The Silver Covenant Chain Treaty 1710 is alive.

[charter.rights]

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2657004postbox

This has huge implications for the government. The Crown has honoured a treaty made in 1710 that defines that Six Nations are "friends" of the Crown, and not subjects. This is a historic event.

[M.Dancer]

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2657004postbox

This has huge implications for the government. The Crown has honoured a treaty made in 1710 that defines that Six Nations are "friends" of the Crown, and not subjects. This is a historic event.

That is good 'cause you can always tell friends to fuck off...

shame the article you linked says nothing about any treaty....

Edited July 7, 2010 by M.Dancer

[charter.rights]

That is good 'cause you can always tell friends to fuck off...

Not when you are standing on their property.....

[M.Dancer]

Speaking of treaties....you are breaking the

sacred cross posting treaty you signed..

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/silver-covenant-chain-treaty-1710-alive

[charter.rights]

Speaking of treaties....you are breaking the

sacred cross posting treaty you signed..

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/silver-covenant-chain-treaty-1710-alive

Nope> I posted this one first and on second thought, realized it might also generate some other types of discussion there. So fi I cross posted it was on the Rabble site.

[M.Dancer]

Not when you are standing on their property.....

They have their territory...you see it from the highways....big signs announce cheap smokes...

[M.Dancer]

Nope> I posted this one first and on second thought, realized it might also generate some other types of discussion there. So fi I cross posted it was on the Rabble site.

hmmm....pale bottom speakum forked tongue

[charter.rights]

They have their territory...you see it from the highways....big signs announce cheap smokes...

"Their Territory" extends from Lake Ontario and Erie to the Ottawa River and west to Lake Huron.

[Remiel]

I sense another thread going nowhere in a hurry.

[M.Dancer]

"Their Territory" extends from Lake Ontario and Erie to the Ottawa River and west to Lake Huron.

If thats the case they should try to see if a bank will give financing based on their so called holdings ...and open cheap smoke shops in toronto

[Jack Weber]

Speaking of treaties....you are breaking the

sacred cross posting treaty you signed..

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/silver-covenant-chain-treaty-1710-alive

charter.rights...

You're looking for support at Bedwettercentral.ca?

Yeesh...

[Bonam]

"Their Territory" extends from Lake Ontario and Erie to the Ottawa River and west to Lake Huron.

Why not just claim that it extends from the Atlantic west to the Pacific, and from the Gulf of Mexico north to the Arctic coast? After all, if you are gonna make grandiose and meaningless claims, they may as well be really grandiose.

By the way, the territory of Rome extends from Persia in the east to Iberia in the West. I'm sure we can even dig up some old documents that say so.

[charter.rights]

Why not just claim that it extends from the Atlantic west to the Pacific, and from the Gulf of Mexico north to the Arctic coast? After all, if you are gonna make grandiose and meaningless claims, they may as well be really grandiose.

By the way, the territory of Rome extends from Persia in the east to Iberia in the West. I'm sure we can even dig up some old documents that say so.

That would be silly. "The Extent of the Six Nations Territory" a line drawn along the Ottawa River to north of Nippissing, and all of southern and southwest Ontario was identified on the Mitchell Map 1757, and then again on the Royal Proclamation 1763 map. The Royal proclamation set out that no settlers or colonial interests could occupy Six Nations territory without there first being a surrender. There has never been an application to Six Nations to purchase these lands, so they are still the sovereign territory of Six Nations.

The government has tried to assert that Six Nations is no longer sovereign. The renewal of the Silver Covenant Chain, which specifically identifies the independence and separate nature of the British and Six Nations is historically significant since "The Crown" has made the gesture that Six Nations are "friends" of the Crown, and not subjects. That means, along with the protections under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that the Royal Proclamation 1763 is still in effect, and that the land rights Six Nations holds over their territory is still intact.

[Army Guy]

That would be silly. "The Extent of the Six Nations Territory" a line drawn along the Ottawa River to north of Nippissing, and all of southern and southwest Ontario was identified on the Mitchell Map 1757, and then again on the Royal Proclamation 1763 map. The Royal proclamation set out that no settlers or colonial interests could occupy Six Nations territory without there first being a surrender. There has never been an application to Six Nations to purchase these lands, so they are still the sovereign territory of Six Nations.

I'll have to admit i never paid much attention to this entire issue, But even if this is true what is it that Six Nations intends to do with this info...What is the end goal is really my question , i mean even if true it is highly unlikely that everyone currently living on that land is going to move....are they looking for a cash settlement....Rent ? what....

Another question i have is if they are not subjects of the British crown, now the Canadian government Then do they also forfiet all the benfits that the govenment pays out now....

[charter.rights]

I'll have to admit i never paid much attention to this entire issue, But even if this is true what is it that Six Nations intends to do with this info...What is the end goal is really my question , i mean even if true it is highly unlikely that everyone currently living on that land is going to move....are they looking for a cash settlement....Rent ? what....

Another question i have is if they are not subjects of the British crown, now the Canadian government Then do they also forfiet all the benfits that the govenment pays out now....

First of all the Haudenosaunee (Six Nations) have a right of occupancy law within their Great Law of Peace (Constitution) that give the right to use land that is occupied by homesteaders for the purposes of making a reasonable living (i.e. farming, limited resource harvesting etc.). However, it does not give the rights to corporations, or to government to profit from their occupation of land, nor can the occupation rights usurp the territorial rights of Six Nations. Essentially, homesteaders can stay but corporations and industry require permission from Six Nations to operate within their territory (southern Ontario).

In the past the perpetual care the Crown has offered Six Nations was accepted compensation for some of the industrial commercial uses within their territory. But lately there have been squabbles over the government claiming ownership over the land and refusing to force companies that do not consult with Six Nations, off the land.

Not including current claims to parts of southern Ontario lands, the government of Canada holds a trust for leases and small surrenders that is estimated to top $1 trillion. The interest on those monies that are calculated at interest rates set out by the Bank of Canada and INAC, amount to about $3 billion a year. Six Nations and Tyendinaga receive only about $250 million a year in transfers to maintain services, roads and infrastructure. That is a huge inequity.

This new development of polishing the chain puts the government in an awkward situation concerning the lands at Caledonia, Brantford and Deseronto, in that Six Nations has maintained that no surrenders took place in accordance with the Royal Proclamation 1763, and that the land be returned. The government has only offered an insignificant sum of money. The Silver Covenant Chain Treaty suggests that disputes such as this are to be settled in the spirit of the Silver Covenant Chain.....which could mean that the government obstruction to the return of land should be dropped and they should find a way to either swap land, or give jurisdiction back entirely to Six Nations control in order to protect the honour of the Crown.

[Michael Hardner]

Nope> I posted this one first and on second thought, realized it might also generate some other types of discussion there. So fi I cross posted it was on the Rabble site.

Crossposting is crossposting.

I have been scolded for doing the same - order doesn't matter.

[Moonbox]

Not including current claims to parts of southern Ontario lands, the government of Canada holds a trust for leases and small surrenders that is estimated to top $1 trillion. The interest on those monies that are calculated at interest rates set out by the Bank of Canada and INAC, amount to about $3 billion a year. Six Nations and Tyendinaga receive only about $250 million a year in transfers to maintain services, roads and infrastructure. That is a huge inequity.

I don't think there's much to say about this other than HAHAHAHAHAHA.

As has been mentioned before, there isn't a court in the world that would recognize a $1 trillion dollar claim and that's lunatic territory at best.

You can do as much 'claiming' and bedwetting as you want, but those claims will never be realized, nobody will take them seriously and little to nothing is ever going to happen.

As for the Crown, its authority is not recognized by anyone in the Commonwealth and its power is purely symbolic. Sooo...your chain thing means absolutely nothing.

You'll cling to anything you can to 'prove' your balogna assertions, but the sad truth for you is that Southern Ontario has about 10 million 'Canadians' living there, most of whom are at LEAST second or third generation Canadians, and any court here that tried to give away the land they live on would be chased out of the country.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Moonbox

[Smallc]

As for the Crown, its authority is not recognized by anyone in the Commonwealth and its power is purely symbolic.

What? I'm not sure you understand what the Crown is. We're not just talking about an 84 year old lady here, we're talking about the source of all power of Canada and it's government. The Crown is Canada, and any constitutional scholar with even a bit less than half a brain knows that.

As for the rest of your post, I agree.

[charter.rights]

I don't think there's much to say about this other than HAHAHAHAHAHA.

As has been mentioned before, there isn't a court in the world that would recognize a $1 trillion dollar claim and that's lunatic territory at best.

You can do as much 'claiming' and bedwetting as you want, but those claims will never be realized, nobody will take them seriously and little to nothing is ever going to happen.

As for the Crown, its authority is not recognized by anyone in the Commonwealth and its power is purely symbolic. Sooo...your chain thing means absolutely nothing.

You'll cling to anything you can to 'prove' your balogna assertions, but the sad truth for you is that Southern Ontario has about 10 million 'Canadians' living there, most of whom are at LEAST second or third generation Canadians, and any court here that tried to give away the land they live on would be chased out of the country.

Small c makes a valid point on the Crown. However, the government of Canada already recognizes that the Six Nations trust is somewhere between $200 billion and $500 billion. They just use different calculation methods. However, government accountants have already suggested that the government's figures are low. Six Nations accountants came to the nearly $1 trillion account based on compounded interest that goes back over 200 years.

The claims ARE already realize. It is just the paperwork that needs to catch up.

[Shwa]

...and any court here that tried to give away the land they live on would be chased out of the country.

You mean like Caledonia and Ipperwash and other land claim settlements in the province? How about the $145,000,000 settlement for some Toronto and Burlington lands for the Mississaugas of New Credit?

...but those claims will never be realized, nobody will take them seriously and little to nothing is ever going to happen.

Hmmmm... it appears you are more than a wee bit out of touch on this topic.

[Moonbox]

I've yet to see any reasonable reference of ANY intentions to settle the $1 trillion charter.rights is crying about. The $145 million accounts for about 0.1% of the overall amounts we're talking about. I've already mentioned in other threads that I'm sure other settlements will be made. The totals will amount to the low billions, however, rather than the hundreds of billions or trillions this clown is talking about.

If the claims are already 'realized' as charter.rights is saying, then at this rate maybe everything will be done and settled to the satisfaction of the First Nations in, oh, say 1000 years.

[g_bambino]

Another question i have is if they are not subjects of the British crown, now the Canadian government Then do they also forfiet all the benfits that the govenment pays out now....

But they are subjects of the Canadian Crown. It's all set out in the Royal Proclamation of 1763, which is now a part of our constitution.

[charter.rights]

I've yet to see any reasonable reference of ANY intentions to settle the $1 trillion charter.rights is crying about. The $145 million accounts for about 0.1% of the overall amounts we're talking about. I've already mentioned in other threads that I'm sure other settlements will be made. The totals will amount to the low billions, however, rather than the hundreds of billions or trillions this clown is talking about.

If the claims are already 'realized' as charter.rights is saying, then at this rate maybe everything will be done and settled to the satisfaction of the First Nations in, oh, say 1000 years.

Nah. We're only talking about Six Nations "trust account". If you want to add land values into it then there isn't enough money in the treasury for that.

The fact that the government has been facing is that their policy has been to only give money. However, since there was no mistake and land was never surrendered, the only way to settle large claims is to give land back. And don't forget that the Supreme Court has ruled that that loss of use must also be paid for unsurrendered lands.

You can be upset about it all you want, but the fact remains that this polishing of the Silver Covenant Chain Treaty is a renewal of the principles that were entrenched in the Royal Proclamation 1763. All native lands cannot be used without proper consultation, negotiation and reconciliation of all accounts.

Finally, the claims are already being settled. However, the Conservative government has been focused on the smaller claims because they think it will set precedent for the larger ones. Unfortunately they are as wrong about that as they were with the economy.

[Moonbox]

The fact that the government has been facing is that their policy has been to only give money. However, since there was no mistake and land was never surrendered, the only way to settle large claims is to give land back.

Not going to happen. It's pretty twisted logic to assume that the 10 million people of Ontario are simply going to give their land away simply because people like you cry about it. Why would they?

You can be upset about it all you want, but the fact remains that this polishing of the Silver Covenant Chain Treaty is a renewal of the principles that were entrenched in the Royal Proclamation 1763. All native lands cannot be used without proper consultation, negotiation and reconciliation of all accounts.

They are being used and they will continue to be used without all of the above.

Finally, the claims are already being settled. However, the Conservative government has been focused on the smaller claims because they think it will set precedent for the larger ones. Unfortunately they are as wrong about that as they were with the economy.

'Some' claims are being settled. The claims that are 'reasonable' to settle are being settled, and at a snail-like pace. The larger claims you speak of will continue to be laughed at up and down and across Canada and the courts will force no trillion dollar settlements on anyone. The courts are ruled by Canadians. For the settlements to be done as you suggest, several things must happen:

1) The Supreme Court (composed of Canadians) will have to agree to bankrupt Canada (and themselves) to appease a puny minority.

2) Canadians (millions and millions of them) would have to accept losing everything they own and have worked on over the last 230 years.

3) The enforcement of the above would have to be done by Canadians, against themselves.

Perhaps in your hash-induced dreamworld this all makes sense, but I'll continue to snicker in contempt over the next 50 years as nothing you say is going to happen will actually happen.

[charter.rights]

Not going to happen. It's pretty twisted logic to assume that the 10 million people of Ontario are simply going to give their land away simply because people like you cry about it. Why would they?

They are being used and they will continue to be used without all of the above.

'Some' claims are being settled. The claims that are 'reasonable' to settle are being settled, and at a snail-like pace. The larger claims you speak of will continue to be laughed at up and down and across Canada and the courts will force no trillion dollar settlements on anyone. The courts are ruled by Canadians. For the settlements to be done as you suggest, several things must happen:

1) The Supreme Court (composed of Canadians) will have to agree to bankrupt Canada (and themselves) to appease a puny minority.

2) Canadians (millions and millions of them) would have to accept losing everything they own and have worked on over the last 230 years.

3) The enforcement of the above would have to be done by Canadians, against themselves.

Perhaps in your hash-induced dreamworld this all makes sense, but I'll continue to snicker in contempt over the next 50 years as nothing you say is going to happen will actually happen.

You are truly out of touch with what is going on in Canada, let alone Ontario.

Ontario has already started to return lands...Ipperwash, Birtch Tract @ Six Nations etc and some others they have settled for, such as Toronto (Mississauga of New Credit); Turton-Penn Tract and many more. Crown land is expendable - especially when there is no legitimate surrender in the first place. And you know what? This has been going on for decades, right under the noses of Ontarians. If you had been reading this thread instead of trying to insert your misinformed opinions, you might have caught where according to Haudenosaunee law, settler / homesteaders have occupancy rights. That does not mean that the province or feds can lay claim to Six Nations territory, but Six Nations has been clear that no one will be evicted. However, parks, conservation lands, and provincial forested areas are prime plots for restoring to First Nations control. Just like Ipperwash was this year.

What it boils down to is that you are playing the clown here, since everything I have mentioned is already taking place. You haven't a clue because unless you are somehow attached to the claims negotiations, the government will not inform you. And what else is news to you is that the Supreme Court of Canada continues to strengthen the claims of First Nations rights. We see aboriginal case after case reach the SCoC and their appeals confirmed, not only with respect to rights, but with respect to refined interpretations of the law that brought them there in the first place.

Yes. You are out of touch. So you go be angry in your sulking corner and let the rest of us keep the world informed about what is really going on.