If iggy was smart and really cared

[Evening Star]

Would you be in favour of a reformed gun registry that was more comparable to vehicle registration then?

[M.Dancer]

Would you be in favour of a reformed gun registry that was more comparable to vehicle registration then?

No....I would be in favour of stringent firearms control. The registry is not firearms control. It is a thingy. A nothing, a sop, a compendium of hunters and sportmen...

I would say it was a tax grab if it wasn't for the fact that it is a sink hole.

[waldo]

clearly, you were trying to make some point concerning vehicle registration... I appreciate you have difficulty (an obvious avoidance) in elaborating on what point you were attempting to convey about vehicle registrations. You're the only one speaking of a national vehicle registry... oh wait... I get your point now! You're in favour of regional (provincial?) gun registries... you just don't like this whole 'national' thingee - hey, Dancer? That's your point, right?

The point is, and I realize that this may be hard for you, being the partisan that you are....there is no comparison with the firearms registry and vehicle registry, the point that Topaz was struggling to make and that you are flailing to find...

You do not need, for instance, once your car is on blocks, to re-register every 5 years. Nor if you want to sell your vehicle does the buyer need a drivers license to buy it.

Still struggling?

standard Dancer response where the qualifications never come forward initially... the overall salient point of comparison is the fact opponents of the gun-registry fully comply with registering their vehicles, but somehow... somehow... take exception to being asked to register their guns. Additionally, the point you raised in your initial question, where you ask if vehicle registration is required if a vehicle has been sitting for a decade, speaks to whether there is an unqualified need for vehicle registration, outright? The additional salient point of comparison is that the final point of vehicle registration is on record... that should you choose to again drive that vehicle, you will need to renew that registration... that should you sell that vehicle to someone, their subsequent attempt to register that vehicle (as sold by you) must include a transferring bill of sale from you. Your mentioning a 5 year renewal aspect is simply your standard after the fact, relatively inconsequential (in comparison), qualification you choose to play-up.

are you... still struggling?

[Topaz]

Dancer, do you own a gun, hand or long? If law says you have to register it , you register it or get ready to pay a fine or whatever the the law says. As I said before, we have to register other things, so why should long gun owners get a break? Why can't the Tories make compromises to the registery to make everyone happy? Why? Because because they are using this for an election, to get more votes. Just watch what happens if this does not go their way.

[M.Dancer]

blah blah blah...

are you... still struggling?

So you are saying that the registering your vehichle is the same as registering your rifle?

Is that the point you wish to make?

[M.Dancer]

Dancer, do you own a gun, hand or long? If law says you have to register it , you register it or get ready to pay a fine or whatever the the law says. As I said before, we have to register other things, so why should long gun owners get a break? Why can't the Tories make compromises to the registery to make everyone happy? Why? Because because they are using this for an election, to get more votes. Just watch what happens if this does not go their way.

Would you be okay if Ottawa said you had to register your talking toaster?

[waldo]

standard Dancer response where the qualifications never come forward initially... the overall salient point of comparison is the fact opponents of the gun-registry fully comply with registering their vehicles, but somehow... somehow... take exception to being asked to register their guns. Additionally, the point you raised in your initial question, where you ask if vehicle registration is required if a vehicle has been sitting for a decade, speaks to whether there is an unqualified need for vehicle registration, outright? The additional salient point of comparison is that the final point of vehicle registration is on record... that should you choose to again drive that vehicle, you will need to renew that registration... that should you sell that vehicle to someone, their subsequent attempt to register that vehicle (as sold by you) must include a transferring bill of sale from you. Your mentioning a 5 year renewal aspect is simply your standard after the fact, relatively inconsequential (in comparison), qualification you choose to play-up.

are you... still struggling?

So you are saying that the registering your vehichle is the same as registering your rifle?

Is that the point you wish to make?

so you are saying that not registering your vehicle is the same as not registering your rifle?

is that the point you wish to make?

[M.Dancer]

Okay from the top...

The cost of the registry is over $1 billion

The the registry is used 530 times a day is searches specific to a firearm and include "hits" everytime a firearms is sold...3 hits to be precise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry

The number of crimes prevented because of the registry stands at zero.

Number of crimes solved by the registry stands at...?

To own or use a legal firearm in Canada you must have a valid FAC.

The only difference between the data collected with the FAC and the registry is the number and type of firearm.

Can anyone suggest why the FAC database was not made available to the police given that essentially it would tell the police the same info (the person of interest is the legal owner of a firearm).

Can anyone suggest a valid reason other than for the political reason of appearing tough in the wake of the montreal massacre why the governement decided that spending $1 billion to invent the wheel was a really neat idea?

Can anyone suggest a valid reason why the police could not have access to the FAC database

[regroup]

It is not a requirement of Law that you register any vehicle. You must license it to use it on the roads but you can buy a new vehicle and have it delivered to your yard without ever registering it. Certainly the mere fact that you have ownership of a unregistered (unlicensed) vehicle does not make you a criminal as it would with a gun.

The primary purpose of vehicle registration is to defray the costs of providing the infrastructure on which to operate a vehicle. The plate identification is to facilitate identification at a distance. Neither of these justifications exist with the long gun registry.

In fact, there appears to be no use to the long gun registry. It is what I refer to as 'photo-op legislation'. Provides no useful purpose but looks good as a photo-op.

[M.Dancer]

so you are saying that not registering your vehicle is the same as not registering your rifle?

is that the point you wish to make?

I'm saying there is no comparison between the two. I'm left surprised that a fellow, even with your limited abilities, given I have already stated that, is still struggling to say something relevant.

[Oleg Bach]

My son is dating this Chilean girl that has a doctriate in high math...He insists that she is smart...all I see is a peasant girl form a ranch in the foothills of the Andes...who really has no class - no real spirit...and has a type of animalist underlying violence within her persona - She may be EDUCATED...but she is not intelligent - I see no signs of her doing what is right and good in the long run..The out come of her actions will lead to failure in all endevours..she has no vison..

With Iggy we assume that he is smart...If he was smart he could oust Harper - Put me the rube in Iggy's place and I would have Harper out on his ass in a year..Iggy really has no vison or depth of spirit...We have given him a lot of time and still no results - and that public relations firm smile - looks stupid and insincere..be cause he does not have the common sense to be honest and give us an honest response--NO one wants an insecure liar..

[PIK]

Wayne easter (LIB PEI) was on the radio and he was one that was against it, so he was questioned on it,I only had a problem with the criminal charge if caught without it reg, but our leader will chgange that ,so I am happy. And then went on about a phone call from someone in fiancial problems, and says I am tired of this ,we need to be helping people not fighting over guns, when he could have ended this by sticking to his original vote, but now this is going to be a on going thin g for quite sometime. The cons have been upfront about this since the beginning, the libs and ndp are the ones lying , and causing more grief.

[Argus]

Okay from the top...

The cost of the registry is over $1 billion

According to the AG it's $2 billion.

[Argus]

So why would he do that when he supports having the registry?

i don't believe for a moment that Ignateif, or for that matter, any but the dumbest of the MPs who will rise to support this farcical registry today, actually believes it serves any useful purpose. He's supporting it because he's playing politics, using it to try to appeal to frightened urban voters worried about crime, and to depict the tories as right wing and rural - the enemy.

Likewise I don't think the Liberals actually have any problem with the new fighter plane purchase. His party was the one which joined the consortium in the first place. It's just politics. if the Tories had decided not to buy it the Liberals would be all over them about the wasted $100million spend on it and demanding to know why the Tories wanted to be a less capable aircraft for our air force.

[Argus]

Why is anyone opposed to one registry and not the other?

The fact that one registry is 70 years old has no bearing on whether it is an effective program or not. Why is registering hanguns effective and long-guns not?

The registries are exactly the same and are adhered to by exactly the same people.

The registries are not the same. If they had simply taken the hand gun registry and used it we wouldn't have thrown two billion dollars down into the toilet, and the registry would actually work. The current one is filled with bugs and the information in it is unreliable.

[Argus]

Perhaps that possibility should be addressed by folks who might actually need/want/use a handgun.

Actually... has anyone actually said that a handgun registry is effective? Really, what is it intended to do?

Well, most crimes which aren't immediately solvable - ie, hubby killing his wife with a shotgun - are committed with hand guns, and the great majority of those are smuggled in from the US. But a substantial number are stolen from owners in Canada. The police like to be able to trace every gun back to its original owner. It helps make the paperwork neat. So the fact a junkie who robs a corner store used a gun which was stolen from some suburbanite leaves a tidy file since they can identify the original owner. How it helps solve anything is a bit beyond me, though. Once you have the gun you generally have the criminal.

[waldo]

So you are saying that the registering your vehichle is the same as registering your rifle?

Is that the point you wish to make?

so you are saying that not registering your vehicle is the same as not registering your rifle?

is that the point you wish to make?

I'm saying there is no comparison between the two. I'm left surprised that a fellow, even with your limited abilities, given I have already stated that, is still struggling to say something relevant.

rather than speak in Dancerease you should simply come forward and make your point up front... obviously you like to extend the dance, but did you really think that asking a vague disjointed question concerning vehicle registration was helping to make your case against a comparison?

btw, thanks for providing the Dancer treatise on the registry, inaccuracies, spin, speculation, obfuscation, and all. Obviously, the majority of Canadians don't agree with your expert opinion... nor do RCMP and Police Associations - go figure.

riddle me this, Dancer: do you hold that the Conservatives don't have like intentions towards dismantling the handgun registry? And if not, why would Conservatives (why would you, perhaps) support the handgun registry but not the long-gun registry?

[Argus]

ALL weapons that Canadians can own legally should register their weapons , just like they would do with anything else they own like their car or truck and several other things but do bitch about.

Their crossbows? Their knives? Their swords? Their hammers and nail-guns? I mean, ultimately, if everyone registered everything which could be used as a weapon the police would find some use for the data on occasion. But is that enough reason to put tens of millions of people to the trouble of doing the paperwork, and paying hundreds of millions to build and keep up the registries? I don't think so.

[Argus]

before you put that vehicle up on blocks for the past decade, when you did last drive it, did you properly register it? Certainly, if you complied with the law, obviously there's a record of your vehicle, advising you are the registered owner. Did you properly register it prior to putting your vehicle up on blocks this past decade?

....thanks in advance

There is a demonstrated use in being able to readily determine who owns vehicles driving on the roads. There is no such demonstrated use for the firearms registry.

Also, if you forget to renew your drivers license, the police don't show up at your door to confiscate your vehicle.

[M.Dancer]

Obviously, the majority of Canadians don't agree with your expert opinion... nor do RCMP and Police Associations - go figure.

A survey in August 2010 revealed that 72 percent of Canadians believe the long-gun registry has done nothing to prevent crime.[14

riddle me this, Dancer: do you hold that the Conservatives don't have like intentions towards dismantling the handgun registry? And if not, why would Conservatives (why would you, perhaps) support the handgun registry but not the long-gun registry?

From that question I can only assume you don't know the difference between a handgun and a longgun, nor its purposes.

If you wish to claim that restricted weapons are on the block, go ahead, make my day.

[M.Dancer]

I wonder how many firearms are sold each year in Canada? According to Wiki, each time a firearm is sold, it registers 3 hits on the CPIC database. Wiki also says that searches on the database unique to amount about 503 searches a day.

And according to Wendy Cukier, there are 7 million firearms in canada in the civilian possession.

[Molly]

http://www3.thestar.com/static/googlemaps/starmaps.html?xml=080919_gunowners.xml

I found this set of maps interesting-- starting with the revelation that ALL of the numbers are under 5%.

I don't think I've ever lived in a community in which gun ownership would be under 5%... and yes, I have lived in cities. What a strange beast this Onterrible is!

[M.Dancer]

http://www3.thestar.com/static/googlemaps/starmaps.html?xml=080919_gunowners.xml

I found this set of maps interesting-- starting with the revelation that ALL of the numbers are under 5%.

I don't think I've ever lived in a community in which gun ownership would be under 5%... and yes, I have lived in cities. What a strange beast this Onterrible is!

I like how they have Newmarket coloured, but leave out Caledon and Orangeville...

[Black Dog]

]The number of crimes prevented because of the registry stands at zero.

How can you count events that do not occur?

[M.Dancer]

How can you count events that do not occur?

The same way you can accurately say the number of forest fires prevented by not allowing hulu hoops in playgrounds stands at zero.

The registry is not designed to prevent crime; it is not a gun control tool.