Smallc Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Yes, its hard for me to imagine how a corporation that is owned by government but run as a profit driven business (that isn't allowed to keep its profit) can be more expensive than a private company that needs to make money and keeps that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Yes, its hard for me to imagine how a corporation that is owned by government but run as a profit driven business (that isn't allowed to keep its profit) can be more expensive than a private company that needs to make money and keeps that money. But,but,but... I've been told that the free market,especially in the area of insurance,allows for choice and lower prices??? How can what you say be even remotely possible? It flies directly in the face of the truth spoken by the Von Hayek/Friedman free market doctrine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 But,but,but... I've been told that the free market,especially in the area of insurance,allows for choice and lower prices??? The thing is, I don't understand why you'd want to use the free market for a mandatory product. You have to get insurance on your car, so why should the free market be involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 The thing is, I don't understand why you'd want to use the free market for a mandatory product. You have to get insurance on your car, so why should the free market be involved? If it's mandatory,by definition,the market is not "free".This allows private entreprise to charge through the roof in a market that is set up to be abused by the profiteering insurance cabal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 (edited) Yes, its hard for me to imagine how a corporation that is owned by government but run as a profit driven business (that isn't allowed to keep its profit) can be more expensive than a private company that needs to make money and keeps that money. How many insurance policies have you written in your life time? Everytime I have written policies for clients that have come BC or Manitoba it has always been much cheaper in Alberta. Edited August 22, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 How many insurance policies have you written in your life time? Everytime I have written policies for clients that have come BC or Manitoba it has always been much cheaper in Alberta. Then I'm sure you can provide proof. That hasn't been the experience I've heard from anyone that has moved. One person I know was paying almost $5k per year for what was $1500 here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Then I'm sure you can provide proof. That hasn't been the experience I've heard from anyone that has moved. One person I know was paying almost $5k per year for what was $1500 here. I bet they are less then age 25 or could not provide proof of coverage history. Unfortunately MPI doesn't provide internet quotes, I can prove it with my own policy. How much would a 2008 lexus run under MPI When I was last quoted in Winnipeg last year it was 1800, for that vehicle here with Wawa Mutal I pay 1032. My sports car would be even higher. Like I said earlier 2 mil liability 500 coll ded 250 comp loss use endorsement, rental insurance coverage, waivers of limited deprecation. You can't touch it there. I wonder what you think of MPI adopting the grid rating system from Alberta? That was done just this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) I bet they are less then age 25 or could not provide proof of coverage history. Unfortunately MPI doesn't provide internet quotes, I can prove it with my own policy. Yes they do. I can go find out right now what it will cost. How much would a 2008 lexus run under MPI When I was last quoted in Winnipeg last year it was 1800, for that vehicle here with Wawa Mutal I pay 1032. My sports car would be even higher. You're about right about the MPI price with 2 mil liability, 200 ded, and auto loss of use as well as new vehicle coverage. I'd still like to see proof for the the Wawa price....and I wonder if that includes registration? I wonder what you think of MPI adopting the grid rating system from Alberta? The what? They instituted a new driver license point system, since they are also the licensing authority. Edited August 23, 2010 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Yes they do. I can go find out right now what it will cost. You're about right about the MPI price. I'd still like to see proof for the the Wawa price. The what? They instituted a new driver license point system, since they are also the licensing authority. Sorry I was wrong about my wawanesa rates. Liabilty 259, AB 34, Coll 284, Comp 340 Losof use liability for non owned auto and family protection end 26 to a total of $932/year. Its my Sports car thats higher at $1186, my truck with those coverages is $726. From my policy declaration feb 2010 to feb 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) I cannot understand how that would be possible. Not in a million years. I have never seen numbers like that, ever. Edited August 23, 2010 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 I cannot understand how that would be possible. Not in a million years. I have never seen numbers like that, ever. You are probably under 25 as with your friends. You should see what farm rates look like they are even less yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 You are probably under 25 as with your friends. You should see what farm rates look like they are even less yet. I'm sorry, but any place that I go, and put in the numbers, I don't get as low as you're claiming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 I cannot understand how that would be possible. Not in a million years. I have never seen numbers like that, ever. You live under government rates. Now if you add in the licensing cost I pay $70 per plate per year, and about 70 every 5 years to renew my drivers license. Government auto sucks. Back in 03 the average claim pay out in MB, and BC was around $2500 in Alberta it was over $6000. Lower rate high claim payouts = private insurance more efficient and better bang for your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 I'm sorry, but any place that I go, and put in the numbers, I don't get as low as you're claiming. That is because you are using internet quote tools, try talking to brokers and get a few discounts added. TD sucks, as with Kanetix other online rate tools. In my experience the best rate come from Dominion, AXA, and Wawanesa. It also depends what you are using for a postal code and use on the vehicles and years of experience. Commute distance and so on. You don't have the knowledge or the tools online, you want real rates talk to a broker. Same thing I did to find out about my vehicles, in MB,I had a brokerage that i deal with in MB quote my policy there because I was curious, I didn't use some stupid internet rating tool. I got a direct comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 You live under government rates. Now if you add in the licensing cost I pay $70 per plate per year, and about 70 every 5 years to renew my drivers license. Government auto sucks. Back in 03 the average claim pay out in MB, and BC was around $2500 in Alberta it was over $6000. Lower rate high claim payouts = private insurance more efficient and better bang for your buck. And all of it without proof. Manitoba pays out more claims at a lower cost with lower average premiums than Alberta (there have been studies). The average deductible in Manitoba is lower. We don't have the lowest rates in the country (Alberta is higher) but we have some of the highest claim percentages and the claims are handled for less...and we get more coverage on average than anywhere else. 90 cents of every dollar goes to claims here. In the private system, its 70 cents. That's why I can't believe your numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Oh, and I've dealt with private insurance, and that's how I know you're full of it. Private insurance for a rental car was more than $25 a day...from MPI, it was $4 a day. Manitoba Hydro is also government, and provides lower power rates than you could even dream of. Edited August 23, 2010 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 And all of it without proof. Manitoba pays out more claims at a lower cost with lower average premiums than Alberta (there have been studies). The average deductible in Manitoba is lower. We don't have the lowest rates in the country (Alberta is higher) but we have some of the highest claim percentages and the claims are handled for less...and we get more coverage on average than anywhere else. 90 cents of every dollar goes to claims here. In the private system, its 70 cents. That's why I can't believe your numbers. Fraiser institute study in 2003, but go ahead live in your fallacy of studies. I gave you my rates off my policy declaration, but you have called my a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Oh, and I've dealt with private insurance, and that's how I know you're full of it. Private insurance for a rental car was more than $25 a day...from MPI, it was $4 a day. Manitoba Hydro is also government, and provides lower power rates than you could even dream of. Rental car insurance endorsement is included in my coverage you know shit about insurance. The endorsement is called Liability for non owned auto, with some companies it is a 25 charge with others it is automatically included. It covers damage to rental cars and it a hell of a lot cheaper then 4 dollars a day. Yet again you are getting screwed by MPI. BTW if you buy it through the car rental company its 25 a day, but you would have to be stupid to do that. A great part of my Career was as an insurance broker. Edited August 23, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Fraiser institute study in 2003, but go ahead live in your fallacy of studies. I gave you my rates off my policy declaration, but you have called my a liar. Well, I can't verify your policy, and it goes against what I've seen...anywhere else. Also, I give as much credit to the Fraser Institute as I do my toothbrush. They are the most biased source in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 And all of it without proof. Manitoba pays out more claims at a lower cost with lower average premiums than Alberta (there have been studies). The average deductible in Manitoba is lower. We don't have the lowest rates in the country (Alberta is higher) but we have some of the highest claim percentages and the claims are handled for less...and we get more coverage on average than anywhere else. 90 cents of every dollar goes to claims here. In the private system, its 70 cents. That's why I can't believe your numbers. You don't know jack shit about insurance, if you don't believe the numbers fine but I have posted my personal rates with Wawanesa, you have not found an online quote that comes close to it because you aren't quoting wawa. You don't know my driving record, you don't know what discounts I qualify for. I would find any data that MPI puts out highly suspect as they need to justify their jobs. The most comprehesive study completed for insurance models was ut out by the fraiser institute in 2003, it compaired all north american , and british markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 2003 is a long time ago, and Fraser Institute Studies aren't peer reviewed. The FCPP put out a study in 2007. They don't like public insurance either, but they found that Manitoba's average premium was lower than Alberta's. It wasn't the lowest in the country either, but when you factor in the coverage, it is. The average Albertan pays more for the same insurance than the average Manitoban. I don't really care what you personally pay, and I don't even know if it's a real amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Well, I can't verify your policy, and it goes against what I've seen...anywhere else. Also, I give as much credit to the Fraser Institute as I do my toothbrush. They are the most biased source in Canada. Hmm mpi doing a report about MPI wouldn't be biased give me a break. You are following ideology blindly call some brokers ask them call some alberta brokers ask them call the IBAM and the IBAA, call the professionals. If you want I can even give you my rates over the past years I still have the paperwork. If you want to live in your fallacy go right ahead, but I gave you my rates the ones I pay today. Its funny that you went for online quotes with out even knowing the model of my vehicle. That makes a different too. Just did a kanetix quote Millenium $2240 / year Features · Ways to pay: Credit card, ABW, cheque · A- pd A.M. Best · Discounts: Experienced driver, Multi-vehicle With My Lexus and Mazda Its close to what I am paying with wawa only a couple of hundered off. Edited August 23, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) 2003 is a long time ago, and Fraser Institute Studies aren't peer reviewed. The FCPP put out a study in 2007. They don't like public insurance either, but they found that Manitoba's average premium was lower than Alberta's. It wasn't the lowest in the country either, but when you factor in the coverage, it is. The average Albertan pays more for the same insurance than the average Manitoban. I don't really care what you personally pay, and I don't even know if it's a real amount. Ya because you are like any red koolaid drinking ignoramus , you'll take "studies" over real life numbers and experience. I'll take real life experience and numbers over government studies any day. Edited August 23, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Ya because you are like any red koolaid drinking ignoramus , you'll take "studies" over real life numbers and experience. I'll take real life experience and numbers over government studies any day. I tore that report apart on this forum a couple years ago. They didn't use real policies, they took the median policy price for auto insurance in private markets rather then the lowest. It was a flawed study. Edited August 23, 2010 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Ya because you are like any red koolaid drinking ignoramus , you'll take "studies" over real life numbers and experience. I'll take real life experience and numbers over government studies any day. The Frontier Centre for Public Policy isn't government...they rather hate government and were using the study to say that MPI was bad (they showed that it was in some ways, but it backfired on them in other ways). I'm using real numbers. You're using anecdotal evidence that can't be verified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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