Canadian doctors want YOUR views on healthcare

[Topaz]

Canadians can now go to a website and tell the healthcare system and doctors, what they think is the best thing for the system. http://www.healthcaretransformation.ca/en/

[Shady]

Sweet. My view is that we need a private option.

[dre]

Sweet. My view is that we need a private option.

The ones that cost 3 to 5 times as much as ours for roughly the same result? Sweet. Sign me up.

[Bonam]

The ones that cost 3 to 5 times as much as ours for roughly the same result? Sweet. Sign me up.

The ones that don't make me pay for other people's bad decisions, mishaps, and poor health.

[dre]

The ones that don't make me pay for other people's bad decisions, mishaps, and poor health.

Bullshit. Its still INSURANCE whether its public or private. People paying for other peoples mistakes is the ENTIRE IDEA behind insurance, whether its auto insurance or health insurance.

The only different is youll pay more for less.

[Bonam]

Bullshit. Its still INSURANCE whether its public or private. People paying for other peoples mistakes is the ENTIRE IDEA behind insurance, whether its auto insurance or health insurance.

The only different is youll pay more for less.

You have a choice whether to buy insurance or not. You have a choice what provider to buy insurance from. Personally, given the choice, I wouldn't buy insurance and would instead put that money into a savings account which I could draw from in case it was needed. That is, self-insurance. Or, if I did buy insurance, I would purchase it from a company that sold insurance exclusively to healthy young individuals.

Anyway, you are talking about some kind of imitation American system, just by default, your brain pattern is programmed into the American reference frame. Where's BC2004 to call you out on it when he's needed? There is nothing to say that if a private option were implemented in Canada it would need to look like the American system.

[dre]

You have a choice whether to buy insurance or not. You have a choice what provider to buy insurance from. Personally, given the choice, I wouldn't buy insurance and would instead put that money into a savings account which I could draw from in case it was needed. That is, self-insurance. Or, if I did buy insurance, I would purchase it from a company that sold insurance exclusively to healthy young individuals.

Anyway, you are talking about some kind of imitation American system, just by default, your brain pattern is programmed into the American reference frame. Where's BC2004 to call you out on it when he's needed? There is nothing to say that if a private option were implemented in Canada it would need to look like the American system.

If you dont buy insurance and you get a serious illness then other people have to pay for your care anyways. We dont just sit and allow people to die of preventable illness in the west, not in Canada and not in the US either. All you would be doing is dumping the risk on the tax payer by failing to insure yourself. You should be more responsible, ANYBODY can have a serious accident or get a serious disease.

Where's BC2004 to call you out on it when he's needed

Yeah! And where Rufus the stunt bum? Hed probably have some equally repetetive and naive shit to spout.

There is nothing to say that if a private option were implemented in Canada it would need to look like the American system.

Theres nothing to say that it would alleviate any of your concerns either.

Edited December 14, 2010 by dre

[Bonam]

If you dont buy insurance and you get a serious illness then other people have to pay for your care anyways.

Their choice, not mine.

We dont just sit and allow people to die of preventable illness in the west, not in Canada and not in the US either. All you would be doing is dumping the risk on the tax payer by failing to insure yourself.

If "the taxpayer" wants to assume risk for me that I did not ask "the taxpayer" to assume, who am I to stop this taxpayer of yours?

You should be more responsible, ANYBODY can have a serious accident or get a serious disease.

Why bother if the taxpayer is gonna pay for me anyway right?

[dre]

Their choice, not mine.

If "the taxpayer" wants to assume risk for me that I did not ask "the taxpayer" to assume, who am I to stop this taxpayer of yours?

Why bother if the taxpayer is gonna pay for me anyway right?

Why bother if the taxpayer is gonna pay for me anyway right?

Thats why the majority of countries that come out ahead when you compare patient outcomes to healthcare costs as a percentage of GDP dont allow deadbeats that dont pay.

What your essentially saying is that we should just let people who dont have insurance die when they get sick. I have a homework assignment for you. Move to a country that really operates like that, and see if you even last a year.

[Bonam]

Thats why the majority of countries that come out ahead when you compare patient outcomes to healthcare costs as a percentage of GDP dont allow deadbeats that dont pay.

Really? How does that work? Canada has no people that receive healthcare but don't pay? Methinks you are confused. Far from everyone is a net taxpayer, in case you forgot.

[Wild Bill]

Really? How does that work? Canada has no people that receive healthcare but don't pay? Methinks you are confused. Far from everyone is a net taxpayer, in case you forgot.

Actually Bonam, the numbers say that premise MUST be true!

Ontario admits to having some 484,000 more OHIP health cards in circulation than the number of citizens actually eligible. Many of these are Americans living near Niagara and Windsor. My wife has many friends in the medical profession in Niagara and it is common knowledge there of doctors having many patients that have a Canadian address but a New York State phone number.

Years ago Bob Rae's NDP Ontario government promised to address this problem by making everyone exchange their cards. Might have worked better if they didn't give new cards to anybody, including those who were committing the fraud!

To be fair, we shouldn't pick on Bob for having a dumb solution. None of the other parties since his government have even bothered to try! I guess they feel its not worth the trouble. Might save some money but not necessarily many votes. As always, governments don't really care about our money, just whether or not we will vote for them.

[Shwa]

The ones that don't make me pay for other people's bad decisions, mishaps, and poor health.

I'm sick of paying for roads I don't use; or museums in Sudbury or art galleries or welfare for immigrants that I don't use.

You already have a 'private' option. And you live in Seattle already, so you know what it is.

[pfezziwig]

Great, more discussions and studies to demonstrate healthcare's rising costs are unsustainable. What does this new website hope to achieve, convince the last 0.5% of the population we cannot afford to keep funding public healthcare entirely and expect good results? That's bold leadership by the CMA, status quo, with some good PR to justify their salaries while accomplishing nothing.

[wyly]

Actually Bonam, the numbers say that premise MUST be true!

Ontario admits to having some 484,000 more OHIP health cards in circulation than the number of citizens actually eligible. Many of these are Americans living near Niagara and Windsor. My wife has many friends in the medical profession in Niagara and it is common knowledge there of doctors having many patients that have a Canadian address but a New York State phone number.

Years ago Bob Rae's NDP Ontario government promised to address this problem by making everyone exchange their cards. Might have worked better if they didn't give new cards to anybody, including those who were committing the fraud!

To be fair, we shouldn't pick on Bob for having a dumb solution. None of the other parties since his government have even bothered to try! I guess they feel its not worth the trouble. Might save some money but not necessarily many votes. As always, governments don't really care about our money, just whether or not we will vote for them.

what should we learn from the number of americans obtaining our healthcare...it's better than the private option they can get in the US...and there is nothing to prevent Canadians having the private option in the US but extremely few do...

[bush_cheney2004]

what should we learn from the number of americans obtaining our healthcare...it's better than the private option they can get in the US...and there is nothing to prevent Canadians having the private option in the US but extremely few do...

Better in what way? Or do you just mean cheaper?

[The_Squid]

Why bother if the taxpayer is gonna pay for me anyway right?

EXACTLY!!! Why bother with a private insurance system if the taxpayer is going to pay anyway?

[Shady]

The ones that cost 3 to 5 times as much as ours for roughly the same result? Sweet. Sign me up.

No. The private options that exist in countries like France and Germany. A private option so that if I want to pay for my health care with MY OWN MONEY, I'm not forbidden by the government. That one.

[Guest TrueMetis]

No. The private options that exist in countries like France and Germany. A private option so that if I want to pay for my health care with MY OWN MONEY, I'm not forbidden by the government. That one.

Fine but you are still paying taxes to help pay for my healthcare.

[Bonam]

Fine but you are still paying taxes to help pay for my healthcare.

Yep. Better than not having any choice at all though.

[dre]

Yep. Better than not having any choice at all though.

Iv never called the police for help in my life and Iv never been to court, so I dont want to pay the portion of my taxes that go towards the criminal justice system. If I need police Ill just hire a private firm when I need it.

So you and I should be able to sort this out just between you and me. Ill pay your portion of taxes for healthcare and you can pay my share for the police, courts, and military.

[Bonam]

So you and I should be able to sort this out just between you and me. Ill pay your portion of taxes for healthcare and you can pay my share for the police, courts, and military.

Assuming we made the same income, I think I'd come out pretty far ahead in that deal.

[Shady]

Fine but you are still paying taxes to help pay for my healthcare.

I didn't say we shouldn't.

[dre]

Assuming we made the same income, I think I'd come out pretty far ahead in that deal.

Healthcare VS Police + Courts + Prison System + Military?

I betcha it would be pretty close, but Im not really sure.

The point is we ALL pay for things that we dont like and things that get used by other people. Not sure if you can escape that unless you dont live in a society.

[Bonam]

Healthcare VS Police + Courts + Prison System + Military?

I betcha it would be pretty close, but Im not really sure.

The point is we ALL pay for things that we dont like and things that get used by other people. Not sure if you can escape that unless you dont live in a society.

I never said I don't like healthcare.

[wyly]

Iv never called the police for help in my life and Iv never been to court, so I dont want to pay the portion of my taxes that go towards the criminal justice system. If I need police Ill just hire a private firm when I need it.

So you and I should be able to sort this out just between you and me. Ill pay your portion of taxes for healthcare and you can pay my share for the police, courts, and military.

I like your logic...