Sir Bandelot Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) USA Today All you cheering for the success this gives to the people better watch out, lest ye get rochambeaud... ... Edited February 11, 2011 by Sir Bandelot Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 Who knows maybe there are some great and good minds in their military...Unlike America and Canada - they just might not fire military men that can think...I have great faith in the Egytian military - who had shown that they were loyal to their own country men and woman...Take our general who was stationed in Africa..Lalaird I believe was his name - much brighter and a better man than Harper...maybe a peaceful coup by the military would be nice here? wink wink - please don't hurt me CISIS....The problem is in our nation is that cops and soldiers are recruited who have a limited mental ability - thus this ensures that our arrogant status quo is never in danger - The hiring of monkeys is a good idea. Quote
GWiz Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Posted February 11, 2011 IF Egypt goes the way of Turkey,it would be a spectacular thing for that region.. Let's just say I'm extremely dubious that this will happen... If someone has to get the "OK" from the Egyptia military to rule that country,is'nt it reasonable to assume that this is still a military sponsored regime,this time,without the face of Mubarak on it? Why would the military in Egypt want things to change for them,as it surely would in a true representative democracy? The only thing another repressive Fascist/military regime will do this time will be to embolden people to go to the Islamofascist side of things to effect change.. This is the problem facing the region over the next 12 to 24 months... Well, I like what's happening... Some significant differences about Egypt's Military vs others in the region... Many senior and junior officers have been trained in U.S. Military Schools and have therefore also experienced "Democracy and Freedom"... The Egyptian Military are NOT "favorites" of an administration but a conscript Military meaning that all physically eligible men must serve for a time in the Egyptian Military, a nation of brothers in arms if you will... Kinda like the Military in Switzerland actually... In any and all interviews I heard today, including a spokesman for the MB, the word of the day was Freedom from oppression, of ANY sort, Religious, Military, or any other forms... The Military, being what it is, is 100% dependant on U.S. support for their equipment and their "lifestyle", and they know it... That's just a few of the reasons I'm pretty sure the ultimate outcome from this revolution will turn out favourably for "the West" and even for Israel... Even that spokesman for the MB on CBC newsworld said that all treaties with Israel should remain in force and be honoured by any new DEMOCRATIC Government in Egypt... Sounds GOOD to me so far... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Oleg Bach Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 For instance that big shot who just went to prison..a great military man - who would never coup the government seeing that he was to busy sniffing panties and ringing the necks of helpless woman. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 Well, I like what's happening... Some significant differences about Egypt's Military vs others in the region... Many senior and junior officers have been trained in U.S. Military Schools and have therefore also experienced "Democracy and Freedom"... Yep...I already told you this....trained with them myself. Fine chaps. ...That's just a few of the reasons I'm pretty sure the ultimate outcome from this revolution will turn out favourably for "the West" and even for Israel... Even that spokesman for the MB on CBC newsworld said that all treaties with Israel should remain in force and be honoured by any new DEMOCRATIC Government in Egypt... Sounds GOOD to me so far... Agreed...who's their Daddy when it comes to F-16's and brand new MBTs? Israel and the USA will help Egypt in its time of need. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Posted February 11, 2011 Yep...I already told you this....trained with them myself. Fine chaps. Thank you, as you say, you told me, and I appreciate ALL good information I get, I soak it up like a sponge does water.. Agreed...who's their Daddy when it comes to F-16's and brand new MBTs? Israel and the USA will help Egypt in its time of need. Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
pinko Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8210073/switzerland-freezes-mubarak-assets Quote
GWiz Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Posted February 11, 2011 http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8210073/switzerland-freezes-mubarak-assets Nice catch... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Well, I like what's happening... Some significant differences about Egypt's Military vs others in the region... Many senior and junior officers have been trained in U.S. Military Schools and have therefore also experienced "Democracy and Freedom"... The Egyptian Military are NOT "favorites" of an administration but a conscript Military meaning that all physically eligible men must serve for a time in the Egyptian Military, a nation of brothers in arms if you will... Kinda like the Military in Switzerland actually... In any and all interviews I heard today, including a spokesman for the MB, the word of the day was Freedom from oppression, of ANY sort, Religious, Military, or any other forms... The Military, being what it is, is 100% dependant on U.S. support for their equipment and their "lifestyle", and they know it... That's just a few of the reasons I'm pretty sure the ultimate outcome from this revolution will turn out favourably for "the West" and even for Israel... Even that spokesman for the MB on CBC newsworld said that all treaties with Israel should remain in force and be honoured by any new DEMOCRATIC Government in Egypt... Sounds GOOD to me so far... On the surface,I'm pretty happy with what is happening right now,as well... Fascism coming to a crashing end is always good! I really want to believe in what you say about the Muslim Brotherhood and what their representative said.I simply don't believe them.I don' believe they are a benevolent,democratically minded organization. I simply don't! I believe what you and I saw was a carefully scripted PR campaign to quell any fears of an Islamofascist uprising.I sincerely hope he's right,but I ain't buyin' it right now. Essentially,we have not had a revolution because the military establishment is still in place in Egypt and they,and they alone,will determine who leads that country.Doubtlessly,to thier own self-aggrandizment! What we have had is one despotic dictator removed because the military establishment no longer supported him.If they had supported Mr.Mubarak,they would have brutally squashed the "democratic" uprising. That this military hierarchy was schooled in the US does'n really give me alot of hope.It does tell me that they have been taught to crush any opposition that might rock the boat of the US State Department,vis a vis,Middle East foreign policy. Now,I say that with one caveat...The truly positive out of this is that whatever labour movement they have in Egypt has also stood up to this Fascistic government.Being a unionh man,I know that that defiance usually comes from the ground up..I mean,when the guy on the street has had enough and is prepared to go against the government in a country like that,you know the situation is serious. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Posted February 12, 2011 On the surface,I'm pretty happy with what is happening right now,as well... Fascism coming to a crashing end is always good! I really want to believe in what you say about the Muslim Brotherhood and what their representative said.I simply don't believe them.I don' believe they are a benevolent,democratically minded organization. I simply don't! I believe what you and I saw was a carefully scripted PR campaign to quell any fears of an Islamofascist uprising.I sincerely hope he's right,but I ain't buyin' it right now. Essentially,we have not had a revolution because the military establishment is still in place in Egypt and they,and they alone,will determine who leads that country.Doubtlessly,to thier own self-aggrandizment! What we have had is one despotic dictator removed because the military establishment no longer supported him.If they had supported Mr.Mubarak,they would have brutally squashed the "democratic" uprising. That this military hierarchy was schooled in the US does'n really give me alot of hope.It does tell me that they have been taught to crush any opposition that might rock the boat of the US State Department,vis a vis,Middle East foreign policy. Now,I say that with one caveat...The truly positive out of this is that whatever labour movement they have in Egypt has also stood up to this Fascistic government.Being a unionh man,I know that that defiance usually comes from the ground up..I mean,when the guy on the street has had enough and is prepared to go against the government in a country like that,you know the situation is serious. A mite cynical tonight are we? I believe! Watch what's going on my friend, this whole thing has been from the ground up from the get go... AND, more importantly, has encompassed the whole spectrum of Egyptian society, and while they have no formal leadership, the people of Egypt know exactly where they want to take Egypt... They also know to keep an eye on the Military, but they also know them since all men in Egypt have served in it... Right now I'm thinking it's more media hyperbol than anything else, controversy vs a good thing and democracy, we KNOW what slant the "reporting" is gonna take... We'll see where everything stands 6 months to a year from now with, hopefully, the right government and leadership in place... If I have a worry it's outside interference, not the people of Egypt screwing this up... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 A mite cynical tonight are we? I believe! Watch what's going on my friend, this whole thing has been from the ground up from the get go... AND, more importantly, has encompassed the whole spectrum of Egyptian society, and while they have no formal leadership, the people of Egypt know exactly where they want to take Egypt... They also know to keep an eye on the Military, but they also know them since all men in Egypt have served in it... Right now I'm thinking it's more media hyperbol than anything else, controversy vs a good thing and democracy, we KNOW what slant the "reporting" is gonna take... We'll see where everything stands 6 months to a year from now with, hopefully, the right government and leadership in place... If I have a worry it's outside interference, not the people of Egypt screwing this up... I agree that at the moment,in the euphoria of the moment,things look great. Fascist dictator deposed and it's sunshine and unicorns and rainbows for as far as the eye can see!!! The problem is when the inevitable power sharing takes place,the Islamofascists might not be so friendly if they don't get what they want.They never are!!! Inevitably,when the shite hits the fan with them...And it will...We wil see if the average Egyptian will stand up to them.I hope they do!!! Sadly,these thugs will keep on killing any,and all,dissent until they get what they want.It's not like there is'nt precedent for this. I agree that forces from the outside have the situation in Egypt in as much potential trouble as forces from the inside.This is a very fluid situation,at the moment... It'll be interesting to see the situation 1 and a half to 2 years out from tonight.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 A mite cynical tonight are we? I believe! Watch what's going on my friend, this whole thing has been from the ground up from the get go... AND, more importantly, has encompassed the whole spectrum of Egyptian society, and while they have no formal leadership, the people of Egypt know exactly where they want to take Egypt... They also know to keep an eye on the Military, but they also know them since all men in Egypt have served in it... Right now I'm thinking it's more media hyperbol than anything else, controversy vs a good thing and democracy, we KNOW what slant the "reporting" is gonna take... We'll see where everything stands 6 months to a year from now with, hopefully, the right government and leadership in place... If I have a worry it's outside interference, not the people of Egypt screwing this up... I'm inclined to agree. While there's no guarantee that the Egyptians will work this out for their better, the signs are very hopeful. As you say, the full spectrum of society has played a part, with both labour unions and professionals being important aspects of the uprising. Also, after an (arguably) conspicuous absence, women are out there too, defiant and seemingly irrepressible. And they did it peacefully. A largely non-violent uprising which forced a dictator from his perch. That--that alone--should make anyone who likes to talk about democracy very pleased. Outside interefernce remains a distinct possibility, unfortunately. But so far, so good. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Rue Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Nothing has really changed. All that has happened is a popular uprising was given the consent of the military to serve as the vehicle to jettison Mubarak and it is given the people a signal that uprisings can lead to the ouster of leaders-a dangerous precedent that once condoned repeats itself again and again if there is no stable infrastruture from which to implement democracy. The military still has its intelligence chief and senior officers in charge. They will do what is done in Egypt, find another face as figure head. The institutions needed to create and support a democracy do not exist in Egypt. Until they are created and that would take a great deal of hard workand major change in the culture of day to day Egypt, democracy can't come about. Democracy requires a judiciary uncontrolled by the government or military. It also requires a government genuinely run by civilians not the military. Itrequires the shedding of political police and the extensive network of coruption that have always run the Egyptian government. They also require a facility to assure bribe free, genuine voting. People who have never lived in democracy don't just suddenly engage in it. They need the required institutions to implement it for them. These institutions require specific expertise and professionalism that needs to be recruited and nurtured and can take years if not centuries to construct. Going on a street and revolting in itself is not democracy though it might be a precursor to it if there is momentum to then build the required institutions and support structure for democracy. The most probable outcome is a military officer will emerge as the next leader and pretty much do what Mubarak did...use the system to buy his support and play off feuding political interests to keep himself in power until like Mubarak it catches up on him. The euphoria will soon wear off and the masses will be back to soaring food prices and shrinking incomes and the anger that bubbled to the surface will seek emergence again. In unstable economic times, extremists feed on the instability to raise their profiles by offering hope. We have yet to see who will emerge in a country where most potential leaders left the country out of fear Mubarak's secret police would get them. The West is solidly propping the Egyptian military. As such, that in itself would seem to indicate the Muslim Brotherhood is not going to have an easy time trying to take over if that is their agenda. Also don't understimate 30% of Egypt's population that supported Mubarak. They are still there and will want their opinions and interests protected. They still will have their connections in government and the military for exerting influence. Edited February 12, 2011 by Rue Quote
GWiz Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Posted February 12, 2011 I'm actually getting a bit ticked off... With all the GOOD potential that can come out of the overthrow of the likes of Mubarak it seems the media's only intent is to stir up trouble for Egypt and Egyptians... The sad thing is they might succeed... 300 people died and many more were injured to accomplish what we all witnessed over the 18 days of the protest that turned into a revolution... Put yourself in the shoes of the Egyptians... Would you, after paying such a price, allow another form of autocratic government to rule over you? I sure as hell wouldn't... It's just like I've never felt safer flying because there's no way passengers are gonna just sit by and let some nut take over or blow up a plane as has been proven on several occasions already... I'm old, but if I saw something like that I'd jump him in a second without any thought for my own safety... Why not, the alternative of doing nothing you KNOW will be much worse, so you have NOTHING TO LOSE... That's what I see and hear from Egyptians, anybody tries to install an autocratic Government, including the military, they'd better be prepared to take on an 80 million population... So dear media, Governments and naysayers, get with the program and SUPPORT Egyptians, if you don't, you just may end up having 80 million (for starters) FREE PEOPLE turn against you... Egypt isn't Iran, not even close, but even Iran could have been handled a lot better and just maybe had a much better outcome... "As ye sow, so shall ye reap" is the most important thing to remember when dealing with people... If I hear one more time that the Muslim Brotherhood "might" come to power in Egypt I think I'm gonna puke, it ain't gonna happen... As for some Canadians and Americans on this board, those that don't vote because they don't like ANY politicians, you make me sick because you've just seen what REAL FREEDOM is all about and it sure as hell is worth making a choice and casting a vote... Ahhh, that felt good... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
bloodyminded Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Nothing has really changed. All that has happened is a popular uprising was given the consent of the military to serve as the vehicle to jettison Mubarak and it is given the people a signal that uprisings can lead to the ouster of leaders-a dangerous precedent that once condoned repeats itself again and again if there is no stable infrastruture from which to implement democracy. Yes, it's terrible that people understand they can peacefully dethrone the men they've never elected. Once that unruly mob doesn't understand its proper place--under the thumb of powerful men, so lonmg as they're friendly to the "good guys" [sic] --things can go very bad indeed. The military still has its intelligence chief and senior officers in charge. They will do what is done in Egypt, find another face as figure head.The institutions needed to create and support a democracy do not exist in Egypt. Until they are created and that would take a great deal of hard workand major change in the culture of day to day Egypt, democracy can't come about. And how in hell are the Egyptians supposed to create democratic institutions, if they are ruled by dictators and shouldn't (as you say) commit to the "dangerous precedence" of overthrowing them? It's a serious question: how? You're saying they need to institute democratic reforms...but they shouldn't get rid of their dictators. Hmmmm. A sticky problem, innit? Sure, they could wait till Mubarak or the next one messes up and angers the Americans..after which the Americans will try to force "democracy" through military means, killing hundreds of thousands of people (again). That method is working out spectacularly in the region. (I hope to hell you didn't support the Iraq War, Rue.) Edited February 12, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Posted February 13, 2011 Nothing has really changed. All that has happened is a popular uprising was given the consent of the military to serve as the vehicle to jettison Mubarak and it is given the people a signal that uprisings can lead to the ouster of leaders-a dangerous precedent that once condoned repeats itself again and again if there is no stable infrastruture from which to implement democracy. The military still has its intelligence chief and senior officers in charge. They will do what is done in Egypt, find another face as figure head. The institutions needed to create and support a democracy do not exist in Egypt. Until they are created and that would take a great deal of hard workand major change in the culture of day to day Egypt, democracy can't come about. Democracy requires a judiciary uncontrolled by the government or military. It also requires a government genuinely run by civilians not the military. Itrequires the shedding of political police and the extensive network of coruption that have always run the Egyptian government. They also require a facility to assure bribe free, genuine voting. People who have never lived in democracy don't just suddenly engage in it. They need the required institutions to implement it for them. These institutions require specific expertise and professionalism that needs to be recruited and nurtured and can take years if not centuries to construct. Going on a street and revolting in itself is not democracy though it might be a precursor to it if there is momentum to then build the required institutions and support structure for democracy. The most probable outcome is a military officer will emerge as the next leader and pretty much do what Mubarak did...use the system to buy his support and play off feuding political interests to keep himself in power until like Mubarak it catches up on him. The euphoria will soon wear off and the masses will be back to soaring food prices and shrinking incomes and the anger that bubbled to the surface will seek emergence again. In unstable economic times, extremists feed on the instability to raise their profiles by offering hope. We have yet to see who will emerge in a country where most potential leaders left the country out of fear Mubarak's secret police would get them. The West is solidly propping the Egyptian military. As such, that in itself would seem to indicate the Muslim Brotherhood is not going to have an easy time trying to take over if that is their agenda. Also don't understimate 30% of Egypt's population that supported Mubarak. They are still there and will want their opinions and interests protected. They still will have their connections in government and the military for exerting influence. I think you are totally wrong and that you, and pretty much all of the media, are greatly underestimating the Egyptian people... I said from the beginning that the Military would call the shots in the outcome... However Egypt's Military isn't like many other Militaries in the region, thanks mostly to the US of A... For the Egyptian Military to benefit from this revolution it will support the wishes of the Egyptian people, which is NOT any form of autocratic rule... Yes it'll take some TIME, but it will come about, because Egyptians are NOT as stupid as you seem to think... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jonsa Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 I think you are totally wrong and that you, and pretty much all of the media, are greatly underestimating the Egyptian people... I said from the beginning that the Military would call the shots in the outcome... However Egypt's Military isn't like many other Militaries in the region, thanks mostly to the US of A... For the Egyptian Military to benefit from this revolution it will support the wishes of the Egyptian people, which is NOT any form of autocratic rule... Yes it'll take some TIME, but it will come about, because Egyptians are NOT as stupid as you seem to think... Apart from Mubarak leaving, what other changes have there been to the existing power structure? The Military is still in charge. Sulieman stays on as VP until the election as does the cabinet. The secret police, police etc are still run by the same guys. There's something like 325,000 "plain clothes" security police like the ones that attacked the protestors. The judges and prosecutors who turned a blind eye to the excesses and crimes of the power elite are still in place. For all the hopey changy thing those are the facts. Does anyone here actually beleive that these guys are just going to yield the power they have accumulated over the past 30 years without a real fight? They served up Mubarek to placate the mobs and get them back to work. Let's see if in the next few weeks they release all those political prisoners, allow more freedom of the press and enable opposition parties to form and organize. That will be the bellwether of real change. Quote
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Posted February 13, 2011 Apart from Mubarak leaving, what other changes have there been to the existing power structure? The Military is still in charge. Sulieman stays on as VP until the election as does the cabinet. The secret police, police etc are still run by the same guys. There's something like 325,000 "plain clothes" security police like the ones that attacked the protestors. The judges and prosecutors who turned a blind eye to the excesses and crimes of the power elite are still in place. For all the hopey changy thing those are the facts. You must be watching some other event... Sulieman isn't calling the shots, he's out and was unacceptable to the people, he's toast and he better know it... The Military is in charge and their bread is buttered by the U.S. AND the general population of Egypt who brought this about and NOT any current remnants of the Mubarak regime... Those police and security forces you talk about tried to put the toothpaste back in the tube and couldn't and still can't... They too will either join their people or stay in hiding if they want to keep their heads... We're talking 300 dead and many more injured and all it did is make the people stronger and more willing to stand up against the regime... You think they did all that for nothing and will now meekly go back to same old same old? If you do you know nothing about human nature... One other thing you seem to have missed is that this wasn't an "orchestrated" revolution it was the real thing, a grass roots revolution much like the relatively peaceful overthrow of the Marcos regime in the Philippines back in 1986... I expect a simular and perhaps even better outcome... Like I said, Egyptians aren't stupid, they're well educated for the most part, and they are VERY aware of the rest of the world and the advantages a "western style" democracy offers them... Does anyone here actually beleive that these guys are just going to yield the power they have accumulated over the past 30 years without a real fight? They served up Mubarek to placate the mobs and get them back to work. Does anyone believe that the Mubarak regime was the sort to "share the benefits of power" outside his family and maybe a SMALL cadre of friends and associates? When you have a well equiped Military that's dependent on it's support (equipment and paycheques) from the U.S. it's unlikely to go against or act against its own interests... The same goes for the Egyptian beaurocracy, a significant number of which ended up on the side of the protesters turned revolutionaries... They too KNOW which side to be on and it isn't the remnants of the Mubarak regime... They also know, now, that Mubarak wasn't into sharing and I'm pretty sure they want to keep their jobs and to do that it's best to be on or join the winning side... Let's see if in the next few weeks they release all those political prisoners, allow more freedom of the press and enable opposition parties to form and organize. That will be the bellwether of real change. Yep, we'll see, and let's see what happens in September and who steps out and/or up as the leadership of a new and improved Egypt... It won't be perfect, nothing is, but I don't think it'll be all that bad either... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
GWiz Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Posted February 13, 2011 I'm inclined to agree. While there's no guarantee that the Egyptians will work this out for their better, the signs are very hopeful. As you say, the full spectrum of society has played a part, with both labour unions and professionals being important aspects of the uprising. Also, after an (arguably) conspicuous absence, women are out there too, defiant and seemingly irrepressible. And they did it peacefully. A largely non-violent uprising which forced a dictator from his perch. That--that alone--should make anyone who likes to talk about democracy very pleased. Outside interefernce remains a distinct possibility, unfortunately. But so far, so good. What people tend to forget is this was a protest over economic conditions that turned into a revolution and not something "orchestrated" by an entity with a specific agenda to take power... That makes all the difference in the world... The very fact that Egyptians did it without any real "organization" AND kept it peaceful is truly amazing and the best reason to believe in a good outcome for everyone including "the west" and even Israel... Except of course for certain other middle eastern countries, for them maybe not so much... We'll have to wait and see... This could even end up as a major turning point in human history... What better place than Egypt where much of civilized human (and maybe non human) history began? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Scotty Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 I'm inclined to agree. While there's no guarantee that the Egyptians will work this out for their better, the signs are very hopeful. As you say, the full spectrum of society has played a part, with both labour unions and professionals being important aspects of the uprising. Also, after an (arguably) conspicuous absence, women are out there too, defiant and seemingly irrepressible. City people, the urban educated. Give real democracy to all of Egypt and you'll find a state which will be more similar to Iran or Sudan than Turkey. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
lukin Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Do the Americans have any clue?? Quote
Scotty Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Egypt isn't Iran, not even close, In what way are they different, aside from Iran having oil wealth with which to help placate the people's anger? Both nations have a more educated, more westernized urban population, but a huge, rural population whose culture and values are largely the same as their distant ancestors. Their lower class, and rural populations are both extremely conservative Muslims who long for an Islamic state. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Timothy17 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) At any rate, no one can reasonably fault the Egyptians for wanting a serious and radical change. We sure can, if it ultimately be a fault. "The people," we are being told, want to be the government. Thus, they are -insomuch as they are personally responsible- culpable in the consequences of what that government does, again, assuming a negative turnout. Let's hope it is not. Pax, Tim Edited February 13, 2011 by Timothy17 Quote "Error has no rights." "Ab illo benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis. Amen." - Pope Pius XI, blessing a Protestant minister upon his request. The blessing is the one used over incense in the Catholic Mass, and translates, "Mayest thou be blessed by Him in Whose honor thou art to be burnt. Amen."
eyeball Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 They've "asked" Mubarak to leave, NOW... They are to take charge of the Government, coup like, but "friendlier" on behalf of the Egyptian people... Good....many have trained at American war college(s)...they know what to do. I think you are totally wrong and that you, and pretty much all of the media, are greatly underestimating the Egyptian people... I said from the beginning that the Military would call the shots in the outcome... However Egypt's Military isn't like many other Militaries in the region, thanks mostly to the US of A... These comments reek like the crap that Mubarak tried to peddle when implying he was with the people and that outsiders like Obama and the US were fomenting this crisis. And now I supposed to believe Egypt's military knew what it had to do because of it's close association with the US' military - like kind and gentle birds of a feather? I wonder how many Americans would be very upset at the thought of their own military being the power behind the scenes, the hands in the gloves of the people so to speak? No doubt some believe this is already the case and always has been. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Timothy17 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 These comments reek like the crap that Mubarak tried to peddle when implying he was with the people and that outsiders like Obama and the US were fomenting this crisis. When did he say this ? Source(s) please. And now I supposed to believe Egypt's military knew what it had to do because of it's close association with the US' military - like kind and gentle birds of a feather? Furthermore, this supposed "close association" with the US' military (as opposed to, or in conjunction with, U.S' administration(s), politicians, businessmen, etc. ?) : what is the basis for this claim of close association with the U.S ? It is bantied about as if common knowledge, which is fine of course, if it is true. Pax, Tim Quote "Error has no rights." "Ab illo benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis. Amen." - Pope Pius XI, blessing a Protestant minister upon his request. The blessing is the one used over incense in the Catholic Mass, and translates, "Mayest thou be blessed by Him in Whose honor thou art to be burnt. Amen."
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