Union Busting in Wisconsin

[pinko]

It's not complicated....failing to meet output objectives during regular time is often "rewarded" with overtime, which the senior "brotherhood" has first shot at. At time-and-a-half or double time (triple time on holidays), union employees can pad their income quite well.

Anectdotally, my brother-in-law left a union telecom position (Quest Communications) because he was threatened over his "exuberant and too honest work ethic". I have personal experience with unionized workers in defense and automotive supplier plants, and some (not all) would milk the system just as I stated. For ratings sweeps week, a favorite local televison news story tactic is to spy on city, county, or state (unionized) workers for long breaks, inactivity, and dope smoking on the taxpayer's dime.

It really is humorous watching you and the other individual provide your stories mythical as they may be.

Edited March 15, 2011 by pinko

[bush_cheney2004]

It really is humorous watching you and the other individual provide your stories mythical as they may be.

Well, that's one way to pretend such behavior doesn't exist...just ignore it. The unions specialize in that don'tcha know!

Here is just one example of the "myth":

For days we watched St. Paul pot hole repair crews wasting time and taxpayer money, taking more breaks than actually working in some case, as St. Paul's streets remained in disrepair.

Now as punishments are being handed out, questions are being raised as to whether the city was tough enough on their employees.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s1742702.shtml

[bloodyminded]

It really is humorous watching you and the other individual provide your stories mythical as they may be.

He does this periodically.

[punked]

Next time read the fine print....the United States is not a pure "Democracy".

Yah but not letting Democrats vote is about the furthest away from Democracy that exists.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yah but not letting Democrats vote is about the furthest away from Democracy that exists.

But fleeing to another state to avoid "democracy" is OK? Got it.

[Scotty]

Very true....the union "brotherhood" will actually lean hard on any worker who outpaces the slackers, who are trying to force a big overtime payday. Seen it too many places....it's not rare.

How odd that I've never seen it in my life then...

[SF/PF]

It depends upon what you consider cause and effect. Looking prior to unions, management determined what was cause for dismissal. The introduction of unions made the process difficult.

If by difficult, you mean "requiring just cause" then we agree.

The decision for dismissal of an employee now had to be weighed against the effort involved in doing so. It isn't an abrogation of responsibility it is a determination of effort versus gain. If an employee at least provides a minimum of expected production it may not be worth it to pursue dismissal but any change favouring action to terminate may upset the balance and a call for dismissal made.

If management fails to implement and enforce a disciplinary system that documents and progressively disciplines workers for lack of production or other work related problems because its "too hard," that is their own problem to deal with. Often times, management is loath to deal with labour related issues not because it can't be done, but because it isn't conducive to promotion within most companies. Having a few labour relations blemishes on one's file often excludes a manager from climbing the corporate ladder. I suppose the union is responsible for the promotion policies of upper management, too?

My personal backgroud is in union industrial construction, and I've been in supervision many times over the course of my career from foreman to general foreman to temporary superintendent. And I can tell you, if management ever came to me about low production over a few days or a week and I said "Well the workers just don't want to work, they won't do anything" I would be replaced within an hour by someone that could get production.

If a company has management that is serious about having a productive and disciplined work force, they'll have it. Union or not.

Government tends to be least likely to pursue dismissal or termination of permanent employees because the cost is not determined by any profit/loss determination and government is large enough that it is easier to ship or transfer employees to other areas or by even limiting their obligations and work load if that proves to accomplish more in achieving objectives. Whatever works.

Sounds like a management problem to me.

[bush_cheney2004]

How odd that I've never seen it in my life then...

Is this how you decide if anything exists? How limiting....

[pinko]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leo-hindery-jr/obama-nomics-guess-who-ca_b_835872.html?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=031511&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily+Brief

[Shady]

But fleeing to another state to avoid "democracy" is OK? Got it.

That was the part that was sooo funny. The fleebaggers actually complaining about the democratic process. It completely destroyed the Irony Metre!

[punked]

But fleeing to another state to avoid "democracy" is OK? Got it.

You are right. All the Republican outrage about them leaving and not voting was just BS, they are ok with doing the samething. Hmmmmm. Go figure. BTW poll out today has 5 Republican down to Generic Democrats in recalls. Ouch keep digging that hole though.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are right. All the Republican outrage about them leaving and not voting was just BS, they are ok with doing the samething. Hmmmmm. Go figure. BTW poll out today has 5 Republican down to Generic Democrats in recalls. Ouch keep digging that hole though.

The only polls that matter happen in November. Your team lost.

[punked]

The only polls that matter happen in November. Your team lost.

Nope it looks like the ones coming in July are going to matter quite a bit. BTW that would be when the Recalls are going to happen, 5 Republicans who are getting recalled are down in the polls right now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nope it looks like the ones coming in July are going to matter quite a bit. BTW that would be when the Recalls are going to happen, 5 Republicans who are getting recalled are down in the polls right now.

It's not that easy....and Governor Walker cannot be recalled until at least one year in office (January 2012). You missed the fine print again.

[punked]

It's not that easy....and Governor Walker cannot be recalled until at least one year in office (January 2012). You missed the fine print again.

Getting rid of the Fitz twins would be just as good.

Edited March 16, 2011 by punked

[pinko]

Getting rid of the Fitz twins would be just as good.

Once those losers are removed from office what will they do?

Do they have any real job skills?

[bush_cheney2004]

Once those losers are removed from office what will they do?

Do they have any real job skills?

Doesn't matter..they can just join a union.

[pinko]

Doesn't matter..they can just join a union.

I doubt these long in the tooth anti-union Republicans have any job skills. Most likely they have the gold plated pension plan they are denying unionionized workers in Wisconsin.

I am sure you will enjoy reading this link http://www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/March11/0310/0310barcadaletter.pdf

Edited March 16, 2011 by pinko

[bush_cheney2004]

I doubt these long in the tooth anti-union Republicans have any job skills. Most likely they have the gold plated pension plan they are denying unionionized workers in Wisconsin.

You also doubted that US active duty military could sue the government...and you were wrong. More than likely you are very wrong about Republican job skills.

[pinko]

You also doubted that US active duty military could sue the government...and you were wrong. More than likely you are very wrong about Republican job skills.

No. You are wrong.

Do you live in Teaxs?

[Pliny]

It depends upon what you consider cause and effect. Looking prior to unions, management determined what was cause for dismissal. The introduction of unions made the process difficult.

If by difficult, you mean "requiring just cause" then we agree.

It won't be that easy to get an agreement.

By "difficult" I mean not economically practical and efficient.

In public unions where economic practicality plays little if any role there is no economic incentive to act and if dismissal is not an economic imperative then little will be done.

If management fails to implement and enforce a disciplinary system that documents and progressively disciplines workers for lack of production or other work related problems because its "too hard," that is their own problem to deal with.

...and it is being dealt with now in Wisconsin. It is a matter of responsibility. Yes Management should be responsible but economic practicality in a public union is not the their responsibility. If anything it is to acquire as much resources as possible. The larger the budget the better. The limits the taxpayer will tolerate will make them the final arbiter in the public realm. Economics is the ultimate decision maker.

Often times, management is loath to deal with labour related issues not because it can't be done, but because it isn't conducive to promotion within most companies. Having a few labour relations blemishes on one's file often excludes a manager from climbing the corporate ladder. I suppose the union is responsible for the promotion policies of upper management, too?

Management may be loath to deal with labour relations and office politics play a part but that irresponsibility will eventually show up on the bottom line costing both management and labour and possibly the enterprise.

My personal background is in union industrial construction, and I've been in supervision many times over the course of my career from foreman to general foreman to temporary superintendent. And I can tell you, if management ever came to me about low production over a few days or a week and I said "Well the workers just don't want to work, they won't do anything" I would be replaced within an hour by someone that could get production.

Would you feel justified in arguing against replacement? It is much easier in management to be replaced, isn't it? It's because you have a responsibility. Workers have less responsibility which is why management is there.

Management has it's tools and it is it's job to get production. Using that "excuse" would mean one doesn't understand his job, can't or isn't doing it and would never be in management in the first place.

If a company has management that is serious about having a productive and disciplined work force, they'll have it. Union or not.

That requires a raise and possible strike.

Government tends to be least likely to pursue dismissal or termination of permanent employees because the cost is not determined by any profit/loss determination and government is large enough that it is easier to ship or transfer employees to other areas or by even limiting their obligations and work load if that proves to accomplish more in achieving objectives. Whatever works.

Sounds like a management problem to me.

Yes, and the shareholders in WI have stepped in and voted out the board of directors.

Avoidance of a problem eventually gets to the level where something will get done. If nothing is done that's the end of the pay cheque for everyone and it's start over from scratch with; hopefully, a lesson learned.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Pliny

[bush_cheney2004]

No. You are wrong.

Do you live in Teaxs?

Where is Teaxs? You still don't have a clue about the USA, eh?

[pinko]

Where is Teaxs? You still don't have a clue about the USA, eh?

My son lived in Irving, Texas for three years and I visited him frequently there.

Nice try.

Edited March 16, 2011 by pinko

[bush_cheney2004]

My son lived in Irving, Texas for three years and I visited him frequently there.

Nice try.

So what? Your incessant references to family members who actually lived / worked in the USA is laughable. What a pretender wannabe...still hatin' on the USA.

[punked]

Looks like the Republicans are running out of steam they are now admitting they can not recall all 8 of the Dems and have moved their operations to focus on 3 although their are quite rumblings those recalls will fail too. The Dems are still targeting all 8 Republicans and think they can get them all in recall elections at least. Polls have 5 of them down to Generic Democrats. Over reach much?