The Toronto Star hits a new low in its attack on Rob Ford

[Shady]

You know, if there's one thing that Rob Ford and his supporters should be especially ashamed of (there are many reasons, actually), it's that they are going to force a lot of decent people to sully themselves by voting for Smitherman just in hopes of avoiding a Rob Ford win.

I see it as the opposite. I think Slitherman is such a vile and disgusting figure, many people are flocking to Rob Ford. He comes across as a normal and competent. I think most proper thinking people see Slitherman as everything that's wrong with politics and politicians.

[Wild Bill]

By the way: Rob Ford is a fuckin' moron and if you support him, you are too. Just a lil' FYI.

You know, I'm an old hippie. I grew up thinking we were helping create a world full of tolerance for each others ideas.

Every time someone like you makes a comment like this I think the whole hippie movement was a dismal failure! You are about as tolerant about people who disagree with you as Charles McVety...

[Black Dog]

That`s an interesting question.

My experience with leaders is that the good ones bring whatever their best skills are to use in leadership. While you can`t have an utter dolt as a good leader, I don`t think Ford qualifies as that.

I've seen precious little to support that theory.

A good leader can bring listening and compromise into play to succeed.

Being able to connect in people is a more important skill than being able to do binomial factoring in your head. As such, Rob Ford`s plain-talking everyman ... uh ... aspect (routine ? veneer ? act ?) is connecting with people right now.

Being able to connect with people is no more a qualification for leadership than a Harvard education.

...

Shady

I see it as the opposite. I think Slitherman is such a vile and disgusting figure, many people are flocking to Rob Ford. He comes across as a normal and competent.

There's nothing in his platform or track record to indicate that.

I think most proper thinking people see Slitherman as everything that's wrong with politics and politicians.

Rob Ford represents what's wrong with democracy. The triumph of the lowest common denominator.

You know, I'm an old hippie. I grew up thinking we were helping create a world full of tolerance for each others ideas.

Every time someone like you makes a comment like this I think the whole hippie movement was a dismal failure! You are about as tolerant about people who disagree with you as Charles McVety...

I am open to tolerating ideas that are antithetical to my own, provided they are logical and well articulated. Abject stupidity (as in Rob Ford) doesn't fit the bill.

[Shakeyhands]

I see it as the opposite. I think Smitherman is such a vile and disgusting figure, many people are flocking to Rob Ford. He comes across as a normal and competent. I think most proper thinking people see Slitherman as everything that's wrong with politics and politicians.

Why do you say that Smitherman (corrected your post for you) is vile and disgusting?

[Michael Hardner]

Being able to connect with people is no more a qualification for leadership than a Harvard education.

Well, do you consider that communication skills are a qualification ? If so, then reconsider your last statement. It's definitely a factor, IMO.

[Shady]

Rob Ford represents what's wrong with democracy. The triumph of the lowest common denominator.

I think he represents what's great with democracy. That competent people, no matter from what walk of life, can accomplish good things.

I am open to tolerating ideas that are antithetical to my own, provided they are logical and well articulated. Abject stupidity (as in Rob Ford) doesn't fit the bill.

Which ideas are abject stupidity? You haven't cited any examples. You've just called him names. Any idiot can do that.

Why do you say that Smitherman (corrected your post for you) is vile and disgusting?

His past behavior. Like the way he exploited his adoption, and his miserable failure as Minister of Health.

[Michael Hardner]

I think he represents what's great with democracy. That competent people, no matter from what walk of life, can accomplish good things.

Do you mean the family business he was born into or is political career ?

Successful, I agree... but competently managed ? Maybe if you consider that he managed success despite lawless behavior, impulsiveness, and tendencies towards obnoxious behavior ....

Is that what you mean ?

Surely, even if you agree with his ideas, you can't actually think he's a nice guy ! Look at the record...

[Black Dog]

Well, do you consider that communication skills are a qualification ? If so, then reconsider your last statement. It's definitely a factor, IMO.

I wouldn't consider Ford to be a good communicator. His public speaking abilities are appalling. What he does have is the ability to make simple declarations ("stop the gravy train!") that resonate with the lizard brains of his equally simple-minded base.

I think he represents what's great with democracy. That competent people, no matter from what walk of life, can accomplish good things.

What evidence is there that he's competent as a councillor or would be competent as mayor?

Which ideas are abject stupidity? You haven't cited any examples. You've just called him names. Any idiot can do that.

Where to start? In the TO municipal election thread I cited his ridiculous, retrograde transit plan, which hinges entirely on the province tearing up its existing Transit City agreement and finding a buyer for the already purchased streetcars. There's the fact that, despite basing his campaign around stopping runaway spending at city hall, the cuts he is proposing are by his own admission, purely symbolic, even as his other plans (slashing the land-transfer tax and vehicle registration fee) would cost the city millions in revenue. Basically his whole platform fails to withstand even the most cursory level of scrutiny.

Oh and as far as calling him names go, I didn't just call him names: I also insulted the drooling simpletons who would have him as mayor despite the glaring flaws in his personality and platform.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

I wouldn't consider Ford to be a good communicator. His public speaking abilities are appalling. What he does have is the ability to make simple declarations ("stop the gravy train!") that resonate with the lizard brains of his equally simple-minded base.

Communication includes framing your message so that the audience receives it.

[capricorn]

His past behavior. Like the way he exploited his adoption, and his miserable failure as Minister of Health.

And who can forget this.

So serious is he about the welfare of seniors, one of Ontario's most outspoken cabinet ministers said Wednesday he's prepared to don an adult diaper - and use it - to satisfy himself that elderly residents of the province's nursing homes are getting appropriate care.

Health Minister George Smitherman sent eyebrows skyward when he made the straight-faced suggestion in response to critics who say the standard of care in Ontario nursing homes is so bad, residents are spending hours on end wallowing in soiled diapers.

Those complaints have prompted him to "seriously consider" taking one of the diapers commonly used in Ontario nursing homes out for a test run.

"I've got one of these incontinence products - albeit a new one, not the ones that tend to appear at committee - on my desk and I'm really giving this matter very serious contemplation," Smitherman told a group of wide-eyed reporters.

"I want to have the right policy for Ontarians."

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=920948

For a cabinet minister, I found that outright bizarre.

[Shakeyhands]

walking a mile in their diapers as it were... shocking.

[Shakeyhands]

His past behavior. Like the way he exploited his adoption, and his miserable failure as Minister of Health.

Which was vile and which was disgusting? If I didn't know any better, one may think you were refering to his sexual preference.

[guyser]

Every time someone like you makes a comment like this I think the whole hippie movement was a dismal failure!

Ya know, i might agree with you, except its true , Ford is a moron and will only hurt the city further....which sadly is something I suspect you'll cheer about.

[Shady]

Which was vile and which was disgusting? If I didn't know any better, one may think you were refering to his sexual preference.

Nope. It has nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with his actions and responsibilities as a government official. Also, he's just a very miserable person. His cursing out a female volunteer being the latest example. And he refused to shake the hands of several students after participating in a discussion on the Michael Coren show a couple of years ago.

[Jack Weber]

You know, I'm an old hippie. I grew up thinking we were helping create a world full of tolerance for each others ideas.

Every time someone like you makes a comment like this I think the whole hippie movement was a dismal failure! You are about as tolerant about people who disagree with you as Charles McVety...

Charles McVety....

Who'll probably have a show on the new Fox News North because of that special level of tolerance that radiates from him every time he speaks!!!

[Michael Hardner]

And he refused to shake the hands of several students after participating in a discussion on the Michael Coren show a couple of years ago.

Is such rude behavior a factor in your voting choices ?

[Wild Bill]

Ya know, i might agree with you, except its true , Ford is a moron and will only hurt the city further....which sadly is something I suspect you'll cheer about.

Well, the polls seem to be saying the voters would rather have a moron who talks about CUTTING their taxes than another leftwing silkstocking socialist who blows their money like a drunken sailor...

Perhaps Ford will prove not to be smart enough. Life is not full of digital choices, after all. ALL candidates can be bad! Still, Miller and his council have appeared to be corrupt at worst and impractical at best, fulfilling every cliche about the left possible.

Maybe its too late? They may have screwed things up so badly that Toronto can no longer be saved! It may be doomed to become a perpetual drain on the taxpayers of the rest of Ontario and Canada, with 100 % gridlock and a civil service that runs like that of India.

Time will tell. Meanwhile, I really don't care about the city. I'm used to being taxed for its deficits. That will never change. I wouldn't live there at the point of a gun!

[M.Dancer]

Well, the polls seem to be saying the voters would rather have a moron who talks about CUTTING their taxes than another leftwing silkstocking socialist who blows their money like a drunken sailor...

Polls say otherwise actually....

With one month to go until election day, a new poll suggests George Smitherman would beat current frontrunner Rob Ford in a head-to-head race for Toronto mayor.

In a survey conducted by Ipsos Reid for Global News, former deputy premier Smitherman (48%) would narrowly beat city councillor Ford (45%) if they were the only two names on the ballot.

Among those absolutely certain to vote in a two-way race, 57 per cent would back Smitherman compared to 37 per cent for Ford.

http://www.globaltoronto.com/Smitherman+would+head+head+mayoral+race+poll/3586934/story.html

I'm going to call this one now. With Thomson out, and other to follow, the mayor's chair will not be going to a drunk driving loud mouthed boor..

[guyser]

Well, the polls seem to be saying the voters would rather have a moron who talks about CUTTING their taxes than another leftwing silkstocking socialist who blows their money like a drunken sailor...

We now understand that the polls are suggesting something different.

Perhaps Ford will prove not to be smart enough. Life is not full of digital choices, after all. ALL candidates can be bad! Still, Miller and his council have appeared to be corrupt at worst and impractical at best, fulfilling every cliche about the left possible.

I am not a Smitherman voter, in fact I only know that Ford cant be the guy. This city runs on a $9.2 BILLION budget, and know Ford cant run that. As for Miller et al, I agree 100%. Someone of substance should have stood up. That didnt happen, and we are stuck.

Maybe its too late? They may have screwed things up so badly that Toronto can no longer be saved! It may be doomed to become a perpetual drain on the taxpayers of the rest of Ontario and Canada, with 100 % gridlock and a civil service that runs like that of India.

Again with this? You must have meant perpetual net contributor....right? As in the hand that feeds the Province?

Time will tell. Meanwhile, I really don't care about the city. I'm used to being taxed for its deficits. That will never change. I wouldn't live there at the point of a gun!

And thats cool, I enjoy most of your slags against TO. Well....at keast the true ones

[Wild Bill]

We now understand that the polls are suggesting something different.

I am not a Smitherman voter, in fact I only know that Ford cant be the guy. This city runs on a $9.2 BILLION budget, and know Ford cant run that. As for Miller et al, I agree 100%. Someone of substance should have stood up. That didnt happen, and we are stuck.

Again with this? You must have meant perpetual net contributor....right? As in the hand that feeds the Province?

And thats cool, I enjoy most of your slags against TO. Well....at keast the true ones

Here's another slag! According to an informal poll we took on a national Canadian musicians' board, Toronto is the cheapest city in Canada for club gigs, by far! Runnerup was Hamilton. It seems the farther you get east or west of Toronto the better clubs pay, although these days NO club pays well, in any city.

The "hand that feeds the province" obviously spares only crumbs for its musicians. Yet in both Toronto and Hamilton live a rather large number of professional musicians! They just go somewhere else to make a living.

[guyser]

Here's another slag! According to an informal poll we took on a national Canadian musicians' board, Toronto is the cheapest city in Canada for club gigs, by far! Runnerup was Hamilton. It seems the farther you get east or west of Toronto the better clubs pay, although these days NO club pays well, in any city.

Thats hardly a slag WB.

The sheer number of bands looking for a gig in TO , any gig, means that band will take whats offered. If they can get a $100 and a bar bill, they're happy. I bet they pay more in Timmins .....they have to . Why else would any band go there ?

Geez, this is the best slag youve got, Im disappointed WB. You're better than this.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm going to call this one now. With Thomson out, and other to follow, the mayor's chair will not be going to a drunk driving loud mouthed boor..

Brave prediction. I think that he'll still take it... the safe bet.

[M.Dancer]

Brave prediction. I think that he'll still take it... the safe bet.

Would you stake a lunch pint at the Spotted Dick on it?

[Michael Hardner]

Would you stake a lunch pint at the Spotted Dick on it?

Do I have to meet you or can I stay behind a cardbord divider ?

[M.Dancer]

Do I have to meet you or can I stay behind a cardbord divider ?

I would prefer you send in the order via telephone and pay by CC