CRTC holds hearings on rural broadband

[guyser]

Build a wall around TO, don't let anyone or anything in or out. Keep your taxes and we'll see what happens. I know which side of the wall I would rather be on.

Dont be silly, we need each other. The rural needs money from the city, and the city needs produce and meat (plus a whack of other things) from the rural people.

But if you did, I probably would live outside the wall too!

[Wilber]

Dont be silly, we need each other. The rural needs money from the city, and the city needs produce and meat (plus a whack of other things) from the rural people.

But if you did, I probably would live outside the wall too!

Exactly, all the food, energy and raw materials that allow you to live in a city so stop acting like the rural areas are some kind of cross you have to bear.

[guyser]

Exactly, all the food, energy and raw materials that allow you to live in a city so stop acting like the rural areas are some kind of cross you have to bear.

Excuse me?

I never insinuated anything like that.

Just note, that rural areas benefit from the city that pays. The city doesnt take excess taxes from the rural (there arent any) to pay for city services etc.

[Wilber]

Excuse me?

I never insinuated anything like that.

Just note, that rural areas benefit from the city that pays. The city doesnt take excess taxes from the rural (there arent any) to pay for city services etc.

Maybe you haven't but others on this thread have.

When provincial and federal funds go to help providing your transit systems and any number of other facilities rural areas don't have, some of those funds come from rural taxpayers through their federal and provincial taxes.

[Michael Hardner]

Dont be silly, we need each other. The rural needs money from the city, and the city needs produce and meat (plus a whack of other things) from the rural people.

But if you did, I probably would live outside the wall too!

Silly is right. Who would want to live in a walled city ?

Credit goes to guyser for explaining economic specialization to the folk.

[Michael Hardner]

When provincial and federal funds go to help providing your transit systems and any number of other facilities rural areas don't have, some of those funds come from rural taxpayers through their federal and provincial taxes.

As was already pointed out, Toronto has a net negative tax flow so maybe you can explain how some of those funds come from rural taxpayers.

[guyser]

Maybe you haven't but others on this thread have.

Perhaps but I am not aware of it here.

When provincial and federal funds go to help providing your transit systems and any number of other facilities rural areas don't have, some of those funds come from rural taxpayers through their federal and provincial taxes.

As MH pointed out....

Yes it all goes into a pot and is doled out. Rural gets subsidised for roads and other infrastructure far beyond what they alone could afford.

I have no problem with any of that. I want roads to travel to when I am out driving, same as you.

I also do not hold that rural are anything else but people who like to live rurally. I do too...on weekends.

[Wilber]

As was already pointed out, Toronto has a net negative tax flow so maybe you can explain how some of those funds come from rural taxpayers.

Federal and Provincial governments contribute to the building of transit and other facilities that rural areas don't have. Rural people pay federal and provincial taxes. Fort McMurray probably has a negative tax flow as well and doesn't have near the infrastructure or facilities as Edmonton, Calgary or Toronto.

[Michael Hardner]

Federal and Provincial governments contribute to the building of transit and other facilities that rural areas don't have. Rural people pay federal and provincial taxes. Fort McMurray probably has a negative tax flow as well and doesn't have near the infrastructure or facilities as Edmonton, Calgary or Toronto.

Then Fort McMurray is also a net minus, along with Toronto and maybe the other cities you mentioned.

[Wilber]

Then Fort McMurray is also a net minus, along with Toronto and maybe the other cities you mentioned.

So what, there are advantages and disadvantages to living everywhere. It's a free country, you can live where you want.

[Michael Hardner]

So what, there are advantages and disadvantages to living everywhere. It's a free country, you can live where you want.

Well, yeah. And to give an argument to the other side of the question - how much money goes from rural areas to the cities in terms of general revenue, for goods and services such as purchased goods, bank fees and so on.

It's called an economy and as much as Toronto (and by Toronto I mean me) complains about the countryside costing them money, the cities act as the ultimate middlemen on all their labour.

So take that, Hardner...

[Wilber]

Well, yeah. And to give an argument to the other side of the question - how much money goes from rural areas to the cities in terms of general revenue, for goods and services such as purchased goods, bank fees and so on.

It's called an economy and as much as Toronto (and by Toronto I mean me) complains about the countryside costing them money, the cities act as the ultimate middlemen on all their labour.

So take that, Hardner...

Guess we agree then.

[dre]

Everyone has a stake in having in making sure we have good modern infrastructure in Canadian communities. Freedom of movement for both people and information is an economic necessity today. I wouldnt call broadband a "right" and clearly access is not going to penetrate into every nook and cranny but we should keep expanding coverage.

[Wilber]

Everyone has a stake in having in making sure we have good modern infrastructure in Canadian communities. Freedom of movement for both people and information is an economic necessity today. I wouldnt call broadband a "right" and clearly access is not going to penetrate into every nook and cranny but we should keep expanding coverage.

I don't think it is a "right" either but good communications are good for the economy. They make business more efficient no matter where it is. How can all those country folk buy all that stuff online without good internet access?

Edited October 29, 2010 by Wilber

[Shady]

Too expensive for whom?

Too expensive in general. Fast internet isn't a right. Especially if you live out in the middle of nowhere. Personally, I'd like to live out in the middle of nowhere and still be able to grab a coffee at Starbucks, and have my bank be in the neigbourhood. But that's not realistic. Either is this.

[Saipan]

As was already pointed out, Toronto has a net negative tax flow so maybe you can explain how some of those funds come from rural taxpayers.

Rural communities pay for things they'll never see. From hockey stadiums to theatres and "arts".

[guyser]

Rural communities pay for things they'll never see. From hockey stadiums to theatres and "arts".

No no they dont.

Understand how it works first, then comment.

[Saipan]

No no they dont.

Yes, yes, they do.

[guyser]

Yes, yes, they do.

oK, simple premise for you.

The city contributes $12B extra dollars than it takes in.

The rural areas contribute less than there respective expenditures for the area they live in.

Explain then how "Rural communities pay for things they'll never see"

[Saipan]

Explain then how "Rural communities pay for things they'll never see"

They pay federal and provincial taxes that go for things like hockey stadiums, theatres, "art"......

We get virtually nothing.

[Saipan]

Why should we even pay for CBC.

We don't care what weather, or mayor, is in Toronto.

[Michael Hardner]

We get virtually nothing.

Except roads, electricity, and EI to pay for it.

[Michael Hardner]

Why should we even pay for CBC.

That was all there was to radio and television to folks in the hinterlands for decades. Were you born after cable came in ?

[Wilber]

oK, simple premise for you.

The city contributes $12B extra dollars than it takes in.

Explain then how "Rural communities pay for things they'll never see"

And you get things like transit systems, hockey rinks, stadiums, concert halls, etc that rural communities don't have. What's your problem?

[Michael Hardner]

And you get things like transit systems, hockey rinks, stadiums, concert halls, etc that rural communities don't have. What's your problem?

It was pretty clear: there was an erroneous suggestion that the countryside pays for our rinks, stadiums etc. Not so.