA parters. NAFTA may have been negotiated by a Conservative Government but it was enacted by Chretien who did nothing to change it in 13 years of being in power. Do your own research, it's your thread. Edited March 2, 2011 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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