Affirmative Action Explained

scribblet · December 29, 2010

Michael Hardner · December 29, 2010

A cartoon argument between a couple of idiots isn't relevant to anything we discuss here, is it ?

Scotty · December 29, 2010

A cartoon argument between a couple of idiots isn't relevant to anything we discuss here, is it ?

I don't believe anyone has made an argument here that the two cartoon figures didn't make. The only difference I see is the two cartoon characters didn't call each other names - until the end.

Saipan · December 29, 2010

Affirmative Action simply means "Caucasians need not apply". Such as in some police departments etc. Mostly government jobs.

Similar to (English) signs on whorehouses in Japan. "Only Japanese Gentlemen Only".

Bonam · December 29, 2010

Ha, I think that lady covered every defense of affirmative action I've seen on this board, and then some.

scribblet · December 29, 2010

It's apprapo for us these days as there has been talk about a deficit of democracy because there aren't enough female politicians. I don't see quotas or affirmative action as democratic, if it means they are appointed (by whom) as a means to fill a quota.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/time-to-lead/women-in-power/part-5-women-half-the-population-a-fifth-the-seats-in-parliament/article1754326/

Keepitsimple · December 29, 2010

That's funny! Thanks Scribblet.

scribblet · December 30, 2010

You're welcome -

thought I'd put this here - really how do we accomplish this making sure that the merit and qualifications are first.

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/12/29/16700671.html

A Liberal senator wants to use the power of Parliament to force women into the boardrooms of the nation.
Sen. Celine Hervieux-Payette, a former Montreal business executive, is behind Bill S-206. The bill would require all publicly traded companies, banks, insurance companies and trust companies to have 50% of their board of directors made up of wome

cont...

Smallc · December 30, 2010

On the other side, how do we know that merit and qualifications don't know give where to subtle, unconscious gender bias?

scribblet · December 30, 2010

On the other side, how do we know that merit and qualifications don't know give where to subtle, unconscious gender bias?

say what ?

Not much gender bias in qualifications or education,at least IMO, although education degrees are not always equal depending on where attained.

Once qualifications, experience merit education etc. are all considered, leaving some equal in all things, then that is where the decision would have to subjective. The person hiring would have to decide who to take which is where the decision could be based on race, ethnicity or gender.

Nothing is perfect, if a quota system or affirmative action is to be used then it's a given that some better qualified applicants will be passed over.

Smallc · December 30, 2010

Still, there is in many cases a systemic gender bias. It's a reality that hopefully will change over time.

Saipan · December 30, 2010

A cartoon argument between a couple of idiots isn't relevant to anything we discuss here, is it ?

Yes it is. It's about Affirmative Action.

And here you're just another "cartoon".

Saipan · December 30, 2010

Still, there is in many cases a systemic gender bias. It's a reality that hopefully will change over time.

Yes, even in justice. Men get always much harsher penalties for the same crime.

In divorce cases even worse.

Scotty · December 30, 2010

Still, there is in many cases a systemic gender bias. It's a reality that hopefully will change over time.

Systemic is the word they tend to use when they can't identify what practices are biased. IF the genders are unbalanced then there is presumed to be 'systemic' bias - unless the imbalance works in favour of women or minorities. You don't see the affirmative action people trying to address the gender imbalance in universities, for example, even though the proportion of males in many programs is far below their numbers in the population. Boys are faring worse than girls in schools. You don't see them crying out for a solution, for changing teaching methods to encourage boys.

DogOnPorch · December 30, 2010

We had a thread on this (funny) video already. This provocative l'il number as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeWL9HzVrWg

PIK · December 30, 2010

I hear now they want all RCMP officers patrolling the trans canada should be fully bilingual. Soon only quebecers will be able to get a good job in canada.

Edited December 30, 2010 by PIK

dre · December 30, 2010

Affirmative action is just the inevitable and unfortunately consquence of the way some people treated other people. You can whine about it all you want, but white/males brought it apon themselves. Suck it up, and stop crying about it.

Bonam · December 30, 2010

Affirmative action is just the inevitable and unfortunately consquence of the way some people treated other people. You can whine about it all you want, but white/males brought it apon themselves. Suck it up, and stop crying about it.

No, it is not at all "inevitable". It is a deliberate policy crafted by government in the attempt to achieve a specific goal. It is no more inevitable than any other government policy, which can be implemented or repealed. If, as many of us who look at it objectively realize, that the policy is ineffective or harmful then it should be discontinued.

Besides its ineffectiveness, the policy is inherently amoral and has deep ethical problems:

- institutionalized discrimination based on race and gender

- the punishment of individuals for the deeds of their ancestors

- the punishment of individuals of a given race for the deeds of prior generations that were not even their own ancestors, but just happened to have the same skin color

Also, the tone of your above quoted statement is that of a complete imbecile. Just thought I'd let you know.

dre · December 30, 2010

No, it is not at all "inevitable". It is a deliberate policy crafted by government in the attempt to achieve a specific goal. It is no more inevitable than any other government policy, which can be implemented or repealed. If, as many of us who look at it objectively realize, that the policy is ineffective or harmful then it should be discontinued.

Besides its ineffectiveness, the policy is inherently amoral and has deep ethical problems:

- institutionalized discrimination based on race and gender

- the punishment of individuals for the deeds of their ancestors

- the punishment of individuals of a given race for the deeds of prior generations that were not even their own ancestors, but just happened to have the same skin color

Also, the tone of your above quoted statement is that of a complete imbecile. Just thought I'd let you know.

No, it is not at all "inevitable". It is a deliberate policy crafted by government in the attempt to achieve a specific goal.

Yes it is... the pendulum had swung so far against some of these groups, then it was bound to swing back the other way and go past center. Weve seen this happen again and again in almost every modern country that has dealt with these issues. Society saw that these groups were way behind in many ways in part as a result of the way they had been treated. Women were posessions of men like a toaster or a lawnmower. Minorities were dominated, oppressed, or even enslaved. Even most white people knew these people had gotten a raw deal, and wanted to help them get back in the game.

- institutionalized discrimination based on race and gender
- the punishment of individuals for the deeds of their ancestors

- the punishment of individuals of a given race for the deeds of prior generations that were not even their own ancestors, but just happened to have the same skin color

Yup. As I said these policies are unfortunate. But the alternatives arent much better.

If, as many of us who look at it objectively realize, that the policy is ineffective or harmful then it should be discontinued.

Yup once theres broad consensus on that, the policies WILL be discontinued. But there isnt.

Also, the tone of your above quoted statement is that of a complete imbecile.

Stuff your grade school insults up your bitch ass. Your opinion and a 2 bux might get you on a city bus.

Edited December 30, 2010 by dre

Jack Weber · December 30, 2010

No, it is not at all "inevitable". It is a deliberate policy crafted by government in the attempt to achieve a specific goal. It is no more inevitable than any other government policy, which can be implemented or repealed. If, as many of us who look at it objectively realize, that the policy is ineffective or harmful then it should be discontinued.

Besides its ineffectiveness, the policy is inherently amoral and has deep ethical problems:

- institutionalized discrimination based on race and gender

- the punishment of individuals for the deeds of their ancestors

- the punishment of individuals of a given race for the deeds of prior generations that were not even their own ancestors, but just happened to have the same skin color

Also, the tone of your above quoted statement is that of a complete imbecile. Just thought I'd let you know.

Uh...Have you read Dr.King's opinion on Affirmative Action???

The problem with any policy like this is not that it was'nt/is'nt needed,it's that there seems to never be an end game...

Personally,I don't know when,or where,that end game is...

In hindsight,perhaps we should have been heeding the theories of Booker T. Washington,and those of cultivating Black self-reliance,instead of W.E.B. Du Bois and his "Talented Tenth" trickle down theories???

Bonam · December 30, 2010

Stuff your grade school insults up your bitch ass. Your opinion and a 2 bux might get you on a city bus.

Hmm, the tone does not seem to be improving.

Bonam · December 30, 2010

Uh...Have you read Dr.King's opinion on Affirmative Action???

The problem with any policy like this is not that it was'nt/is'nt needed,it's that there seems to never be an end game...

Personally,I don't know when,or where,that end game is...

Yes, that is certainly one of the problems.

dre · December 30, 2010

Uh...Have you read Dr.King's opinion on Affirmative Action???

The problem with any policy like this is not that it was'nt/is'nt needed,it's that there seems to never be an end game...

Personally,I don't know when,or where,that end game is...

In hindsight,perhaps we should have been heeding the theories of Booker T. Washington,and those of cultivating Black self-reliance,instead of W.E.B. Du Bois and his "Talented Tenth" trickle down theories???

I can see an end game, and the reality is that this policy is not very old, and it will take time.

But look at the case of women for example... theyre a majority now in colleges and universities, and the income gap is closing. I can see a time in the next couple of decades when the gender playing field is pretty much level, and theres no need for any more of these policies. We are moving in the right direction with other minorities as well, and AA has played a part in that.

Youre right though... an end game needs to be established and these type of policies need to end at some point.