Carter-Obama Comparisons Grow

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah.... bomb them!! We know how well your recent wars have gone... maybe this time leave the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner in the closet until Americans stop dying from bullet holes....

Or maybe not......the Americans will do it their way...not yours. Sometimes that means a Carter approach....sometimes Bush.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." - President T. Roosevelt

[nicky10013]

I said the DPRK violated the NPT and the Agreed Framework....why is it so hard for you to admit that the DPRK did so? What do you have to gain except some twisted axe to grind with the Clinton and Bush administrations (foreign governments)?

But it is fun rubbing your nose in it!

A Broken Framework

As we now know, North Korea failed to uphold its end of the Agreed Framework. Appearing October 20 on NBC's "Meet the Press," Secretary of State Colin Powell stated, "When we told North Korea that we knew what they were doing, they came back the next day, admitted it, blamed us for their actions and then said they considered that agreement nullified."

Sen. Jesse Helms (R-North Carolina), the Ranking Republican Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee was not quite so reserved when he stated, "At long last, the truth has come out. North Korea has admitted that the Agreed Framework negotiated by the Clinton Administration is a falsehood."

"The bottom line is that North Korea was out of compliance with its international obligations in 1994 when the Agreed Framework was signed; it remained out of compliance throughout the implementation of the Framework; and it is today out of compliance with its international obligations," said Helms.

This is kind of funny. I've said this before and I'll say it again. North Korea had the technological and theoretical knowledge, not to mention plutonium which it had before 1994, well before the agreed framework. The North came out and said, we're now in violation of the Agreed Framework, we don't trust the Americans so we're going to build nuclear weapons. The Bush Administration turned around and said a HA! NK always been in violation of the Agreed Framework! The two statements only differ by a word or so, but are vastly different statements. The North has had open programmes simply because of deterrence. You can't deter anything with something no one thinks you have.

[jbg]

Proof. No offense but NK can't get anything across the boarder so I fail to see how this is true.

A proof is a proof is a proof is a proof.

[punked]

A proof is a proof is a proof is a proof.

Yep that is what I thought. I true republican.

[M.Dancer]

Proof. No offense but NK can't get anything across the boarder so I fail to see how this is true.

You realize of course that North Korea is a major arms exporter...?

[punked]

You realize of course that North Korea is a major arms exporter...?

Citation.

[Shady]

Citation.

N Korea helping Iran with nuclear testing

Telegraph

The Syria-North Korea 'connection'

BBC

Greece searches ship for North Korean arms

ATHENS, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Greek authorities were searching on Tuesday a cargo ship suspected of carrying weapons from North Korea to Syria, officials told Reuters.

The U.N. Security Council agreed in June last year a ban on the export of all weapons by North Korea.

The expanded sanctions were aimed at cutting off its arms sales, a vital export estimated to earn it more than $1 billion a year.

AP

[punked]

So what you are saying is NK is so bad at being a "weapons" supplier they can't even get a ship out? Yah I got it.

[nicky10013]

So what you are saying is NK is so bad at being a "weapons" supplier they can't even get a ship out? Yah I got it.

They do illegally export weapons.

[bloodyminded]

If we're going to determine a country's rogue status on the basis of illegal arms exports...well, let's just say we don't have to look quite as far as North Korea.

I guess different rules apply. Enemies are to be held to higher standards.

Edited September 29, 2010 by bloodyminded

[M.Dancer]

So what you are saying is NK is so bad at being a "weapons" supplier they can't even get a ship out? Yah I got it.

I agree with your iron clad logic. I recently read a story of the siezure of pounds of hashish....it stands to reason that no hashish ever enters into Canada.

According to U.S. officials and outside experts, Pyongyang has sold its military goods to at least 18 countries, mostly in Africa and the Middle East. That’s a good indication, officials warn, that North Korea might sell nuclear weapons if doing so would bring hard currency into the isolated, impoverished communist state.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15239173/

[nicky10013]

IMHO, N. Korea survived last time (the 50's) because the west was scared of what we then called Red China. That dog don't hunt anymore. The west right now could blast N. Korea back to the stone age (not much to move them 15 min.) in a heartbeat. And China would silently breath a sigh of relief. Lets stop sucking Kim Dong's dong. Do him and them now. (I know I got his name wrong but give a guy a break.)

There are 10,000-12,000 artillery pieces within range of Seoul. Any war would see that city's complete destruction. There are also bunkers all along the DMZ that can withstand nuclear blasts. That combined with the fact that they have one of the largest standing armies on the planet and are fanatical, it wouldn't be so easy.

[M.Dancer]

There are 10,000-12,000 artillery pieces within range of Seoul.

Incorrect. North Korea has an estimated arsenal of 13,000 artillery pieces from motars to long range howitzers..there are 10-12 thousand on the boarder...about 13 have range to hit Seoul.

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5

[GostHacked]

This is why members do not offer you "proof"....because you always pull this kind of stunt when faced with the obvious and conclusive counter information, which in this case, is a matter of public record:

1987 NPT Violation Ignored

After joining the NPT, a member state is required to conclude a safeguards agreement with the IAEA within 18 months permitting inspections of all plants using fissile materials. DPRK notified the IAEA 18 months after signing the NPT that it had been sent the wrong paperwork for the safeguards agreement--- that is, it received the form to be filled out for non-NPT safeguards rather than NPT safeguards. The IAEA responded by sending DPRK the correct form and giving the North Koreans another 18 months to complete it.

Apparently under Chinese and Soviet pressure, neither the IAEA nor the Reagan or Bush administrations brought pressure on DPRK to complete its inspections arrangement with the IAEA, despite this clear violation of the NPT.

In 1989, DPRK shut down its 5 megawatt reactor for about three months with no IAEA inspectors present. It is suspected of having removed fuel containing enough plutonium for one or two bombs for its nuclear-weapons program. DPRK did not enter into an NPT safeguards agreement with the IAEA until 1992, more than six years after joining the treaty.

http://www.nci.org/n/nkib1.htm

Once you withdraw from the NPT, as the North Korean's have, then none of this means diddly.

[nicky10013]

Incorrect. North Korea has an estimated arsenal of 13,000 artillery pieces from motars to long range howitzers..there are 10-12 thousand on the boarder...about 13 have range to hit Seoul.

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5

Did you not read your own article? Let's take a look at what it says in it's entirety.

North Korea is known to have the world's largest artillery force.

South Korea's capital city is only 35 miles from the border.

Although the range of Kim Jong-il's arsenal is fodder for debate, it's certain the rogue dictator could hit Seoul with many shells in a matter of hours. He did take a few potshots last January. This threat is a key reason North Korea can bully its neighbor and stand up to US intervention.

[M.Dancer]

Did you not read your own article? Let's take a look at what it says in it's entirety.

Look at slide two. Thew ranges of known positions

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5#and-theyre-all-aimed-at-seoul-2

And if you wanto claim that I did not read it in it's entirety, why then did you not copy this?

Most artillery sites won't reach Seoul... but at least 17 larger guns will

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5#ixzz112nLDy2J

And the site that the link references goes further....

Contrary to popular belief, these are the only North Korean artillery guns (or MRLS for that matter!) which can reach central Seoul from behind the North Korean Border. Although the system is likely to be employed in a regular mobile artillery manner, they would be rather exposed if deployed sufficiently close to the border to make such a bombardment. There are only 17 HARTS (hardened Artillery Sites, see later) within 55km of central Seoul.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29

[nicky10013]

Look at slide two. Thew ranges of known positions

http://www.businessinsider.com/map-of-the-day-how-north-korea-could-destroy-seoul-in-two-hours-2010-5#and-theyre-all-aimed-at-seoul-2

And if you wanto claim that I did not read it in it's entirety, why then did you not copy this?

And the site that the link references goes further....

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29

Ah, so your source is "Planeman" on militaryphotos.net. The CIA should hire him! :lol: