Shrine Suicide Bombed - Where are the Tears?

[jbg]

It seems,at least from this report,that those targeted Muslims are getting more than a little sick and tired of being shoved around by these bullies.It is precisely that pushback we should be hoping for.The people who need to stand up to the Islamofascists are not just the West,but other Muslims who are embarassed and ashamed of the actions of these bloodthirsty thugs.It is they who will affect the change that is necessary in that region,not us...

So why haven't they asked for Western help? Or more to the point why haven't Western conscious-stricken liberals so ready to throw under the bus advocated getting more involved to wipe out the Islamofascists?

[jbg]

What's so special about 1967 border? You mean you don't know?

It's the internationally recognized border.

Someone should remind Hamas of that....and be reminded that Hamas does not recognise Isreal.

Hamas, the Palestine Liberation Organization and the other Arab countries, besides Jordan and Egypt, do not recognize a June 1, 1967 Israel or any Israel.

Doesn't really matter. The "right of return" is a gamebreaker and until the Palestinians throw that one out there'll never be an agreement.

The "right of return" is a dealbreaker since allowign it would extirpate Israel as a Jewish state. Typical "talking out of both sides of their mouth" by the Arab side of hte conflict.

Not that I am defending Hamas in any way, but they were legally and democratically elected as the governing party of the occupied territories.

Exactly and that makes the people there subject to attack. They elected the government; they own it. Edited July 5, 2010 by jbg

[GostHacked]

Doesn't really matter. The "right of return" is a gamebreaker and until the Palestinians throw that one out there'll never be an agreement.

Well it kind of sucks for the Palestinians to be there in the first place. Essentially they never left. The 'Right of Return" does not mean the right to displace another people because you don't want to let go of your 'ancestral' grounds.

The jews deserve this area no more than anyone living there before they got kicked out centuries ago. Several religions can lay claim to the area, the jews are the only ones playing the card denying anyone elses claim to the land.

--------------------

But back to the topic.

But where are the tears here for the Muslims who get attacked by other Muslims? Do people not care because they are Muslims attacking Muslims? The more they kill each other the better? The Sufi might be those moderates that need their voices heard to combat extremism within Islam. But again, no one gives a shit.

[M.Dancer]

Essentially they never left.

If they never left, why do they want to come back?

[GostHacked]

If they never left, why do they want to come back?

Who wants to come back?

[Guest American Woman]

That's interesting. In the articles I have read, there was never a mention of 'not recognizing Israel'. I figured, accepting the 1967 border means that they accept Israel's border. But it looks like that's what the other Hamas leader has said.

I guess Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Neither are willing to recognize each other as states. I guess, at least Hamas is willing to accept the internationally recognized border.

What good does the "at least" do if they aren't willing to recognize Israel?

Furthermore, I have to wonder why you apparently have complete faith in Hamas' claim that they will accept the 1967 borders and honor a truce while you have a 'wait and see' attitude regarding what Israel says it will do. It's not as if Hamas' past actions speak well regarding their 'word.'

[M.Dancer]

Who wants to come back?

According to you, "they".

[GostHacked]

According to you, "they".

Who's they?

[dre]

What good does the "at least" do if they aren't willing to recognize Israel?

Furthermore, I have to wonder why you apparently have complete faith in Hamas' claim that they will accept the 1967 borders and honor a truce while you have a 'wait and see' attitude regarding what Israel says it will do. It's not as if Hamas' past actions speak well regarding their 'word.'

Yeah, you really cant expect two pathological and serial liars to keep their word. The only way those idiots over there on that piece of shit chunk of dried up dirt will ever get along is if the world threatens to kill them if they dont.

Belligerent retards only understand FORCE.

[Jack Weber]

Yeah, you really cant expect two pathological and serial liars to keep their word. The only way those idiots over there on that piece of shit chunk of dried up dirt will ever get along is if the world threatens to kill them if they dont.

Belligerent retards only understand FORCE.

That would be interesting to watch...If the rest of the world just said...

"OK...That's it!!!....We've had enough of your pissant jibber jabbering....Either straighten this out ,or we vapourize ALL of you!!!!"

[DogOnPorch]

That would be interesting to watch...If the rest of the world just said...

"OK...That's it!!!....We've had enough of your pissant jibber jabbering....Either straighten this out ,or we vapourize ALL of you!!!!"

Then we get to find out first hand if Israel has any H-Bombs.

[dre]

That would be interesting to watch...If the rest of the world just said...

"OK...That's it!!!....We've had enough of your pissant jibber jabbering....Either straighten this out ,or we vapourize ALL of you!!!!"

[bush_cheney2004]

What's so special about 1967 border? You mean you don't know?

It's the internationally recognized border.

LOL! A lot of good all this "international recognition" of the '67 border has done Israel, huh?

[naomiglover]

Hamas, the Palestine Liberation Organization and the other Arab countries, besides Jordan and Egypt, do not recognize a June 1, 1967 Israel or any Israel.

The Arab league has proposed the Arab Peace Initiative since 2002 and re-endorsed it since then. The proposal calls for Israel to leave the occupied territory based on the 1967 border and also calls for a "just settlement" for the Palestinian refugees. This means that they are willing to negotiate on where the refugees can go, which could be in the Palestinian territory and/or compensation for not being able to return to their original land.

The "right of return" is a dealbreaker since allowign it would extirpate Israel as a Jewish state. Typical "talking out of both sides of their mouth" by the Arab side of hte conflict.

See above and perhaps you will be able to make more informed comments in the future.

[DogOnPorch]

LOL! A lot of good all this "international recognition" of the '67 border has done Israel, huh?

Imagine if Texas had to put-up with this crap with Mexico.

[Guest American Woman]

That would be interesting to watch...If the rest of the world just said...

"OK...That's it!!!....We've had enough of your pissant jibber jabbering....Either straighten this out ,or we vapourize ALL of you!!!!"

Perhaps if the "rest of the world" had stayed out of it, the conflict would have been resolved long ago. Likely not the way the Arab world, who now apparently is ready to accept what it wouldn't accept pre-1967 would like, but resolved all the same.

[GostHacked]

Perhaps if the "rest of the world" had stayed out of it, the conflict would have been resolved long ago. Likely not the way the Arab world, who now apparently is ready to accept what it wouldn't accept pre-1967 would like, but resolved all the same.

If the rest of the world had stayed out of it, Israel would not even exist as a country.

But I'd rather try to stay on topic of this thread.

But to me most here do not have a problem of muslims killing muslims. Even if the extremist muslims are attacking moderate muslims. This only exacerbates the whole problem.

[Guest American Woman]

If the rest of the world had stayed out of it, Israel would not even exist as a country.

In order for there to be an Israel-Palestine conflict, Israel has to first exist; so obviously I'm referring to the conflict that has arisen since the creation of Israel.

But I'd rather try to stay on topic of this thread.

Then you shouldn't have responded to my post.

But to me most here do not have a problem of muslims killing muslims. Even if the extremist muslims are attacking moderate muslims. This only exacerbates the whole problem.

If Israel were to be removed from the conflict, Palestine would still be in conflict, within itself. But I'm sure the world would no longer be paying the attention that it is now. Palestinians being killed by other Palestinians just doesn't draw the same concern. Just as Palestinians destroying Palestinian homes hasn't received a fraction of the outrage/concern that Israel destroying Palestinian homes has. Also, not being able to blame Israel for Palestinians living conditions doesn't have the same 'appeal.'

Edited July 7, 2010 by American Woman

[jbg]

But to me most here do not have a problem of muslims killing muslims. Even if the extremist muslims are attacking moderate muslims. This only exacerbates the whole problem.

I have a problem with it for three reasons.

1. The obvious humanitarian reason;
   
2. The fact that the Muslims that always seem to come out on the short end of the violence are the Muslims more willing to "live and let live" with the West and other Muslims (i.e. bullies seem to win); and
   
3. The demonstration of the impossibility of productive discussions with the "militants".
   

[Guest American Woman]

I have a problem with it for three reasons.

1. The obvious humanitarian reason;

The reason which makes it the most difficult to understand why institutions such as the UN seem to have so little to say/do in too many instances.

The fact that the Muslims that always seem to come out on the short end of the violence are the Muslims more willing to "live and let live" with the West and other Muslims (i.e. bullies seem to win);

Agreed. Yet in that regard, too many Muslims who are more willing to "live and let live" don't seem to be doing a lot/saying a lot about such violence, either. That is to say, I don't see them demanding that something be done in the UN about all the moderate Muslims who are the targets of extremists in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

and
The demonstration of the impossibility of productive discussions with the "militants".

Again, agreed, and I'll add to that observation that it's these militants who are objecting to US presence in the ME, the presence which many people cite as the 'reason' for 9-11 et al, as if their mindset is what we should be catering to/setting foreign policy by.

[dre]

Perhaps if the "rest of the world" had stayed out of it, the conflict would have been resolved long ago. Likely not the way the Arab world, who now apparently is ready to accept what it wouldn't accept pre-1967 would like, but resolved all the same.

If the "rest of the world stayed out of it", Im not sure how many Jews would have survived WW2.

[Guest American Woman]

If the "rest of the world stayed out of it", Im not sure how many Jews would have survived WW2.

"The rest of the world" got involved only when it started involving "the rest of the world." Until then, they pretty much stayed out of it in the sense that I'm referring to. In other words, had it remained only a power struggle between Hitler and the Jews, it's difficult to say what would have happened re: the rest of the world's involvement. For example, I didn't see the rest of the world getting involved in the genocide that took place in Rwanda. Perhaps this is a major reason why Israel does what Israel feels it has to do in order to ensure its survival.

Edited July 7, 2010 by American Woman

[jbg]

If the "rest of the world stayed out of it", Im not sure how many Jews would have survived WW2.

Actually both the U.S.'s and Canada's record in this area was utterly shameful.

[GostHacked]

"The rest of the world" got involved only when it started involving "the rest of the world." Until then, they pretty much stayed out of it in the sense that I'm referring to. In other words, had it remained only a power struggle between Hitler and the Jews, it's difficult to say what would have happened re: the rest of the world's involvement. For example, I didn't see the rest of the world getting involved in the genocide that took place in Rwanda. Perhaps this is a major reason why Israel does what Israel feels it has to do in order to ensure its survival.

That is a very good point AW. Until it affects others, no one really wants to step in and do what is needed or what is right.

[dre]

"The rest of the world" got involved only when it started involving "the rest of the world." Until then, they pretty much stayed out of it in the sense that I'm referring to. In other words, had it remained only a power struggle between Hitler and the Jews, it's difficult to say what would have happened re: the rest of the world's involvement. For example, I didn't see the rest of the world getting involved in the genocide that took place in Rwanda. Perhaps this is a major reason why Israel does what Israel feels it has to do in order to ensure its survival.

Its not just about "survival". Both sides are flagrantly belligerent and hostile. But what you say is true... the main reason the rest of the world hasnt told those idiots over there to smarten the fuck up is the lack of a compelling self interest.