Where should the new NYC mosque be built?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Weaponized smallpox exists still in the former Soviet Union in vast quantities. Turned out while the Americans were getting rid of their biological weapons, the Soviets decided to push ahead with mass inoculations for the deadliest forms of variola and mass produce a strain called India 1967. Need I say what a yummy prize some of that nasty stuff would be for terrorists.

It's located here...poorly guarded. Once an island...no longer an island.

If this is such common knowledge I'm pretty sure someone would have done something with it, that is if it actually exists.

Re: the chances of a terror attack. Once you've been involved in one, those slim chances mean nothing.

Worst argument ever. "Once it's already happened to you it matters to you" Well duh. And once you've been bitten by a shark or your parachute doesn't deploy it doesn't matter that those events barely ever happen. Should those things stop me from swimming or going skydiving? Hell no, and even if they did happen it probably wouldn't stop me from skydiving or swimming again (assuming I survive). I give more thought to when my copy of Starcraft 2 will arrive than I do to terrorists.

Now that's funny....

What are they going to suicide bomb? Trees? Or maybe they'll go after the new community centre.

[DogOnPorch]

If this is such common knowledge I'm pretty sure someone would have done something with it, that is if it actually exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#Smallpox

Worst argument ever. "Once it's already happened to you it matters to you" Well duh. And once you've been bitten by a shark or your parachute doesn't deploy it doesn't matter that those events barely ever happen. Should those things stop me from swimming or going skydiving? Hell no, and even if they did happen it probably wouldn't stop me from skydiving or swimming again (assuming I survive). I give more thought to when my copy of Starcraft 2 will arrive than I do to terrorists.

As you state, you haven't ever run into terrorism first hand, so you play it by the numbers. That would no longer mean anything to you if you became one of the statistics going the other way.

[DogOnPorch]

Plus the whole 'somebody doing something about it' problem has been attempted by the Americans who offered to help with its destruction. They're still at it from what I understand...there was THAT much made.

[Guest TrueMetis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#Smallpox

Now prove it still exists or is that easy to get to because if it was someone would have used it by know.

As you state, you haven't ever run into terrorism first hand, so you play it by the numbers. That would no longer mean anything to you if you became one of the statistics going the other way.

Even then it probably wouldn't change my life all that much.

[DogOnPorch]

What are they going to suicide bomb? Trees? Or maybe they'll go after the new community centre.

As mentioned, the only thing someone like yourself living in the boonies would have to worry about (other that the failure of our infrastructure...no food/fuel) would be smallpox. When, if ever, were you inoculated? They stopped in 1976 if I recall correctly. Old inoculations are rumored to be ineffective after 20 years...

[DogOnPorch]

Now prove it still exists or is that easy to get to because if it was someone would have used it by know.

Now prove bacteria exists without a microscope.

Even then it probably wouldn't change my life all that much.

Well you'd be dead like most of the population around you.

[DogOnPorch]

Plus...and to add to the fun, the Soviets chose the strain 'India 1967' because its a form of hemorrhagic smallpox which has a stiking resemblance to ebola.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Hemorrhagic

[Guest TrueMetis]

As mentioned, the only thing someone like yourself living in the boonies would have to worry about (other that the failure of our infrastructure...no food/fuel) would be smallpox. When, if ever, were you inoculated? They stopped in 1976 if I recall correctly. Old inoculations are rumored to be ineffective after 20 years...

*looks outside at all the potential food* I'm good. Couple of farms around here, plenty of wild game, medicinal herbs, etc. And enough of the non-existent smallpox threats.

Now prove bacteria exists without a microscope.

All I need is a can of coke. It's really not that hard.

Step 1 pour can of coke into dish or bowl.

Step 2 wait a few days for bacteria colonies to form.

Actually that's quite similar to the experiment used to prove bacteria exists originally.

Well you'd be dead like most of the population around you.

*looks at list of terrorist attack for the last couple of years* hurt maybe, dead not likely.

Edited August 9, 2010 by TrueMetis

[DogOnPorch]

You're right....the fingers in the ears LA LA LA approach is the best way to handle the bigger threats to our safety...lol.

[Guest TrueMetis]

You're right....the fingers in the ears LA LA LA approach is the best way to handle the bigger threats to our safety...lol.

Tripping in the bathroom?

[DogOnPorch]

Tripping in the bathroom?

That works best with your eyes closed.

[DogOnPorch]

He wouldn't hesitate.

[herbertshippos]

He wouldn't hesitate.

wherever they wish!

[Wilber]

Uh what about de-segregation? That caused a lot of controversy and bad feeling, should they have not done it? When the f*ck did controversy become a bad thing?

The civil rights movement was about removing laws that discriminated. This isn't.

[Wilber]

Uh what about de-segregation? That caused a lot of controversy and bad feeling, should they have not done it? When the f*ck did controversy become a bad thing?

One more thing. Controversy is not a bad thing but since when did everything controversial become a good idea? It can just as easily be a bad idea. I don't really care what they do, I have no personal baggage when it comes to this issue. I just think that those who are promoting this are at best exercising poor judgment and at worst being deliberately provocative. I believe it will be detrimental to Muslim relations with the rest of society. Hope I'm wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

Mosques are monuments! Let them instead of tearing down that old structure - clean up the old structure and use it as a place of worship AS IS....BUT THEY WILL NOT DO THIS BECAUSE THE BUILDING OF A MOSQUE IS A STATEMENT - In every nation that is not of Islam where a new grand mosque is built they are saying that "we are victorious over the infidels" IF you actually believe that Islamics do NOT hold all of western society in loathing and contempt then you are naive..

Take the fact that when terrorist are practicing - they use a Christian symbol for target practice.

NOW.....If these people are truely sincere they will build a simple building instead of some huge opposing symbol......Let them assist in the funding of a huge Christian cathedral or a synagog....THEY WOULD RATHER BURN IN HELL THAN TOLERATE US////////////////so why do we tolerate them?

[dre]

One more thing. Controversy is not a bad thing but since when did everything controversial become a good idea? It can just as easily be a bad idea. I don't really care what they do, I have no personal baggage when it comes to this issue. I just think that those who are promoting this are at best exercising poor judgment and at worst being deliberately provocative. I believe it will be detrimental to Muslim relations with the rest of society. Hope I'm wrong.

Yeah I think youre probably wrong. I think people will piss and moan for a bit... but I really dont see this turning into a big problem.

[Wilber]

Yeah I think youre probably wrong. I think people will piss and moan for a bit... but I really dont see this turning into a big problem.

You may be right but why go out of your way to be provocative? It just isn't necessary.

[dre]

You may be right but why go out of your way to be provocative? It just isn't necessary.

I dont think thats what they went out of their way to do. My guess is that they had good intentions when they planned this project, and the fact is that the project is garnering a lot of support as well as opposition.

Cancelling a hundred million dollar building project that the city has already approved, and that youve already spent millions on because some people out there dont like you is probably not as easy a decision as you think.

[Wilber]

I dont think thats what they went out of their way to do. My guess is that they had good intentions when they planned this project, and the fact is that the project is garnering a lot of support as well as opposition.

Cancelling a hundred million dollar building project that the city has already approved, and that youve already spent millions on because some people out there dont like you is probably not as easy a decision as you think.

Seems to me that it was their own actions and poor judgment that put them in this position. Why blame the people who are legitimately upset about it? They didn't do anything.

[dre]

Seems to me that it was their own actions and poor judgment that put them in this position. Why blame the people who are legitimately upset about it? They didn't do anything.

I didnt blame them for anything.

[Wilber]

I didnt blame them for anything.

Maybe not but neither do you have any consideration for their views or their reasons for having them.

[dre]

Maybe not but neither do you have any consideration for their views or their reasons for having them.

Thats true in part. I have yet to hear what I consider a good reason for opposing this project.

Heres my take though...

Lots of Americans dont like Muslims...

The survey by the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies found 53 percent of Americans view Islam unfavorably compared with 42 percent who view the religion favorably. Majorities view other major religions favorably: 91 percent for Christianity, 71 percent for Judaism and 58 percent for Buddhism.

Now my guess is that if you polled the people in the surrounding area of ANY MOSQUE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT IN AMERICA there would be a healthy ammount of opposition. Probably somewhere along the lines of the 53% in that poll. Its interesting to note that the poll cited by someone in this thread ALSO showed about 50% percent of respondants being opposed to this Mosque. The only difference here is that the opposition is much more public because of the emotionalism associated with 911.

A lot of people see Islam as an enemy of the US and you could easily make the case that after 911 EVERY mosque built in America is a provocation, and Im quite sure thats true.

The thing is... such decisions in America are made based on the RULE OF LAW and not MOB RULE.

[Wilber]

Thats true in part. I have yet to hear what I consider a good reason for opposing this project.

Heres my take though...

Lots of Americans dont like Muslims...

Maybe so but the point here is that they don't like the idea of a Mosque being built on what was part of the biggest mass murder in US history, perpetrated by people claiming to have done it in the name of Islam. I think it takes a certain degree of insensitivity to go ahead with this project and they have no one to blame but themselves for any backlash. It seems to me that you wouldn't consider any reason. Well, if it blows up in their face, they will have no one to blame for it but themselves and people like you. If so, I wonder if you would be capable of admitting it was a mistake.

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe so but the point here is that they don't like the idea of a Mosque being built on what was part of the biggest mass murder in US history, perpetrated by people claiming to have done it in the name of Islam. I think it takes a certain degree of insensitivity to go ahead with this project....

Which is exactly what I've said, repeating it over and over, only to be called a bigot, accused of blaming all Muslims, and accused of not wanting any Mosques anywhere in NYC. Even as I repeated my stance over and over, this is what I'm told my stance is.

So how many times have you been called a bigot, accused of blaming all Muslims, and not wanting the Mosque built at all? --- or is it only Americans who can't express concern over this project?

I'm really curious.