Lady convicted for not filling out long form census.

[PIK]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Finley+stunned+court+verdict+census+case/4103217/story.html Edited January 13, 2011 by PIK

[bush_cheney2004]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=35914990209

[August1991]

This is stunning.

My own fear about this issue is not that people refuse to fill out a census form but rather that they fill the census form out with erroneous information, intended to advance a particular cause they believe in.

We go to great length to ensure the integrity of a single ballot in an election which, after all, amounts to a yes/no opinion on a particular candidate.

In a census form, OTOH, we answer numerous questions often numerically, many qualitative: hours per week, children per bedroom, languages spoken in the household. The census form is not a yes/no ballot.

And yet, a census form is very much like an election ballot. An individual has arguably greater sway over public policy through a census form than through an election ballot. By the simple fact of declaring (falsely) an extra person in a household in, say, Alberta or Quebec, a person could transfer several thousand dollars from one provincial government to another. In a democracy, it is hard to imagine how one person could have a greater effect on government decisions.

Or, how about two straight roommates of the same sex declaring a gay relationship simply to show their "progressiveness". "Doug and Bob are cool guys. They checked off the gay thing on the census form even though they're just sharing the apartment."

Simply put, I fear people treating the census forum as a ballot. There is no verification that census information is accurate and if anything, people have an incentive to promote their beliefs through exaggeration.

----

Curiously, I am not concerned about the issue of privacy. We divulge alot of private information to the State through our taxes. Other than objecting to high taxes, I think that most of us accept that tax information is a cost of living in a civilized society.

And tax information is more serious.

If Sandra Finley failed to complete a tax form, or falsely completed it, she would face jail time and no one would have any sympathy for her.

The census form is open to abuse. Ballots are the proper way to vote. Tax forms rightly carry the weight of prison.

Let's get our relationship to the State in order.

Edited January 14, 2011 by August1991

[Evening Star]

And yet, a census form is very much like an election ballot. An individual has arguably greater sway over public policy through a census form than through an election ballot. By the simple fact of declaring (falsely) an extra person in a household in, say, Alberta or Quebec, a person could transfer several thousand dollars from one provincial government to another. In a democracy, it is hard to imagine how one person could have a greater effect on government decisions.

Is this really that easy? The government already has a registry of who actually lives where through other means, including tax forms, don't they? And wouldn't it require a fairly large number of people to falsely declare that they have additional people in their households in order for it to make much of an impact on federal transfer payments?

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to taking stricter measures to ensure honesty and accuracy when people fill out the census. I don't know how we'd do that though.

Curiously, I am not concerned about the issue of privacy. We divulge alot of private information to the State through our taxes. Other than objecting to high taxes, I think that most of us accept that tax information is a cost of living in a civilized society.

And tax information is more serious.

If Sandra Finley failed to complete a tax form, or falsely completed it, she would face jail time and no one would have any sympathy for her.

Agree here.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Evening Star

[August1991]

Is this really that easy? The government already has a registry of who actually lives where through other means, including tax forms, don't they?

Canada's Revenue Agency understandably does not communicate any specific information to outsiders, and neither does Statistics Canada.

And wouldn't it require a fairly large of people to falsely declare that they have additional people in their households in order for it to make much of an impact on federal transfer payments?

ES, despite what they teach in school and what they show in Hollywood movies, one person has essentially no effect on government policy. The ability to transfer several thousand dollars is significant.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to taking stricter measures to ensure honesty and accuracy when people fill out the census. I don't know how we'd do that though.

"... to ensure honesty and accuracy when people fill out the census... " WTF? How do you propose to do that? For what purpose?

ES, you are either naive, a fool, or both.

Edited January 14, 2011 by August1991

[Evening Star]

ES, despite what they teach in school and what they show in Hollywood movies, one person has essentially no effect on government policy.

That's almost my point though. Even if one or two people were to falsely claim that they have additional people in their households, how much of a difference would that make in terms of transfer payments?

"... to ensure honesty and accuracy when people fill out the census... " WTF? How do you propose to do that? For what purpose?

I thought this is what you were advocating for in the first place?

[Evening Star]

Also, personal attacks are against the rules of this forum.

[Topaz]

So was this the person that call Clements and complained about the census? Why is she in provincial court when its a federal matter?

[Shakeyhands]

And well she should be, it's common knowledge that it is unlawful not to fill it out and return it. And further, those people who haven't registered their firearms should be brought before the Courts. Who do these people think they are anyway?

[Evening Star]

I thought this is what you were advocating for in the first place?

Oh, now I'm more awake and I see that you were probably arguing against having a long-form census in the first place because people can abuse it. OK, no, I don't agree at all. Tend to agree with Shakeyhands.

[wyly]

Oh, now I'm more awake and I see that you were probably arguing against having a long-form census in the first place because people can abuse it. OK, no, I don't agree at all. Tend to agree with Shakeyhands.

me too...the census is anonymous and really there's nothing on there that's intrusive, what's the big deal about the government knowing how many bathrooms are in my home my city already knows...people get worked up over the stupidest things sometimes...

[pfezziwig]

These forms provide info for private sector businesses so they can market strategically to you. Lets's trim some federal deficit fat and get rid of it. Besides, it's already a fact that the majority of people filling out forms enter misleading info deliberately.

[Shakeyhands]

These forms provide info for private sector businesses so they can market strategically to you. Lets's trim some federal deficit fat and get rid of it. Besides, it's already a fact that the majority of people filling out forms enter misleading info deliberately.

This is a hilarious post. Thank you.

[August1991]

That's almost my point though. Even if one or two people were to falsely claim that they have additional people in their households, how much of a difference would that make in terms of transfer payments?

And how much does your single ballot in an election make? (Let's be honest: None at all. The local candidate would have won without your vote.)

Or rather, my vote for the (losing) BQ candidate at least gave the party $2 each year.

Imagine if I felt strongly about an issue, and I had a census form before me.

These forms provide info for private sector businesses so they can market strategically to you.

Private sector firms rely on better information than census forms.

me too...the census is anonymous and really there's nothing on there that's intrusive, what's the big deal about the government knowing how many bathrooms are in my home my city already knows...people get worked up over the stupidest things sometimes...

Wyly, I think you miss the point here.

You sound like the guy in 1910 who pays property tax and then someone says you'll have to pay income tax - at about 1%. "What's the big deal? I pay tax now."

The big deal is how we report information.

Edited January 15, 2011 by August1991