Mid-Term Elections 2010: The Latest

[ToadBrother]

Again..this is your choice or belief....not mine. The USA will violently reject any such notion...it's in our DNA....starting with a certain king.

It will for now. No one can predict what will happen in a few centuries. I'm sure 1st century Romans couldn't imagine the sun ever setting on their empire, and yet, in four centuries, Rome was no more and the Emperors retreated to Constantinople and, for the most part, forever severed from the affairs of Western Europe.

Nothing lasts forever.

[GostHacked]

Again..this is your choice or belief....not mine. The USA will violently reject any such notion...it's in our DNA....starting with a certain king.

You won't be able to reject anything with violence. Police forces are much different than they were 30-40 years ago. Protect and serve, but it is not the public they are protecting or serving. The G-20 summit in Toronto over the past summer really showed me who they are protecting and serving. Citing special powers for arrest purposes when the special powers were never granted to them, resulting in illegal arrests and detainment. But again, it's all for our own good and safety. Not buying it.

Your gun has already been taken away. It's not a belief when the powers that be are telling you that what is going in is exactly how they wanted it to be. We fight each other instead of getting together and fight the system. Again this is why I use the A vrs B analogy.

If you can't recognize that you have been lumped into some category in order to be marginalized, then you will never initiate a revolution. You can go back and let the TV babysit you again if you want.

[Michael Hardner]

Nothing lasts forever.

To add: you can add 'decline' to the list of things that aren't what they used to be. Most would acknowledge Britain's fall from world dominance, but they aren't doing that badly, compared to Rome in the 4th century.

Furthermore, the rise of China or whomever is presumed to eclipse the USA will only happen with the assistance of global investors - who live elsewhere.

Likewise, this depression has seen record sales for video games and software, which I doubt happened with software sales during the great depression of the 1930s.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Nothing lasts forever.

Nor should anything last forever. Canada already knows about failed empires, eh?

[ToadBrother]

To add: you can add 'decline' to the list of things that aren't what they used to be. Most would acknowledge Britain's fall from world dominance, but they aren't doing that badly, compared to Rome in the 4th century.

Rome had no one to enter a strategic alliance with, no one to put a governor on the decline. But it's also important to observe that, other than a few possessions here and there, the Empire did indeed collapse, and very quickly, in some respects much more quickly than, say, the Byzantine Empire. And even now Scotland threatens secession from the Union, which would end even the United Kingdom.

I can't perceive what would lead to a collapse of the United States. A decline, yes, relative to China, but I view the two as being in essentially an economic alliance, so I'm not so sure we can view what's happening as a decline. I'm talking in the longer term of centuries. Who knows what demographic, social, political and external pressures will evolve? Constitutional government in the modern sense is still a pretty young creature. My caution is simply that every great power has believed that history was at an end, that the old rules didn't apply, only to find out that history is still very much happening and that the old rules still carry the same force they ever did.

Edited November 3, 2010 by ToadBrother

[bush_cheney2004]

You won't be able to reject anything with violence. Police forces are much different than they were 30-40 years ago. Protect and serve, but it is not the public they are protecting or serving. The G-20 summit in Toronto over the past summer really showed me who they are protecting and serving. Citing special powers for arrest purposes when the special powers were never granted to them, resulting in illegal arrests and detainment. But again, it's all for our own good and safety. Not buying it.

This is just more NWO paranoia....America is more violent by design. We even have protected "hate speech".

Your gun has already been taken away. It's not a belief when the powers that be are telling you that what is going in is exactly how they wanted it to be. We fight each other instead of getting together and fight the system. Again this is why I use the A vrs B analogy.

The importance of the individual will always win out in that scenario....and that includes fighting each other.

If you can't recognize that you have been lumped into some category in order to be marginalized, then you will never initiate a revolution. You can go back and let the TV babysit you again if you want.

I watch lots of TV...while cleaning my gun(s)!

[ToadBrother]

Nor should anything last forever. Canada already knows about failed empires, eh?

As should the United States, which was instrumental in bringing a few of them down.

[bush_cheney2004]

As should the United States, which was instrumental in bringing a few of them down.

Reprise: 'Tis better to have been a super-power and lost, than never to have been one at all. (With apologies to Sir William)

[M.Dancer]

(With apologies to Sir William)

Just Mr. William.

He was never knighted...

[bush_cheney2004]

Just Mr. William.

He was never knighted...

Thanks....but that is part of the "royal" joke.

[M.Dancer]

Thanks....but that is part of the "royal" joke.

Quite...he wasn't a commissioned officer either, Sir.

[Bonam]

Who knows what demographic, social, political and external pressures will evolve? Constitutional government in the modern sense is still a pretty young creature.

It's interesting that you mention all these factors but neglect the most important and most rapid of factors: the influence of technological progress on society. You mention the passage of centuries but the human-machine civilization in centuries will be utterly unrecognizable to the people of today.

[ToadBrother]

It's interesting that you mention all these factors but neglect the most important and most rapid of factors: the influence of technological progress on society. You mention the passage of centuries but the human-machine civilization in centuries will be utterly unrecognizable to the people of today.

The printing press, as revolutionary as it was, didn't end history either.

[Michael Hardner]

The printing press, as revolutionary as it was, didn't end history either.

But ... almost. Even to call it revolutionary seems like an understatement, as it changed how we communicate, and how we think of the past and present. The printing press was a key factor in the development of nation states as they exist today. So the Germany that was a collection of fifedoms came to be considered, by the National Socialists, as one nation with a long history.

And of course, the impact of technology is highly uncertain and can only be assessed long after the initial impact. For today's technology, we can and should discuss it as much as possible but we won't be able to turn it away.

[Shady]

Well, with so many posts, he is bound to be correct at least once.

I tried to warn people. I started a thread in August of 2009 titled The Democrats Are In HUGE Trouble 2010 wipeout. Last night shouldn't have been a suprise at all. You can't govern against the will of the people, on so many issues, for so long, without facing a backlash from the voters.

[ToadBrother]

I tried to warn people. I started a thread in August of 2009 titled The Democrats Are In HUGE Trouble 2010 wipeout. Last night shouldn't have been a suprise at all. You can't govern against the will of the people, on so many issues, for so long, without facing a backlash from the voters.

As the Tea Party will soon find out.

[GostHacked]

This is just more NWO paranoia....America is more violent by design.

I really wish it was just paranoia. When the powers that be talk about things these days, it's with global implications. Almost all leaders have talked about this NWO in some fashion. And they support it. The international global organizations are a step in that direction. The Internet brought us the global village. We have entities like the IMF, WTO, WHO, in many cases to dictate things to the countries of the world as does the UN.

All you need to do is look at the European Union as an example of what is to come for North America and the rest of the world. Call me crazy, but it's happening right before our eyes.

[bush_cheney2004]

I really wish it was just paranoia. When the powers that be talk about things these days, it's with global implications. Almost all leaders have talked about this NWO in some fashion. And they support it. The international global organizations are a step in that direction. The Internet brought us the global village. We have entities like the IMF, WTO, WHO, in many cases to dictate things to the countries of the world as does the UN.

The UN and EU have not exercised such consolidated authority very well in the recent past. Just ask Iraq or Serbia.

All you need to do is look at the European Union as an example of what is to come for North America and the rest of the world. Call me crazy, but it's happening right before our eyes.

You are crazy....the American "union" was the beginning of the end for the British Empire. You will have to kill the Americans first.

[ToadBrother]

You are crazy....the American "union" was the beginning of the end for the British Empire. You will have to kill the Americans first.

That's a peculiar claim, considering the height of the Empire was in the 19th century, after the Revolutionary War. Yes, they lost a good chunk of North America, but they still expanded hugely in Africa, the Far East and Oceania. I don't think your claim is supportable by any reasonable definition.

The decline didn't begin until after WWI, and I'd say the opening shot was probably the Statute of Westminster, which effectively made the Dominions independent of the British Parliament.

Edited November 3, 2010 by ToadBrother

[bush_cheney2004]

That's a peculiar claim, considering the height of the Empire was in the 19th century, after the Revolutionary War. Yes, they lost a good chunk of North America, but they still expanded hugely in Africa, the Far East and Oceania. I don't think your claim is supportable by any reasonable definition.

It was the beginning of the end if only because the bastard Americans would go on to displace them.

The roots of the American Revolutionary War struck at the heart of the British Empire.

Edited November 3, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

The UN and EU have not exercised such consolidated authority very well in the recent past. Just ask Iraq or Serbia.

Iraq and Serbia were both constructed conflicts. Essentially sanctioned by the powers that be.

[bush_cheney2004]

Iraq and Serbia were both constructed conflicts. Essentially sanctioned by the powers that be.

...but not the "powers" you identified (i.e. EU or UN). Hence, at any time the true economic underpinnings will assert themselves over any artificial union.

[GostHacked]

...but not the "powers" you identified (i.e. EU or UN). Hence, at any time the true economic underpinnings will assert themselves over any artificial union.

When I refer to the 'powers that be' I am not talking about the UN or EU specifically. And the new economy is the new artificial union. Again the European Union with the currency of the Euro hints at it.

[bush_cheney2004]

When I refer to the 'powers that be' I am not talking about the UN or EU specifically. And the new economy is the new artificial union. Again the European Union with the currency of the Euro hints at it.

But it's only a hint...the world saw just how impotent the EU was during the Greek crisis, having to rely on the real clout of the American dominated IMF to shore up the PIGS event in Europe.

[GostHacked]

But it's only a hint...the world saw just how impotent the EU was during the Greek crisis, having to rely on the real clout of the American dominated IMF to shore up the PIGS event in Europe.

The IMF is headed by an American and may be controlled by Americans, but that in no way shows it is American Dominated. Gotta pull back that curtain a little more.