Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 In New Jersey, 75% of all property taxes go just to pay for public sector salaries, benefits and pensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Why would I address your litany of nonsense? I was specifically refering to his plan. Another gutless cop out Professor.. You won't?? You can't because you know nothing other than the Fox News/Free Republic/Free Dominion ideological talking points... I'm not that shocked...You're as ill informed on this one as any other topic you've been pantsed on... And,as per usual,when backed into a corner of having to actually answer something in it's entirety,you play the "questionable sanity " card... On cue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 No silly...just the public sector unions...i.e. the ones I've been talking about all this time. I don't care what happens with private sector unions as long as it doesn't effect my wallet. Right... Because RTW people have never gone after the Labour Movement as a whole,right??? Private sector unions are,by design,an impediment to yourt glorious "free market",ya' know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 No silly...just the public sector unions...i.e. the ones I've been talking about all this time. I don't care what happens with private sector unions as long as it doesn't effect my wallet. Exactly. Private sector unions aren't sheltered from reality the way public sector unions are. Private sector unions don't take people's taxes to pay for their salaries, benefits and pensions. They use their own money their business and industry create. Einstein just likes to conflate the public sector union issue with private sector unions, because the public union position is virtually indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Right... Because RTW people have never gone after the Labour Movement as a whole,right??? Private sector unions are,by design,an impediment to yourt glorious "free market",ya' know??? Jack, it's time to take the tinfoil hat off. Stick to the issue at hand. Not the issue you think is on the horizon. Your conspiracy theories are getting a bit scary. You're sounding Glenn Beck-ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 You can't because you know nothing other than the Fox News/Free Republic/Free Dominion ideological talking points... Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with the last two, whatever they are. Are they related at all to the Illuminati or Bilderberg group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Exactly. Private sector unions aren't sheltered from reality the way public sector unions are. Private sector unions don't take people's taxes to pay for their salaries, benefits and pensions. They use their own money their business and industry create. Einstein just likes to conflate the public sector union issue with private sector unions, because the public union position is virtually indefensible. Sure Professor... Why are the Koch's,huge financial supporters of Anti Organized Labour groups like the CATO Institute (and other RTW groups) involved in a "budgetary crisis" in Wisconsin.. Why did the Ohio Governor admit this was about all legislated union busting yesterday afternoon on CNN?? Your the Labour Relations expert...Tell us !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Jack, it's time to take the tinfoil hat off. Stick to the issue at hand. Not the issue you think is on the horizon. Your conspiracy theories are getting a bit scary. You're sounding Glenn Beck-ish. Mr. NFL-NCAA has spent a lot of time on RTW wiki sites...don't spoil his dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Why are the Koch's,huge financial supporters of Anti Organized Labour groups like the CATO Institute (and other RTW groups) involved in a "budgetary crisis" in Wisconsin.. I don't know. Why are George Soros financially supported groups involved? Why are there so many socialist and communist groups involved and protesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with the last two, whatever they are. Are they related at all to the Illuminati or Bilderberg group? Still playing the "crazy conspiracy theorist" card to cover up your "expertise" in the realm of Labour Relations,huh Professor?? Post 1105...Answer it and prove you know what you're talking about,Professor... Thrill us with you're expert knowledge on the meaning of labour legislation!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleLeafAlliance Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I dismiss it because your version of economic freedom is only in your mind... And yours? Yours is a plan to redistribute wealth upwards into the hands of the few...That's not freedom... Wrong. The redistribution of wealth upwards into the hands of the few is the current corporatist system. And you're right, the current system is not freedom. Freedom is the ability to do what you want, when you want, so long as you don't impede another's ability to do the same. A free market economy does not result in redistribution of wealth to a few elite, it takes the power held by a few elite and puts it into the hands of consumers...i.e. the market place. In a free market everyone has a chance to create wealth, to live well. Will business owners make more than their employees? Yes, and why shouldn't they? It's their business...they assumed all the initial risks, and put up all the startup capital. In a free market anyone would be able to start their own businesses...free of red tape, and enjoy the fruits of their labour. No thanks...Not interested... You're not interested in being free? You feel better as the government's pet? And I could'nt care any less what some Albertan libertarian thinks of this proud Eastern Bastard... It's good to be proud...but don't let pride get in the way of your better judgement. Just pump the oil and make us some money.... We'll all make more money if we get government out of the economy, and greatly shrink its size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Who paid for WW2? Loaned money and materials to your broke dick Commonwealth, financed the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe, Cold War, etc., etc. Step back there cowboy. How about in 1757 when George needed a loan and Ezechial McGregor from upper canada lent him 5 pounds? You wanna remain stuck in the past, be my guest. Its your country that has accumulated $14 TRILLION in debt in 30 years. And that was the point. Part of the debt is paying for debt service...buy a vowel...get a clue. I'll type slowly so you can keep up. Debt service isn't principle in this case, its interest. Perhaps you should read the US Budget documents now and then so you can actually engage in a conversation of substance. Last time I checked, Canada had over a half a trillion in debt. I know there's a point there somewhere....... No wait that was just your head. If you want to engage in idiotic insults, tangential and non sequitar response to the topics at hand, then I'm fine with that as I can give as good (or in your case much better) as I get. OTOH I'd much rather engage in some sort of intelligent exchange. America's shit smells pardner, just like every other damn place on this planet. It is my sincerest hope that one day Americans will wake up and start wondering what the stink is. Edited February 24, 2011 by Jonsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I don't know. Why are George Soros financially supported groups involved? Why are there so many socialist and communist groups involved and protesting? Why are Corporate Fascists involved in anti labour movements???? Could it be about the power and control dynamic in the workplace??? Are you calling me a socialist/communist??? You know you're going to be asked to prove I'm a left wing ideologue,right?? If I remember,the last time you tried that things did'nt go so well for you... No selective quoting,Professor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleLeafAlliance Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 No one's buying your Capitalist Utopian theory...er...Nightmare scenario... Who's "no one", you? No argument here. And you don't have to "buy" it...it's coming...like it or not...and you'll be doing a lot better when it happens...in spite of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Could it be about the power and control dynamic in the workplace??? The public/government workplace. You know, the one where all the tax dollars go to. We all have a say in the power and control dynamic in that workplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Who's "no one", you? No argument here. And you don't have to "buy" it...it's coming...like it or not...and you'll be doing a lot better when it happens...in spite of yourself. I suggest you take the needle outta your arm, cause it sure as hell ain't coming to the land of Timmy's and Crappy Tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Step back there cowboy. How abot in 1757 when George needed a loan and a guy from upper canada lent him 5 pounds? You wanna remain stuck in the past, be my guest. Its your country that has accumulated $14 TRILLION in debt in 30 years. And that was the point. Tell us something we don't know. I'll type slowly so you can keep up. Debt service isn't principle in this case its interest. Perhaps you should read the US Budget documents now and then so you can actually engage in a conversation substance. And perhaps you should study basic debt retirement strategies. I know there's a point there somewhere....... No wait that was just your head. No I don't want you to give me (your) head. If you want to engage in idiotic insults, tangential and non sequitar response to the topics at hand, then I'm fine with that as I can give as good (or in your case much better) as I get. OTOH I'd much rather engage in some sort of intelligent exchange. America's shit smells pardner, just like every other damn place on this planet. It is my sincerest hope that one day Americans will wake up and start wondering what the stink is. That's all well and good, but methinks you had better work on your own shit farm first, and worry less about ours. Can you manage to that, podner? Or is your pathetic existence so dependent on what the Americans decide to do or not do that you must inject your two cents in some hope of saving your own ass? Hint: it won't work....the Americans are going to do whatever the hell they please, and there is nothing you can do about it. Seek true love elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 And yours? Wrong. The redistribution of wealth upwards into the hands of the few is the current corporatist system. And you're right, the current system is not freedom. Freedom is the ability to do what you want, when you want, so long as you don't impede another's ability to do the same. A free market economy does not result in redistribution of wealth to a few elite, it takes the power held by a few elite and puts it into the hands of consumers...i.e. the market place. In a free market everyone has a chance to create wealth, to live well. Will business owners make more than their employees? Yes, and why shouldn't they? It's their business...they assumed all the initial risks, and put up all the startup capital. In a free market anyone would be able to start their own businesses...free of red tape, and enjoy the fruits of their labour. You're not interested in being free? You feel better as the government's pet? It's good to be proud...but don't let pride get in the way of your better judgement. We'll all make more money if we get government out of the economy, and greatly shrink its size. Controlled Capitalism...The kind that raises the fortunes of all ships...Not just those with the financial wherewithall to take advantage of the theoretical scenario you're proposing... Some outside intervention in the economy is not a bad thing at all...That's not statism at all!!Statism is the Soviet Union...Statism is Fascist Italy....I'm not advocating for anything like that... What your advocating for is a theoretical economic free for all... No thanks..That will end up in a horrendous mess...And as oppressive as any statist nightmare scenario you can imagine... The rest of that is Libertarian wet dream/fantasy/unproven theory...Not interested... And don't worry about this Easterm Bastard's pride....I don't take anything from the oil pumping foothills too seriously...Just pump the oil and make us some money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 The public/government workplace. You know, the one where all the tax dollars go to. We all have a say in the power and control dynamic in that workplace. Not answering until you stop the selective quoting,Professor... Go back and quote the entire post,or don't bother... By the way,if this is the best you'vegot,it's nothing but RTW praddle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Who's "no one", you? No argument here. And you don't have to "buy" it...it's coming...like it or not...and you'll be doing a lot better when it happens...in spite of yourself. Keep your photos of Uncle Milty and Friedrich Von Hayek close by tonight.. You can give them a big kiss!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Private sector union members know that their employers could go out of business, so they have an incentive to mitigate their demands; public sector union members work for state monopolies and have no such interest.Private sector unions confront managers who have an incentive to push back against their demands. Public sector unions face managers who have an incentive to give into them for the sake of their own survival. Most important, public sector unions help choose those they negotiate with. Through gigantic campaign contributions and overall clout, they have enormous influence over who gets elected to bargain with them, especially in state and local races. Totally agree. So much that I posted teh Op-Ed by David Brookes in the New York Times that is taken from.The Wisconsin school system is not the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, where the workers were locked in and perished in a fire from which they could not escape. There is no place for public sector unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Totally agree. So much that I posted teh Op-Ed by David Brookes in the New York Times that is taken from. The Wisconsin school system is not the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, where the workers were locked in and perished in a fire from which they could not escape. There is no place for public sector unions. So,in your opinion,there's no way this could easily be put into legislation to affect private sector unions??? If not,why?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleLeafAlliance Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Please describe my "statism"??? And I hope it never gets bad enough to reach a horrific scenario you propose... Yours is essentially Corporate Fascism dressed up as freedom... No thanks... Do you even understand half of what you post? Corporate Fascism? Look up the definition of fascism...go ahead...do it. Fascism involves the collusion of government and corporate powers. It's something we see a lot of in today's society. Fascists abhor individualism, whereas I am all for it. I don't think you could find a more anti-fascist poster on this message board. I advocate freedom...complete, absolute, unfettered freedom...not freedom dressed up as something else...freedom...nothing but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Do you even understand half of what you post? Corporate Fascism? Look up the definition of fascism...go ahead...do it. Fascism involves the collusion of government and corporate powers. It's something we see a lot of in today's society. Fascists abhor individualism, whereas I am all for it. I don't think you could find a more anti-fascist poster on this message board. I advocate freedom...complete, absolute, unfettered freedom...not freedom dressed up as something else...freedom...nothing but. Good for you... Keep living in your foothill fantasy world... Give your photos of Uncle Milty and Freidrich Von Hayek a big,wet kiss goodnight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapleLeafAlliance Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Right... Because RTW people have never gone after the Labour Movement as a whole,right??? Private sector unions are,by design,an impediment to yourt glorious "free market",ya' know??? The Labour Movement? What a joke. Those same sheep who claim to be part of the "Labour Movement" shoot themselves in the foot with every Statist word they utter. If those who advocate for better treatment of workers or whatever it is they advocate had a clue they'd be in favour of a free market. The free market would create the best possible conditions for workers of all stripes. In a free market there'd be no need for a "Labour Movement"...the very idea would be obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.