CRTC holds hearings on rural broadband

[scribblet]

Should broadband internet service be a 'fundamental right' - sheez, we don't need the CRTC medddling into this. Should taxpayers have to help fund service to rural areas and should this include cell phone service. Okay, I'm not clear on why there are dead zones, probably because there are no towers, but really - a 'fundamental right'

I have a relative who lives about 15 mins. outside of Marmora, Ontario, he has no cell phone service, broad band or even regular phone service, therefore no dialup either. He has to pony up for satellite phone and internet because of his business. We are talking about 2.5 hours north east of Toronto where there is zip all - but really - a fundamental right to have broadband ?

Heck there isn't even a decent library, should that be a 'right, maybe a Tim Hortons should be a fundamental right too -

CRTC holds hearings on rural broadband

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/10/27/crtc-riural-broadband.html

“The burning question now becomes whether the commission has a role to play in the provision of broadband internet services where it is currently not available,” CRTC chairman Konrad von Finckenstein said at the opening of the hearings.

A number of countries around the world have made broadband internet access a basic right and have imposed goals for connecting all citizens with certain speed levels. Finland, for example, in July made a connection of one megabit per second a legal right, with 100 megabits promised by 2015.

Other countries, frustrated with their large internet providers, have seen their governments get involved with building out high-speed access — Australia, for example, is spending $43 billion to build a National Broadband Network.

A recent report found that 30 per cent of Canadian homes did not subscribe to broadband, despite about 95 per cent having access to available options. Among the questions the CRTC is looking to answer through its hearings is why that is.

cont....

[Michael Hardner]

Should broadband internet service be a 'fundamental right' - sheez, we don't need the CRTC medddling into this.

I wonder how Harper will handle this. It sounds to me like people in the cities paying for everybody's cell service, and since the cities aren't really for him maybe he'll buy into the idea.

[scribblet]

Will the Prime Minister have to get involved?

[RNG]

They choose all the tax breaks of living the rural life and now they expect me to finance their broadband? No way.

[scribblet]

What tax breaks? I live in a rural area where property taxes are almost double those in Toronto for the equivalent assessed value.

[Michael Hardner]

What tax breaks? I live in a rural area where property taxes are almost double those in Toronto for the equivalent assessed value.

Toronto pays out more in taxes than it takes in. Your double rate may not cover the costs of the services you consume, as costs per capita for infrastructure are lower in cities. For example, how many miles of road are there per person in your municipality.

This was the complaint of the mayors of Toronto since amalgamation.

[Shwa]

Should broadband internet service be a 'fundamental right' - sheez, we don't need the CRTC medddling into this. Should taxpayers have to help fund service to rural areas and should this include cell phone service. Okay, I'm not clear on why there are dead zones, probably because there are no towers, but really - a 'fundamental right'

I have a relative who lives about 15 mins. outside of Marmora, Ontario, he has no cell phone service, broad band or even regular phone service, therefore no dialup either. He has to pony up for satellite phone and internet because of his business. We are talking about 2.5 hours north east of Toronto where there is zip all - but really - a fundamental right to have broadband ?

Heck there isn't even a decent library, should that be a 'right, maybe a Tim Hortons should be a fundamental right too -

Well, pull out that Last Spike and stab the CBC...

I think the government has a fundamental responsibility in the development of nationwide infrastructure and this includes communications infrastructure. Whether they build it themselves and then operate as a crown corporation or they subsidize the building of it, it's their call. Feel the love.

One thing to keep in mind is that government services and opportunity are accessed through the Internet. If you can access your EI claim or get a fishing licence on the net in Toronto, why not 2 hours north of Marmora?

The upside is that a very healthy broadband infrastructure can spur economic growth in our beloved hinterlands and that is always a good thing.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

This issue could spawn an entirely different issue of the day with respect to the furtherance of development in this nation. A leader that took a slanted platform of nation building and fiscal prudence would be able to use this.

[scribblet]

In that case I can expect broadband up north at the cottage very soon, I hope.

Well, pull out that Last Spike and stab the CBC...

I think the government has a fundamental responsibility in the development of nationwide infrastructure and this includes communications infrastructure. Whether they build it themselves and then operate as a crown corporation or they subsidize the building of it, it's their call. Feel the love.

...............

[fellowtraveller]

There is plenty of precedent for city folk being obliged to subsidize rural services. Natural gas, private phone lines, electricity were all heavily subsidized by urban areas to pay the high capital cost to expand to rural areas.

If the proponents of broadband-for-all can sell the need for their service - like benefit to society - the CRTC will bite and oblige internet providers to do it. And citydwellers will pay for almost all of it.

[Shady]

If you can access your EI claim or get a fishing licence on the net in Toronto, why not 2 hours north of Marmora?

Because it's too expensive.

[Wilber]

What tax breaks? I live in a rural area where property taxes are almost double those in Toronto for the equivalent assessed value.

Ditto, my property taxes are over 50% higher than Vancouver for the equivalent assessed value. Most of the taxes Vancouverites pay that I don't, go to services they have that I don't, like decent public transit.

[ToadBrother]

There is plenty of precedent for city folk being obliged to subsidize rural services. Natural gas, private phone lines, electricity were all heavily subsidized by urban areas to pay the high capital cost to expand to rural areas.

If the proponents of broadband-for-all can sell the need for their service - like benefit to society - the CRTC will bite and oblige internet providers to do it. And citydwellers will pay for almost all of it.

Of course, city folk need to be reminded that those very cities in large part rely on rural areas for resources. If wheat shipments stopped, you would all be starving to death in about two weeks.

[guyser]

Ditto, my property taxes are over 50% higher than Vancouver for the equivalent assessed value. Most of the taxes Vancouverites pay that I don't, go to services they have that I don't, like decent public transit.

Not quite. The excess goes to your roads and infrastructure.

True transit is one unless you access but overall the rural benefits from the collective taxes of a large city.

[Wilber]

Of course, city folk need to be reminded that those very cities in large part rely on rural areas for resources. If wheat shipments stopped, you would all be starving to death in about two weeks.

They can eat their money, what's left over they can burn to keep warm.

[guyser]

If wheat shipments stopped, you would all be starving to death in about two weeks.

City folks pay for the wheat when they buy products containing wheat.

[Saipan]

They choose all the tax breaks of living the rural life and now they expect me to finance their broadband? No way.

I see no reason to pay for "arts", theatres, opera, hockey stadiums .....etc. I'll never see in far away Toronto. Why should I?

[Wilber]

Not quite. The excess goes to your roads and infrastructure.

True transit is one unless you access but overall the rural benefits from the collective taxes of a large city.

Yes, my higher property taxes do go to provide my roads and infrastructure. Because I live in a rural area, I spend more on fuel to use those roads meaning I contribute more in fuel taxes than a city dweller. Much of that infrastructure goes to provide city dwellers with what they need to avoid starving and freezing as well as getting their own products to market.

Some city dwellers seem to think there is no need for any surrounding country. Like it is just some inconvenience that makes it more difficult to get to other cities. Cities cannot exist without rural areas. Society as we know it cannot exist without rural areas. The idea that we are separate entities that somehow aren't co dependent is absolute nonsense.

[Shwa]

Because it's too expensive.

Too expensive for whom?

[Shwa]

In that case I can expect broadband up north at the cottage very soon, I hope.

Let's hope - you might even be able to start a true cottage industry and plan to stay there year round.

[scribblet]

Let's hope - you might even be able to start a true cottage industry and plan to stay there year round.

Not likely - unless global warming takes hold a lot more quickly

[guyser]

Yes, my higher property taxes do go to provide my roads and infrastructure. Because I live in a rural area, I spend more on fuel to use those roads meaning I contribute more in fuel taxes than a city dweller. Much of that infrastructure goes to provide city dwellers with what they need to avoid starving and freezing as well as getting their own products to market.

Some city dwellers seem to think there is no need for any surrounding country. Like it is just some inconvenience that makes it more difficult to get to other cities. Cities cannot exist without rural areas. Society as we know it cannot exist without rural areas. The idea that we are separate entities that somehow aren't co dependent is absolute nonsense.

Wilber, do the math. Likely there is no way your taxes, fuel or otherwise, are paying the full freight of your roads.(I dont know where you live so cant be sure)

For instance , TO sends $12B more in taxes than it consumes. The rest of Ontario benefits. Without us plenty of services would not exist, or would be in hardship without that money.

T'was always thus, will remain too.

[guyser]

I see no reason to pay for "arts", theatres, opera, hockey stadiums .....etc. I'll never see in far away Toronto. Why should I?

Oh probably because you like your road re-paved, rebuilt, the bridge fixed up, a new roof on the arena....and on and on and on it goes.

[fellowtraveller]

my higher property taxes

Unusual, around here rural developments pay less and sometimes much less than urban homes. They tend to pay more and sometimes much more for things like fire insurance and utilities.

Have you compared your rural govt budget to an urban budget to find the discrepancies?

[Wilber]

Wilber, do the math. Likely there is no way your taxes, fuel or otherwise, are paying the full freight of your roads.(I dont know where you live so cant be sure)

For instance , TO sends $12B more in taxes than it consumes. The rest of Ontario benefits. Without us plenty of services would not exist, or would be in hardship without that money.

T'was always thus, will remain too.

Build a wall around TO, don't let anyone or anything in or out. Keep your taxes and we'll see what happens. I know which side of the wall I would rather be on.