Saipan Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 The tax hikes will come sooner or later anyway Any evidence? Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 Any evidence? Where have you been? Revenues are down and the gravy train is a trickle. Most of the Ford's proposals for balancing the budget involve one-time cash injections from the firesale of city assets that won't have any impact beyond the next budget cycle. Now, I've never run my dad's sticker factory, but it's pretty obvious that the city will either have to increase taxes at some point, or reduce services to the point where Toronto becomes as livable as Detroit. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 I knew you're solution would be affordable housing. No way in Haides you'd think nice single family homes would be a good idea right? Sorta like they have in Oakville. There are already plenty of Condo's already on the waterfront in the west end so that's not a reasonable solution. So why don't we build homes for poor people. Take some of the most valuable real estate in the city and instead of turning it over to the private sector that might actually create some tax revenue. Or you could build a Regent Park like slum there. That would be great for the waterfront. Waterfront Toronto says they have a plan for the area but haven't really revealed it. So who's doing backroom deals. Doug Ford hasn't done anything about this yet, he's just revealed plans to do something. What's wrong with that? Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 I knew you're solution would be affordable housing. Yeah, it's looney. No way in Haides you'd think nice single family homes would be a good idea right? Sorta like they have in Oakville. No because that would be stupid. There are already plenty of Condo's already on the waterfront in the west end so that's not a reasonable solution. By that logic there's plenty of malls and amusement parks as well. Last I checked, Toronto's real estate market was white hot, so how many is "plenty"? So why don't we build homes for poor people. Take some of the most valuable real estate in the city and instead of turning it over to the private sector that might actually create some tax revenue. Right, because homeowners don't pay taxes. A mix of market and affordable housing along with commercial would be a completely viable and stable means of generating tax revenue. Or you could build a Regent Park like slum there. That would be great for the waterfront. Whoever suggested such a thing? Waterfront Toronto says they have a plan for the area but haven't really revealed it. So who's doing backroom deals. Yeah it's so secret that it's on their website. Doug Ford hasn't done anything about this yet, he's just revealed plans to do something. What's wrong with that? Because it's a retarded idea. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 Because it's a retarded idea. You said it was a backroom deal. It clearly isn't. You just disagree with the plans. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 You said it was a backroom deal. It clearly isn't. You just disagree with the plans. Ford claims to have everything lined up and people coming out of the woodwork. He claims there's a proposal on the table which some group of unknowns thought was, like, totally awesome. That suggests some degree of ground work has been done out of the public eye: in other words, backroom dealings. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 Ford claims to have everything lined up and people coming out of the woodwork. He claims there's a proposal on the table which some group of unknowns thought was, like, totally awesome. That suggests some degree of ground work has been done out of the public eye: in other words, backroom dealings. Sure but it needs council approval still. It's not like the shovels will be in the ground next week. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 Sure but it needs council approval still. It's not like the shovels will be in the ground next week. Well obviously. That's not really the point, though. This isn't the first time the Mayors Ford have moved to scrub an established partnership that's already cost millions of taxpayer dollars in favour of some pie-in-the-sky scheme they cooked up on a bar napkin at Chilis. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 Well obviously. That's not really the point, though. This isn't the first time the Mayors Ford have moved to scrub an established partnership that's already cost millions of taxpayer dollars in favour of some pie-in-the-sky scheme they cooked up on a bar napkin at Chilis. That's hyperbole. You haven't even seen the plans. I just heard Doug on the radio and he says they'll be released next Thursday. You're going to say that regardless. He also says there'll be plenty of Greenspace but Waterfront Toronto just wanted to build a giant park. No affordable housing BTW. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 That's hyperbole. You haven't even seen the plans. I just heard Doug on the radio and he says they'll be released next Thursday. The fact that there are fully realized plans drawn up already, before the city has even considered the question of taking over the land, before the other federal and provincial partners have been brought onside just proves my point about the backroom nature of this scheme. Besides: do I actually need to see Doug's Lego set to know that a shopping mall/ferris wheel/monorail is a dumb idea? He also says there'll be plenty of Greenspace but Waterfront Toronto just wanted to build a giant park. No affordable housing BTW. Interesting he'd say that since, once again, the plans are there for all to see. At this point, is there any reason to believe a fucking word DougRob says? It's been demonstrated on more than one occasion that the Fords will say pretty anything to advance their narrative, whether it fits the facts or not. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 The fact that there are fully realized plans drawn up already, before the city has even considered the question of taking over the land, before the other federal and provincial partners have been brought onside just proves my point about the backroom nature of this scheme. Besides: do I actually need to see Doug's Lego set to know that a shopping mall/ferris wheel/monorail is a dumb idea? Interesting he'd say that since, once again, the plans are there for all to see. At this point, is there any reason to believe a fucking word DougRob says? It's been demonstrated on more than one occasion that the Fords will say pretty anything to advance their narrative, whether it fits the facts or not. How long does it say that this will take? Toronto really needs more Libraries now. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 How long does it say that this will take? Dunno: is there a time limit? Toronto really needs more Libraries now. Spoken like a true philistine. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 See what's happening here is that the Ford's actually want to use this land to generate some income. Afterall it's some of the most valuable real estate in Canada. But what this Waterfront Toronto organization wants to do drag their heels on a project so they can make themselves seem useful for 15 years. I like how that article about what they want planned said "small shops" because if a money maker like Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire wanted to move in there that would somehow be a stain on the waterfront. After all with their plan it's just the taxpayer that's funding a majority of the project right? Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Dunno: is there a time limit? There should be. They've been at it for 7 years already with no results right? This is one of the reasons why people voted for Ford BTW. Years of governments dragging their feets and the public getting nothing for it. Edited August 31, 2011 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 The fact that there are fully realized plans drawn up already, before the city has even considered the question of taking over the land, before the other federal and provincial partners have been brought onside just proves my point about the backroom nature of this scheme. Besides: do I actually need to see Doug's Lego set to know that a shopping mall/ferris wheel/monorail is a dumb idea? Interesting he'd say that since, once again, the plans are there for all to see. At this point, is there any reason to believe a fucking word DougRob says? It's been demonstrated on more than one occasion that the Fords will say pretty anything to advance their narrative, whether it fits the facts or not. He's damned here by you no matter what he did that didn't included the status quo. If he said he wanted to do these things but didn't reveal a plan to pay for it you would have said he's being reckless. He says he has a plan to pay for this scheme and you say it's a backroom deal. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 See what's happening here is that the Ford's actually want to use this land to generate some income. Afterall it's some of the most valuable real estate in Canada. Hence the lucrative ferris wheel idea? Maybe they could put Mammoliti's red light district in there too! But what this Waterfront Toronto organization wants to do drag their heels on a project so they can make themselves seem useful for 15 years. Yeah, that's it exactly. After all, as you said, it's only some of the most valuable real estate in Canada (that happens to be sitting on a flood plain and is riddled with brownfield sites): no reason they can't just slap something down on there asap. I like how that article about what they want planned said "small shops" because if a money maker like Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire wanted to move in there that would somehow be a stain on the waterfront.After all with their plan it's just the taxpayer that's funding a majority of the project right? Where do you live exactly? Do you consider big box retailers a desirable neighbourhood feature? Would you live next to one? Incidentally, why no comment of Ford's little sin of omission with regards to Waterfront's plans or your own regarding their supposed lack of transparency ( I mean, how dare they hide their plans on the internet!)? Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 Incidentally, why no comment of Ford's little sin of omission with regards to Waterfront's plans or your own regarding their supposed lack of transparency ( I mean, how dare they hide their plans on the internet!)? Actually most of these "suburbs" you South of Bloorites seem to hate have small quaint Downtown cores with many independent stores. But they also have Strip Malls with Big Box stores, movie theatres, chain restaurants etc. Both are equally popular. It's all about balance. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 If someone is willing to pay the City of Toronto to build a Ferris Wheel I don't see a problem with that. Are they really that ugly? Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 Actually most of these "suburbs" you South of Bloorites seem to hate have small quaint Downtown cores with many independent stores. But they also have Strip Malls with Big Box stores, movie theatres, chain restaurants etc. Both are equally popular. It's all about balance. First: you dodged the question(s). Second: it's all about balance? What does that even mean? That for every X number of "quaint downtowns with many independent stores" you need X+/-N big box retailers? Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 If someone is willing to pay the City of Toronto to build a Ferris Wheel I don't see a problem with that. Are they really that ugly? The issue I have is it's not particularly original or interesting. The Fords' MO on this kind of thing is to look at other city's landmarks and then imagine the same thing here, but bigger. And why there? Why not at the CNE or the already kitschy Ontario Place? Who would put a giant ferris wheel right on the airport flight path anyway? Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 First: you dodged the question(s). Second: it's all about balance? What does that even mean? That for every X number of "quaint downtowns with many independent stores" you need X+/-N big box retailers? Am I wrong in assume you'd prefer there never to be Big Box stores anywhere? You asked if I would like to live next to a Big Box Store. It would actually be handy so I wouldn't have to get in my polluting car to go and buy groceries on the weekend. The Independent Bakery/Deli that's close to me doesn't have a butcher. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 The issue I have is it's not particularly original or interesting. The Fords' MO on this kind of thing is to look at other city's landmarks and then imagine the same thing here, but bigger. And why there? Why not at the CNE or the already kitschy Ontario Place? Who would put a giant ferris wheel right on the airport flight path anyway? You mean the Toronto Airport I'm going to assume you also hate? What's original or interesting about Soccer Fields and Parks? The Promenade type Mall and the Luxury Hotel could be kind of cool. Ford's big mistake is saying there'd be a Monorail so people could mock him with the Simpson's episode. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 Am I wrong in assume you'd prefer there never to be Big Box stores anywhere? That'd be nice, but no, it's not realistic. Do you honestly think Wal-Mart is the best use for some of the most valuable real estate in Canada, as you call it? You asked if I would like to live next to a Big Box Store. It would actually be handy so I wouldn't have to get in my polluting car to go and buy groceries on the weekend. The Independent Bakery/Deli that's close to me doesn't have a butcher. So convenience trumps all for you? Glad we established that. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Posted August 31, 2011 You mean the Toronto Airport I'm going to assume you also hate? What's original or interesting about Soccer Fields and Parks? They're actually useful? The Promenade type Mall and the Luxury Hotel could be kind of cool. Having spent my formative years in Edmonton, home of West Edmonton Mall, I can assure you: they aren't. Ford's big mistake is saying there'd be a Monorail so people could mock him with the Simpson's episode. Yeah. That was his mistake. Quote
Boges Posted August 31, 2011 Report Posted August 31, 2011 That'd be nice, but no, it's not realistic. Do you honestly think Wal-Mart is the best use for some of the most valuable real estate in Canada, as you call it? So convenience trumps all for you? Glad we established that. I just used Wal-Mart as an example. I'm guessing to plan here is to attract some high-end commercial establishments. They have this cool promenade type mall at the Fallsview Casino. I don't see why something similar would be bad for Toronto. Quote
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