Obama mad at General McChrystal

[Wild Bill]

Am I the only one to notice a media bias in favour of Obama? I've been watching CNN, (who we used to call the 'Clinton News Network' during the Lewinski scandal) and it sure seems like they wish to focus 100% on the 'chain of command' and the disrespect shown by a general.

This points are quite valid but they are ignoring half the story! Yes, the general was wrong to do what he did but there is also the question, are any of his criticisms of Obama valid?

Presumably, this general was experienced and competent or Obama would never have given him the job. Now he apparently has no respect for his president's policies and the advisers around him, to the point where he has cheerfully thrown away his career!

WHY?

[Borg]

I'm sure most people have heard about this story already. McChrystal bashing Obama and his admin again in a recent Rolling Stone interview.

If i were Obama, i would verbally tear into McChrystal behind closed doors and then fire him. Don't give him the dignity to "resign", boot his butt out the door and send a message for anyone else who wants to screw with the Commander In Chief . McChrystal is a General and yet has no respect for his superiors or the chain of command?

He should learn a thing or two from Colin Powell, the consummate "good soldier"...unfortunately even to a fault.

McChrystal is just one example of many who have come to lose a great deal of respect, and in his case he very likely made a conscious decision to let it show, for their national leader as they come to recognize his weak and self centred incompetence.

When McChrystal was selected for this position he was closely vetted by obama and his gang - and I can guarantee you McChrystal asked THEM some tough questions. The game must have changed behind closed doors - in other words obama changed the rules in some manner - and McChrystal was not happy. McChrystal will never tell us why - but there was a reason for this and some members of the inner circle of his support staff will know. It will slowly leak to the military foot soldier.

McChrystal did not get to where he was without the smarts to see what he was doing well in advance. Right, wrong or indifferent - agree or disagree - what he did - he did knowing full well what the outcome would be. A personal choice was made and he was prepared to live with it.

Very telling about the relationship between certain military members and the prez. It also shows how tenuous the military is when someone of this rank is prepared toss the prez the finger and to do this in such a public manner.

Tpoaz comment - I think the guy wanted out of Afghanistan because he probably this war is going no where. It seems all the top brass have to do is break the rules and they get to come home, and the guy fighting have to wait to the war is over or the sad way.

This comment from topaz illustrates an extreme lack of knowledge of the military and a complete ignorance on something the military has and most civilian worlds do not have - Loyalty. You can be sure that McChrystal would never do this for the reason above - if anything it was done to express displeasure at incompetence (canuckleheads will say changing rules in the middle of the game) of the obama administration. McChrystal KNEW he would have to fall on his sword yet he did it anyways. His "boys and girls" for the most part know this as well - even though they do not know the inside story. Loyalty is a two way street and if you do black ops and rise to the top you WILL get loyalty both ways - essentially McChrystal told obama to f**k off - I admire him for the willingness to sacrifice himself at the expense of his career.

How many of YOU would do the same in a similar circumstance? Not many I would warrant.

Borg

[BubberMiley]

Yes, the general was wrong to do what he did but there is also the question, are any of his criticisms of Obama valid?

Not only was the general wrong, it was downright bizarre that he did what he did. I can't imagine what he thought he could gain by having a Rolling Stone reporter follow him around.

As for his "criticisms of Obama," maybe it's true that Obama didn't care "who he was." That may be true, but I don't think anyone else does anymore either. There was no substantive criticism of policy or anything else. It was just a guy on an ego trip who drank too much and made a fool of himself.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not only was the general wrong, it was downright bizarre that he did what he did. I can't imagine what he thought he could gain by having a Rolling Stone reporter follow him around.

I think he "gained" exactly what he expected...relief of command and higher visibility on "whiz kid" management of the war in Afghanistan.

As for his "criticisms of Obama," maybe it's true that Obama didn't care "who he was." That may be true, but I don't think anyone else does anymore either. There was no substantive criticism of policy or anything else. It was just a guy on an ego trip who drank too much and made a fool of himself.

There is plenty of criticism if you know how to decode the drink laden comments (and previous instances). Rules of engagement and tough love for Karzai are at the top of the list.

[Oleg Bach]

How can you empower or even trust a lawyer? The general has now been replaced by that Betrayus guy..great! One thing I can say about McChirst...he launched the most clever and bloodless coups of the century..by getting himself dumped he basically dumped the Bite Me adminstration.. They will find that what is left of this failed theatre will now utterly fail - You do not change horses in the middle of a raging stream..What the reality is and I have mentioned this before..Obama is just a very clever well spoken lawyer-- and just part of this cabalist committee. He really has no power - POWER is within the singular man _ when Obama said that this war is more than one man - tell that to Hitler...McChrystal is a man of honour - Lawyers are not --- it is as if the wimp said "How dare that spawn of the blue collar class slight me?" It was an attempt to show that Obama has character and is capable of having some healthy rage based in righteours indignation..big joke - He can't even handle BP let alone the Taliban.

[bloodyminded]

Am I the only one to notice a media bias in favour of Obama? I've been watching CNN, (who we used to call the 'Clinton News Network' during the Lewinski scandal) and it sure seems like they wish to focus 100% on the 'chain of command' and the disrespect shown by a general.

This points are quite valid but they are ignoring half the story! Yes, the general was wrong to do what he did but there is also the question, are any of his criticisms of Obama valid?

Presumably, this general was experienced and competent or Obama would never have given him the job. Now he apparently has no respect for his president's policies and the advisers around him, to the point where he has cheerfully thrown away his career!

WHY?

I saw a Marine Officer interviewed on the news the other day who said that bad-mouthing the President (and bad-mouthing military leadership, for that matter) was so common that it's a non-issue, in and of itself.

But usually the bad-mouthing stays within ranks. And doing it publically is considered bad form.

[bush_cheney2004]

....But usually the bad-mouthing stays within ranks. And doing it publically is considered bad form.

Right...especially for company and field grade billets. There was very little (personal) respect for President Clinton in the ranks because of his anti-war history and policies. OTOH, we (in the armed forces) generally loved Ronald Reagan!

McChrystal very publically violated the UCMJ and did so with forethought and intent. He had to go.

[bloodyminded]

Right...especially for company and field grade billets. There was very little (personal) respect for President Clinton in the ranks because of his anti-war history and policies. OTOH, we (in the armed forces) generally loved Ronald Reagan!

I didn't know that about Clinton, but it doesn't seem too surprising. Actually, I didn't know that about Reagan either, now I think of it.

McChrystal very publically violated the UCMJ and did so with forethought and intent. He had to go.

I defer to your opinion on this. (Honest. ) And from what I understand, the General must have been quite aware of what position his words were putting him in.

Edited June 24, 2010 by bloodyminded

[bush_cheney2004]

....I defer to your opinion on this. (Honest. ) And from what I understand, the General must have been quite aware of what position his words were putting him in.

He must have known what he was doing....professional suicide. He had lots of experience with press embeds from Iraq. IMHO, this was a general who wanted to engage and kill the enemy without so many ROE limitations and Karzai baby sitting. "Blaspheming" Washington is nothing to these guys, it's just that this time it was right in Obama's / Bidens face.

[bloodyminded]

He must have known what he was doing....professional suicide. He had lots of experience with press embeds from Iraq. IMHO, this was a general who wanted to engage and kill the enemy without so many ROE limitations and Karzai baby sitting. "Blaspheming" Washington is nothing to these guys, it's just that this time it was right in Obama's / Bidens face.

In a way, it's almost as if he forced them to think like himself. Do or die, shit or get off the pot.

Edited June 24, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Sir Bandelot]

It sounds to me like he wanted this to happen. He forced Obama to accept his resignation.

Maybe he was tired of fighting a losing strategy and watching more US/ Coalition troops get sent home in a casket. They tried the "kill everything that moves" technique which did not succeed. Now they are attempting to do as much as possible to protect civilians, for the final hand-over to Afghani security forces, but McCrystal is a killer, not a body-guard. And I think that's why he couldn't take it anymore.

[punked]

It sounds to me like he wanted this to happen. He forced Obama to accept his resignation.

Maybe he was tired of fighting a losing strategy and watching more US/ Coalition troops get sent home in a casket. They tried the "kill everything that moves" technique which did not succeed. Now they are attempting to do as much as possible to protect civilians, for the final hand-over to Afghani security forces, but McCrystal is a killer, not a body-guard. And I think that's why he couldn't take it anymore.

You know he created the "losing strategy" he was fighting right?

[BubberMiley]

If he wanted to resign, I think he would have just resigned without making a total fool of himself first. Now he looks like he lacks restraint and discretion and common sense.

I still blame the Bud Light with Lime.

[bush_cheney2004]

If he wanted to resign, I think he would have just resigned without making a total fool of himself first. Now he looks like he lacks restraint and discretion and common sense.

I still blame the Bud Light with Lime.

And that's why you were never in Special Forces.

[punked]

[BubberMiley]

And that's why you were never in Special Forces.

I din't know they let girls from Regina in Special Forces. I guess all anonymous forum posters on the Internet can be if they want to though.

Edited June 27, 2010 by BubberMiley

[bush_cheney2004]

I din't know they let girls from Regina in Special Forces. I guess all anonymous forum posters on the Internet can be if they want to though.

Sure....if they want to be...except you. You are permanently disqualified.

[BubberMiley]

Sure....if they want to be...except you. You are permanently disqualified.

No, no. Anonymous Internet forum posters and their mothers can always be whatever they feel like. Even if they spend all their time at their computer in their basement.

[sharkman]

I din't know they let girls from Regina in Special Forces. I guess all anonymous forum posters on the Internet can be if they want to though.

You're calling BC a girl? Wow, you really are running out of ideas, aren't you? Well, when you lose the debate, I guess all that is left is name calling.

Edited June 28, 2010 by sharkman

[BubberMiley]

Well, when you lose the debate, I guess all that is left is name calling.

I wasn't aware of a debate. But how would I know if an anonymous internet poster is or is not a girl? Anything unverifiable is just that.

[Oleg Bach]

Right...especially for company and field grade billets. There was very little (personal) respect for President Clinton in the ranks because of his anti-war history and policies. OTOH, we (in the armed forces) generally loved Ronald Reagan!

McChrystal very publically violated the UCMJ and did so with forethought and intent. He had to go.

Heaven forbid that the general tells the truth by stating in no uncertain terms that he is more of a man than the commander and chief...and more of a man than that bite me fellow.

[Sir Bandelot]

McCrystals dismissal demonstrates the fickle nature of a weak minded administration. If they were strong and confident, they wouldn't feel threatened by a few disparaging remarks. Only a weak leader feeling vulnerable demands complete yes men to nod their heads at every utterance made by the president. In fact, if they were not weak minded such disparaging remarks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

What we see from this administration is all about theatre. And that is also a sad metaphor for how this war will end. It is already a done deal now, except for the final exit dance, an attempt at face saving and patriotic rhetoric that they will somehow prevail. This despite the inevitable and now totally unnecessary loss of life. In the end I believe that very little of value will have been accomplished, as far as objectives go. The Taliban will be a part of the next Afghanistan government, as they already are even right now, through their supporters. Karzai wants reconciliation, forgiveness, negotiation. He has already taken steps toward that. Sharia will continue. There might be some limited progress in things like allowing girls to go to school, but if that's the better part of what is accomplished, it surely could have been done by other, less expensive means. (And by expense I mean, money AND loss of life).

Edited June 29, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Shady]

McCrystals dismissal demonstrates the fickle nature of a weak minded administration. If they were strong and confident, they wouldn't feel threatened by a few disparaging remarks. Only a weak leader feeling vulnerable demands complete yes men to nod their heads at every utterance made by the president. In fact, if they were not weak minded such disparaging remarks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

What we see from this administration is all about theatre. And that is also a sad metaphor for how this war will end. It is already a done deal now, except for the final exit dance, an attempt at face saving and patriotic rhetoric that they will somehow prevail. This despite the inevitable and now totally unnecessary loss of life. In the end I believe that very little of value will have been accomplished, as far as objectives go. The Taliban will be a part of the next Afghanistan government, as they already are even right now, through their supporters. Karzai wants reconciliation, forgiveness, negotiation. He has already taken steps toward that. Sharia will continue. There might be some limited progress in things like allowing girls to go to school, but if that's the better part of what is accomplished, it surely could have been done by other, less expensive means. (And by expense I mean, money AND loss of life).

I kind of agree. After reading the Rollingstone article, this seems to be much ado about nothing. McChrystal was completely following Obama's military policy. And the majority of disparaging comment were made about lesser administration officials, by lesser members of McChrystal's team. This whole situation could have been remedied by a press conference by McChrystal, in which he publicly acknowledged his wrong-doing, and publicly apologized to Obama and other administration officials.

It's foolish to put the success of an important military operation in doubt over a story written in a music magazine.

[Remiel]

It's foolish to put the success of an important military operation in doubt over a story written in a music magazine.

Militaries everywhere have very long traditions of bringing down a giant-sized hammer on dissing your commanding officer. One person in my family was nearly court-martialled for it back in one of the World Wars.

[jbg]

McCrystals dismissal demonstrates the fickle nature of a weak minded administration. If they were strong and confident, they wouldn't feel threatened by a few disparaging remarks. Only a weak leader feeling vulnerable demands complete yes men to nod their heads at every utterance made by the president. In fact, if they were not weak minded such disparaging remarks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

I kind of agree. After reading the Rollingstone article, this seems to be much ado about nothing. McChrystal was completely following Obama's military policy. And the majority of disparaging comment were made about lesser administration officials, by lesser members of McChrystal's team. This whole situation could have been remedied by a press conference by McChrystal, in which he publicly acknowledged his wrong-doing, and publicly apologized to Obama and other administration officials.

In the U.S. there is a very strong tradition that the military keeps its gripes with the civilians that lead them "inside". Going to the press is basically unforgiveable. So is defying civilian authorities.

Just ask General MacCarthurh.