Shrine Suicide Bombed - Where are the Tears?

[jbg]

Sufi Muslim worshipers were attacked in a brutal suicide bombing; over 42 killed for no reason (link to article, excerpts below).

And the West somehow is supposed to negotiate with these sorry excuse for humanity? Let's say it like it is; something is badly wrong with that culture.

ISLAMABAD — The death toll rose to 42 on Friday after suicide bombers struck Pakistan’s most important Sufi shrine, a devastating attack by hard-line militants on the moderate, more flexible blend of Islam that is practiced by most Pakistanis.

The two bombers attacked in the city of Lahore just before midnight, the peak worship time for the shrine, known as Data Ganj Baksh. Thousands of people were at the shrine at the time, according to the Pakistani police. In addition to the fatalities, about 175 people were injured, according to police officials.

The strike on such a revered place of worship seemed to enrage Pakistanis, who are growing weary of violence that has spiked in the past four years. On Friday, about 2,000 demonstrators marched through Lahore, calling on the government to do more to thwart militants, according to news reports from Pakistan.

[naomiglover]

Terrorists blowing things up in Afghanistan is not legitimacy for Israel to violate international human rights laws.

[DogOnPorch]

Terrorists blowing things up in Afghanistan is not legitimacy for Israel to violate international human rights laws.

Can't blame the Jews? No tears needed.

[jbg]

Terrorists blowing things up in Afghanistan is not legitimacy for Israel to violate international human rights laws.

The post said nothing about Afghanistan. My post didn't mention Israel.

[WIP]

Shrine Suicide Bombed - Where are the Tears?

I'm curious how far the concern for Sufis extends among rightwingers! For example, the right wing agitpropagandists declared the building of a mosque near the WTC to be a victory for the terrorists, and some right wing bloggers and radio talk show hosts have called for it to be burned down by god-fearing patriotic americans.....ignoring the fact that the leader - Imam Rauf, is a Sufi cleric. The right still can't take its despotism straight, without washing it down with a little hypocrisy!

[jbg]

Shrine Suicide Bombed - Where are the Tears?

I'm curious how far the concern for Sufis extends among rightwingers! For example, the right wing agitpropagandists declared the building of a mosque near the WTC to be a victory for the terrorists, and some right wing bloggers and radio talk show hosts have called for it to be burned down by god-fearing patriotic americans.....ignoring the fact that the leader - Imam Rauf, is a Sufi cleric. The right still can't take its despotism straight, without washing it down with a little hypocrisy!

I am not a right-winger and don't appreciate being attacked over positions I have not yet decided on much less posted on.

[WIP]

I am not a right-winger and don't appreciate being attacked over positions I have not yet decided on much less posted on.

If you call yourself a radical leftist, you have staked a claim. I can't recall seeing anything that you would qualify you as a leftist, let alone a radical leftist.

On Mid-East issues, it's one thing to always take the side of the Israeli Government, but you also look for anything and everything disparaging towards Arabs...Palestinians, Muslims etc. such as the way you have set up this story: "Where are the Tears? Where's the U.N. Investigation?" So what sort of answer are you looking for? The U.N. Secretary General condemned the attack, no word yet on a U.N. investigation, not that it would make a difference.

It's not like no background information isn't available on this story. We know that Muslim extremists are the likely source of the suicide bombers, and we also know that many Pakistanis blame the U.S. war in Afghanistan and missile attacks in Northern provinces for fanning the flames of internal dissension within their own country:

Angry worshippers surged through the streets outside, throwing rocks at police and attacking TV broadcast vans. Police fired shots in the air to calm the crowd.

Ripples of outrage spread across the country. Hundreds of people rallied in Lahore today demanding the resignation of Punjab government officials.

"This is a barbaric attack and should serve as a wake-up call," wrote Raza Rumi, a prominent Lahore blogger. "Data Saheb's shrine is not just another crowded place – it represents tolerant Sufi Islam, which is directly under attack by the puritans."

Farahnaz Ispahani, spokeswoman for President Asif Ali Zardari, said: "This sickening poison of extremism will be driven out of our nation and we will not be cowed. Those who still pretend we are not a nation at war are complicit in these deaths."

Who Pakistan is at war with, however, remains an open question. Angry protesters at the site of the bombing raised slogans against Israel, the US, the Taliban and the ultra-orthodox strain of Wahhabi Islam. Senior local officials also appeared to be confused.

The Lahore commissioner, Khusro Pervaiz, blamed the attack on a "conspiracy in which locals are being used" – a euphemism often used to point the finger at neighbouring India.

Other residents suggested the Ahmadi community – which has no history of organised violence – was taking revenge for the attacks on its mosques in May.

The most likely perpetrators, however, come from within Punjab itself. A network of hardline madrasas scattered across the province, mostly in the southern belt, is home to thousands of religious extremists, many with links to jihadi outfits once fostered by military intelligence. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/02/suicide-bombers-kill-dozens-pakistan-shrine

"America is killing Muslims in Afghanistan and in our tribal areas, and militants are attacking Pakistan to express anger against the government for supporting America," explained Zahid Umar, 25, a frequent visitor to the Lahore shrine. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100702/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan

[jbg]

If you call yourself a radical leftist, you have staked a claim. I can't recall seeing anything that you would qualify you as a leftist, let alone a radical leftist.

I'm definitely pro-choice on abortion. I'm definitely in favor of maximum racial and cultural integration as opposed to racial segregation multiculturalism. I'm in favor of full funding of educational programs though not necessarily caving in to all NDP teacher's union demands.

On Mid-East issues, it's one thing to always take the side of the Israeli Government, but you also look for anything and everything disparaging towards Arabs...Palestinians, Muslims etc. such as the way you have set up this story: "Where are the Tears? Where's the U.N. Investigation?" So what sort of answer are you looking for? The U.N. Secretary General condemned the attack, no word yet on a U.N. investigation, not that it would make a difference.

I will admit I have a real problem with U.N. investigations over alleged "Israeli massacres" such as Jenna and the recent Ship of Fools incident, and almost no attention the horrific attacks such as the one that is the opening post.

It's not like no background information isn't available on this story. We know that Muslim extremists are the likely source of the suicide bombers, and we also know that many Pakistanis blame the U.S. war in Afghanistan and missile attacks in Northern provinces for fanning the flames of internal dissension within their own country:

Somehow the U.S. is always to blame if Israel's not involved. Edited July 5, 2010 by jbg

[Remiel]

Somehow the U.S. is always to blame if Israel's not involved.

The U.S. is involved in Pakistani affairs. The U.S. may be blamed for reasons you do not find to be very convincing, but it does not take a doctorate in sociology to understand why people think they are connected.

[naomiglover]

I am not a right-winger and don't appreciate being attacked over positions I have not yet decided on much less posted on.

Pakistan. My mistake.

My point still stands.

You have tried over and over again to excuse Israel's violations by bringing up examples of sick actions in other parts. Most of your comparisons do not make sense. What happened in Pakistan is internal. Israel's actions towards the Palestinians happens on Palestinian land.

[jbg]

The U.S. is involved in Pakistani affairs. The U.S. may be blamed for reasons you do not find to be very convincing, but it does not take a doctorate in sociology to understand why people think they are connected.

So you mean some crazed and ignorant jihadi has the red, white and blue in his scopes somehow when he organizes or participates in a senseless attack on another sect's religious shirne? All I can say is "wow". What you are saying, in effect is that the entire "ummah" is so volatile that any Western non-Islamic presence that doesn't recognize Muslim supremacy is inflammatory and provocative.

Pakistan. My mistake.

My point still stands.

You have tried over and over again to excuse Israel's violations by bringing up examples of sick actions in other parts. Most of your comparisons do not make sense. What happened in Pakistan is internal. Israel's actions towards the Palestinians happens on Palestinian land.

Except you consider all of Israel to be Palestine. You are a hypocrit. Edited July 5, 2010 by jbg

[Jack Weber]

Sufi Muslim worshipers were attacked in a brutal suicide bombing; over 42 killed for no reason (link to article, excerpts below).

And the West somehow is supposed to negotiate with these sorry excuse for humanity? Let's say it like it is; something is badly wrong with that culture.

ISLAMABAD — The death toll rose to 42 on Friday after suicide bombers struck Pakistan’s most important Sufi shrine, a devastating attack by hard-line militants on the moderate, more flexible blend of Islam that is practiced by most Pakistanis.

The two bombers attacked in the city of Lahore just before midnight, the peak worship time for the shrine, known as Data Ganj Baksh. Thousands of people were at the shrine at the time, according to the Pakistani police. In addition to the fatalities, about 175 people were injured, according to police officials.

The strike on such a revered place of worship seemed to enrage Pakistanis, who are growing weary of violence that has spiked in the past four years. On Friday, about 2,000 demonstrators marched through Lahore, calling on the government to do more to thwart militants, according to news reports from Pakistan.

I think there is a faction....Probably a large faction...Of Islamofascists,who not only hate the West,but hate other Muslims for not being "Muslim enough".And this type of thinking leads to the violence you're describing here.

Fortunately,it seems that this violence might be having the opposite effect on the people it is aimed at.It seems to me that these people want to frighten Muslims into being either silent or more militant,as it relates to attitudes towards the West.It seems,at least from this report,that those targeted Muslims are getting more than a little sick and tired of being shoved around by these bullies.It is precisely that pushback we should be hoping for.The people who need to stand up to the Islamofascists are not just the West,but other Muslims who are embarassed and ashamed of the actions of these bloodthirsty thugs.It is they who will affect the change that is necessary in that region,not us...

[naomiglover]

Except you consider all of Israel to be Palestine. You are a hypocrit.

WHAT are you talking about, radical leftist lawyer?

How many times have I said that I support international law and 1967 border?

My point still stands.

You have tried over and over again to excuse Israel's violations by bringing up examples of sick actions in other parts. Most of your comparisons do not make sense. What happened in Pakistan is internal. Israel's actions towards the Palestinians happens on Palestinian land.

[bush_cheney2004]

How many times have I said that I support international law and 1967 border?

What's so special about 1967 borders? Please to note:

It is worth remembering that the Fatah was founded before the 1967 war, and the constitution dates from approximately 1964. The desire to destroy Israel did not begin with the occupation.

[GostHacked]

I think there is a faction....Probably a large faction...Of Islamofascists,who not only hate the West,but hate other Muslims for not being "Muslim enough".And this type of thinking leads to the violence you're describing here.

I believe you are correct here. It's Muslims attacking other Muslims. No one cares because they are killing each other. I've known about the Sunnis and the Shia, but this is the first I hear of the Sufi. There is a huge difference of ideologies even within Islam, but we just see one side, the extremists who have hijacked the religion for their purpose.

Fortunately,it seems that this violence might be having the opposite effect on the people it is aimed at.It seems to me that these people want to frighten Muslims into being either silent or more militant,as it relates to attitudes towards the West.It seems,at least from this report,that those targeted Muslims are getting more than a little sick and tired of being shoved around by these bullies.It is precisely that pushback we should be hoping for.The people who need to stand up to the Islamofascists are not just the West,but other Muslims who are embarassed and ashamed of the actions of these bloodthirsty thugs.It is they who will affect the change that is necessary in that region,not us...

We might see more push back against the extremists within Islam, this would be a very good thing and would change the dynamics of this war on terror.

[naomiglover]

What's so special about 1967 borders? Please to note:

It is worth remembering that the Fatah was founded before the 1967 war, and the constitution dates from approximately 1964. The desire to destroy Israel did not begin with the occupation.

What's so special about 1967 border? You mean you don't know?

It's the internationally recognized border.

[M.Dancer]

What's so special about 1967 border? You mean you don't know?

It's the internationally recognized border.

Someone should remind Hamas of that....and be reminded that Hamas does not recognise Isreal.

[GostHacked]

Someone should remind Hamas of that....and be reminded that Hamas does not recognise Isreal.

Not that I am defending Hamas in any way, but they were legally and democratically elected as the governing party of the occupied territories.

[M.Dancer]

Not that I am defending Hamas in any way, but they were legally and democratically elected as the governing party of the occupied territories.

And that in what way mitigates their open hostility to Jews and recognising Israel and the 1967 borders?

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-spine/75958/palestinian-fascism-richard-cohen-in-the-washington-post

[GostHacked]

And that in what way mitigates their open hostility to Jews and recognising Israel and the 1967 borders?

http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-spine/75958/palestinian-fascism-richard-cohen-in-the-washington-post

Simple, they are Jews. So wait, now I've seen both the Israeli's and Palestinians equated to Nazi fascists. And we know how those arguments pan out.

[naomiglover]

Someone should remind Hamas of that....and be reminded that Hamas does not recognise Isreal.

So that's the excuse?

What about when Arafat and the PLO recognized it? That was over 20 years ago and well before Hamas came to power.

Although they have not changed their charter, Hamas has already, on numerous occasions, has said that they're willing to accept it.

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

Clare Short, who served in the cabinet of former British prime minister Tony Blair, asked Haniyeh to repeat his offer. He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights.

Haaretz

Where does Likud, the current government stand on a Palestinian State?

Likud party voted to restate its opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state

CNN

[DogOnPorch]

Good ol' Gosthacked: Simple, they are Jews. So wait, now I've seen both the Israeli's and Palestinians equated to Nazi fascists. And we know how those arguments pan out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUEx1cKUlg

P.S. How are the new tunes coming?

[Guest American Woman]

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

Clare Short, who served in the cabinet of former British prime minister Tony Blair, asked Haniyeh to repeat his offer. He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights.

Haaretz

Where in that statement does it say they are willing to accept Israel as a state?

Hamas has said it is ready to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders but "will not recognise Israel". link

But keep blaming Israel, by all means.

Edited July 5, 2010 by American Woman

[naomiglover]

Where in that statement does it say they are willing to accept Israel as a state?

Hamas has said it is ready to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders but "will not recognise Israel". link

That's interesting. In the articles I have read, there was never a mention of 'not recognizing Israel'. I figured, accepting the 1967 border means that they accept Israel's border. But it looks like that's what the other Hamas leader has said.

I guess Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Neither are willing to recognize each other as states. I guess, at least Hamas is willing to accept the internationally recognized border.

[Argus]

I guess Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Neither are willing to recognize each other as states. I guess, at least Hamas is willing to accept the internationally recognized border.

Doesn't really matter. The "right of return" is a gamebreaker and until the Palestinians throw that one out there'll never be an agreement.