56% of Canadians are anti-semites!

[naomiglover]

I'm referring to any single poster starting numerous threads on one subject.

The subjects may involve Israel, but they're all different. It just happens that in the past year or so:

- Israel has Attacked Gaza and left many dead and thousands more in a desperate situation

- Goldstone Report and other reports have come out and Israel has tried tarnish them

- Israel has attacked a humanitarian ship and killed people

- The Israeli/Jewish lobby has tried to tarnish a champion of humanitarian law, Libby Davies

These are just to name of a few.

The biggest reasons why I am concerned about the region is that our government, who is supposed to represent us supports Israel's actions. Whereas, they wouldn't be doing that if another nation was so blatantly violating the law and stomping all over people's human rights.

Also, as someone with a Jewish background, I feel that I should stand up and point to this sick ideology (Zionism) and remind people that this is not a Jewish problem.

Those who try to justify Israel's actions (such as yourself) will go to any length to do so. There are many of you here who try to silence criticism of Israel. Just like there are some in our government who try to do the same thing.

If you think I'm posting too much about the country that you unconditionally support, then don't respond to the threads. It's very simple.

Edited June 17, 2010 by naomiglover

[Guest American Woman]

They're all so similar that it's impossible for me to even remember which one I answered which post in.

So I'm not alone in that. I've seriously had to do a search on my own posts in order to find the threads that I've responded in, as I couldn't remember which ones I posted in by looking at the titles; they're that similar. And they all cross reference each other, so one would sufficiently cover just about every thread that's been started.

I recall other new threads being combined with old when it was only the second topic posted about the same subject, so I wonder what the criteria is for threads being combined as opposed to thread after thread being left standing.

Edited June 17, 2010 by American Woman

[Argus]

No really.

Am I crazy for criticizing Israel?

For speaking out against censoring criticism of Israel?

For speaking about the influence of the Israeli lobby in Canada?

Are those crazy topics to discuss?

It's impossible to diagnose you simply based on your postings, knowing nothing about who and what you are. You could simply be one of those airhead lefties outraged by the sight of well-equipped soldiers fighting against ragtag civilians. It's a knee-jerk leftist belief that the underdog needs to be sympathized with, and that uniformed men are almost always guilty of evil, militarist thinking and behavior. Inspired by endless hours of TV coverage you've become a fanatic out of naive (stupid) sympathy for Palestinians.

Knowing little or nothing about the world, having only the most tenuous idea of realpolitik and the the realities of human group interaction, filled with self-righteousness and the certainty you're right, you have shut off your fore-brain and unthinkingly funnel ever bit of news which comes out of the middle east into your "It's Israel's Fault" column.

[Argus]

Those who try to justify Israel's actions (such as yourself) will go to any length to do so.

I'm sure that's occasionally true. But most of us don't have a lot invested with the Israel Palestinian problem. Most of us simply tend to sympathize with the most western oriented, secular and democratic state in the area, especially since we see IT as the underdog against a massive number of enemies who are, collectively, rabidly intolerant, hateful, undemocratic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic and undemocratic - and none of whom are exactly friendly with us either.

So sure, there's a natural inclination to give Israel a benefit of doubt on occasion, to believe Israel over some Arab terrorist or dictator when there's no evidence either way.

In the current question which has roused you to hitherto unseen heights of righteousness, the video of the soldiers sliding down the ropes and being greeted by mobs of club wielding "activists" pretty much decided it for most of us. I think you realize that which is why you keep trying to shift the discussion away from that and towards the blockade in general.

But as I said, even if the blockade is intended as collective punishment, which is against international law - most of us don't care. We lost most sympathy for the Palestinians when they elected Hamas, and we lost much concern about how Israel treated them when they continued to fire rockets across the border into Israel.

I have no doubt things are unpleasant in Palestine (though not nearly as unpleasant as in many other places, like Sudan, for example) but in large measure they have themselves to blame.

Stop firing rockets into Israel. Stop attacking Israel. Try pacifism. It worked for Martin Luther King. It worked for Gandhi. It would have eventually worked for the Palestinians too. But it's hard to have sympathy for a people who shout and dance and party in celebration because one of their sons set off a bomb in a pizza shop full of Israeli teenagers.

[naomiglover]

Ok, 27% for and 56% against out of 100 people asked, or 1000, how many??? How many here had the voted taken?

BBC World Service poll of 28,000 people across 27 countries. People were asked to rate 12 countries – Britain, Canada, China, France, India, Iran, Israel, Japan, North Korea, Russia, the USA, Venezuela – and the European Union, as having a positive or negative influence.

The poll was conducted for the BBC World Service by the international polling firm GlobeScan together with the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland. GlobeScan coordinated the fieldwork between November 2006 and January 2007. Each country’s rating is based on half-samples.

In 10 of the 27 countries, the sample was limited to major urban areas. Given that country ratings were given by half-samples, the margin of error per country ranges from +/-3.1 to 4.9 percent. For more details, please see the Methodology section or visit www.globescan.com or www.worldpublicopinion.org.

Link

Edited June 17, 2010 by naomiglover

[dre]

I'm genuinely curious. If a person were interested in criticizing Islam, if that were the subject they were interested in, and someone called them on the bajillion threads they started about every negative "topic" there is about Muslims/Islam, along with the myriad of posts they made on the subject, would you defend them and respond with "they are posting topics on a subject they are obviously interested in?"

The way I see it, if someone is interested in only on subject, perhaps they should be limited on the number of threads they can start on that topic within a certain time frame. Seems to me that would make for a more balanced, well-rounded board rather as opposed to a board with tons of threads on the same topic started by one poster.

Just wondering if anyone else feels the same way. And again, I'm referring to any single poster starting numerous threads on one subject. I've commented on others regarding this behavior, none who have reached this level, so I'm not singling her out.

But right now it's 'another day, another series of threads by naomiglover criticizing Israel.' I wonder how many new threads we need on one subject. I feel as if it gets to the point where other discussions/topics are purposely being buried as certain forums within the board are dominated by criticizing Israel.

As it stands, this board is beginning to feel more and more like an "anti-Israel" propaganda board than a political board, and I'm starting to lose interest fast. I'm genuinely interested in how others feel; if they feel my comments/observations have any merit.

I'm genuinely curious. If a person were interested in criticizing Islam, if that were the subject they were interested in, and someone called them on the bajillion threads they started about every negative "topic" there is about Muslims/Islam, along with the myriad of posts they made on the subject, would you defend them and respond with "they are posting topics on a subject they are obviously interested in?"

Critisizing a nation state is not the same as critizing a race or religion. A better example would be someone constantly posting threads about the actions of Iran (a muslim state), and I actually see quite a few of those.

You can critisize Iran without necessarily critisizing Islam, just like you can critisize Israel without necessarily critisizing Judaism.

But right now it's 'another day, another series of threads by naomiglover criticizing Israel.' I wonder how many new threads we need on one subject. I feel as if it gets to the point where other discussions/topics are purposely being buried as certain forums within the board are dominated by criticizing Israel.

Yeah thats true. Iv seen this happen on almost every forum I post on. People love to go on and on and on about this subject. The discussions themselves are always of very low quality and Iv never seen a single issue get resolved.

Like you said, Naomi isnt the only one that does it though... Heres the last few threads from the world section.

Myth of the two-state solution. 1239 →

by Caroline Glick Bob 128 Replies

648 Views

Today, 05:20 PM

By: dre

Anecdotal video of Hamas' conduct.

...I imagine this is in Gaza. Bob 0 Replies

0 Views

Today, 03:39 PM

By: Bob

Hamas "We Con The World" Video 1237 →

Hilarious satire August1991 97 Replies

794 Views

Today, 02:55 PM

By: Borg

Israel's Mark Regev - The new Iraqi Information Minister 12 naomiglover 18 Replies

160 Views

Today, 01:33 PM

By: bloodyminded

Muslim Apartheid: Sexism 1236 → August1991 81 Replies

829 Views

Today, 11:43 AM

By: JB Globe

Unmitigated Slaugher in Congo - World Condemns Israel 1237 → jbg 102 Replies

1,814 Views

Today, 10:19 AM

By: bloodyminded

Red Cross: Israel's Gaza blockade breaks international law 1238 → naomiglover 119 Replies

743 Views

Today, 10:01 AM

By: bloodyminded

McChrystal's War Plan Fails bloodyminded 0 Replies

14 Views

Today, 09:53 AM

By: bloodyminded

Uzbeks Flee Souther Kyrgyzstan bloodyminded 2 Replies

24 Views

Today, 07:19 AM

By: GostHacked

Saudis Clear Skies for Israeli Attack On Iran 1237 →

....Jews and Arabs CAN Cooperate! bush_cheney2004 90 Replies

791 Views

Today, 04:20 AM

By: Oleg Bach

Harper refuses to budge on support for Israel 1234

What a Difference From Previous PM's Who Couldn't Make Decisio jbg 58 Replies

3,159 Views

Yesterday, 12:49 PM

By: sharkman

As it stands, this board is beginning to feel more and more like an "anti-Israel" propaganda board than a political board, and I'm starting to lose interest fast. I'm genuinely interested in how others feel; if they feel my comments/observations have any merit.

Iv read most of those threads and my guess is the posts are roughly 50/50 for and against Israel. Israel has a lot of proponents here that post heavily.

Seems to me that would make for a more balanced, well-rounded board rather as opposed to a board with tons of threads on the same topic started by one poster.

Iv posted on forums with those rules, and they seem to work fine. I wouldnt be opposed to having something like that here. On the other hand, I assume the reasons the Middle East threads are so popular is because the members here enjoy them, and it seems like thats the whole point of having a place like this.

Another option would be to create a special Middle East section and make a rule saying that posts about CONFLICT: DIRT-FARM have to go in there. Then you could just not open that section if you were interested.

Edited June 17, 2010 by dre

[naomiglover]

I'm sure that's occasionally true. But most of us don't have a lot invested with the Israel Palestinian problem. Most of us simply tend to sympathize with the most western oriented, secular and democratic state in the area, especially since we see IT as the underdog against a massive number of enemies who are, collectively, rabidly intolerant, hateful, undemocratic, racist, misogynistic, homophobic and undemocratic - and none of whom are exactly friendly with us either.

So sure, there's a natural inclination to give Israel a benefit of doubt on occasion, to believe Israel over some Arab terrorist or dictator when there's no evidence either way.

You are painting a black and white picture.

It really is okay to criticize all sides. For example; It's wrong to do suicide bombings and shoot rockets into civilian population AND it's also wrong to kill civilians and take away people's human rights in many number of ways, especially when it violates international law.

You see how that works?

The problem here is that there is NO ONE here justifying Hamas' violations of international law so there isn't much discussion about it. Whereas the support and justification for Israel's many violations is countless here.

In the current question which has roused you to hitherto unseen heights of righteousness, the video of the soldiers sliding down the ropes and being greeted by mobs of club wielding "activists" pretty much decided it for most of us.

1 minute of footage was enough for you to come to a conclusion?

You don't wonder what happened before? What happened after?

Okay.

But as I said, even if the blockade is intended as collective punishment, which is against international law - most of us don't care.

At least you are acknowledging that Israel is violating international law.

We lost most sympathy for the Palestinians when they elected Hamas, and we lost much concern about how Israel treated them when they continued to fire rockets across the border into Israel.

I have no doubt things are unpleasant in Palestine (though not nearly as unpleasant as in many other places, like Sudan, for example) but in large measure they have themselves to blame.

That is your opinion. I wonder how many around the world feel the same way you do.

Stop firing rockets into Israel. Stop attacking Israel. Try pacifism. It worked for Martin Luther King. It worked for Gandhi. It would have eventually worked for the Palestinians too. But it's hard to have sympathy for a people who shout and dance and party in celebration because one of their sons set off a bomb in a pizza shop full of Israeli teenagers.

That was quite the dramatic ending. Why do you find sympathy for IDF soldiers who wear tshirts that say: shoot '1 pregnant woman, kill 2 terrorists'? Why do you find sympathy for those who rejoiced when Israel bombed a UN school killed dozens of children?

When I see people like you who try to trivialize the death of innocent people, it makes me want to speak out even more.

[Born Free]

The problem here is that there is NO ONE here justifying Hamas' violations of international law so there isn't much discussion about it.

There is never any discussion "here" about Hamas' acts of terrorism ... or at the UN for that matter. Its much easier to overlook the history/background of the region and come down exclusively against Israel. Oh well...the Jews arent leaving because there is nowhere else to go so Hamas better get its shit together and work things out.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Born Free

[bush_cheney2004]

....The biggest reasons why I am concerned about the region is that our government, who is supposed to represent us supports Israel's actions. Whereas, they wouldn't be doing that if another nation was so blatantly violating the law and stomping all over people's human rights....

You're joking right? What do you think the United States has been doing? Just what do you define as "support"?

[Guest American Woman]

Critisizing a nation state is not the same as critizing a race or religion. A better example would be someone constantly posting threads about the actions of Iran (a muslim state), and I actually see quite a few of those.

You've seen quite a few posters constantly posting threads about the actions of Iran? Seriously? Because I can't think of one poster here who really only posts about, and starts threads about, Iran. Or any other nation, for that matter.

You can critisize Iran without necessarily critisizing Islam, just like you can critisize Israel without necessarily critisizing Judaism.

Israel is the only Jewish state, and the conflict resolves around that fact for the most part. There are many Islamic states, so criticizing Iran the nation becomes less of an Islamic issue than criticizing Israel the nation does. But again, I don't see anyone starting multiple threads about Iran. I don't even see multiple threads about Iran, much less started by one person, and within days of each other.

But let's change my question from "about Muslims" to "about Palestine." If one person were starting multiple threads criticizing Palestine, and that's really all they ever started threads/posted about, would your reaction be the same?

Yeah thats true. Iv seen this happen on almost every forum I post on. People love to go on and on and on about this subject. The discussions themselves are always of very low quality and Iv never seen a single issue get resolved.

Like you said, Naomi isnt the only one that does it though... Heres the last few threads from the world section.

Naomiglover is the only one here who starts threads solely on one subject, and starts multiple threads on the subject, and within days.

Look at the entire first page of the Rest of the World section to get a better idea of what I'm referring to. You can plainly see that there are multiple threads on Israel started by naomiglover. See how often her name comes up compared to everyone else's as a topic starter and note the subject. No one else comes near to having started as many threads about the same subject. And again, those who have started a couple of threads about Israel have started many more threads about many other topics. Also, I think some of those threads were started in response to the multiple "anti-Israel" threads that naomiglover started.

Or rather than looking at that page at all, look at the search results for the =1&view_by_title=1&st=0"]topics started by naomiglover. That should make it clear what I'm referring to.

Fact is, too, the more threads there are about on subject, the more likely people are to respond in one of them, making that subject predominant on the board, and I feel that's the whole idea behind so many threads about Israel. It does tend to push other topics out.

Iv read most of those threads and my guess is the posts are roughly 50/50 for and against Israel. Israel has a lot of proponents here that post heavily.

Sure it does. Yet how many of those posters are starting thread after negative thread about Palestine? And only Palestine? That's my point.

Iv posted on forums with those rules, and they seem to work fine. I wouldnt be opposed to having something like that here. On the other hand, I assume the reasons the Middle East threads are so popular is because the members here enjoy them, and it seems like thats the whole point of having a place like this.

I'm not sure if they're popular because people enjoy them, or because they are annoyed with them. For me, it's the latter. To see thread after thread criticizing Israel and not respond doesn't feel right. That's why I was wondering how others feel about it. Also, as I said, when there are so many threads about one subject, that subject, by that mere fact, is bound to become dominant.

Another option would be to create a special Middle East section and make a rule saying that posts about CONFLICT: DIRT-FARM have to go in there. Then you could just not open that section if you were interested.

There wouldn't necessarily have to be a Middle East section, just a limited number of threads about one subject, especially started by the same person. If some of the threads were combined, they would hold their place more.

At any rate, thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

Edited June 18, 2010 by American Woman

[Argus]

You are painting a black and white picture.

Are you really one to talk?

It really is okay to criticize all sides. For example; It's wrong to do suicide bombings and shoot rockets into civilian population AND it's also wrong to kill civilians and take away people's human rights in many number of ways, especially when it violates international law.

Right. And every time Hamas fires rockets into Israel, or some Palestinian kills an Israeli, you'll be on here denouncing it, right? Uh... right? Right?!

Please don't tell you give a damn about what atrocities and murders the Arab side commits. Your posting history says otherwise.

The problem here is that there is NO ONE here justifying Hamas' violations of international law so there isn't much discussion about it. Whereas the support and justification for Israel's many violations is countless here.

You're simply being dishonest. You know you can't openly justify or defend Hamas or the PLO when they commit terrorist acts. So you do it in a backhanded manner. Whenever anyone else criticizes Hamas or the PLO or Hezbollah, you'll jump in to start shouting about how evil Israel is. That IS defending Hamas. You just don't have the honesty to admit it.

The Palestinians send suicide bombers into Israeli pizza shops and dance in the streets every time they manage to kill some Jews. In response, the Israelis build a wall. I'm not going to criticize Israel for that.

The Palestinians fire barrages of rockets and mortars into Israel. In response, Israel crosses into Gaza - or Lebanon - and attacks the bases of the people who fire those mortars and missiles. I'm not going to criticize them for that either. It's self-defense in my eyes.

But you don't believe they have the right to defend themselves. To you, any act of self-defense is an act of aggression, because whatever the Arabs did was, in your mind, justified. You just don't want to say so openly.

1 minute of footage was enough for you to come to a conclusion?

You don't wonder what happened before? What happened after?

I think that human behaviour can be predicted to a certain degree in that if Israel was shooting people prior to those soldiers sliding down the ropes, people would be running away, not charging forward with clubs to wait for them to reach the deck. Also, those Israelis I saw sliding down the rope didn't have automatic weapons strapped to their backs. If the Israelis were openly shooting, they wouldn't have gone down with mere sidearms.

So yes, one minute was enough.

That is your opinion. I wonder how many around the world feel the same way you do.

I don't really care. I have very, very little respect for the level of sophistication, education and intelligence of most of the tribes on this planet. Hell, I don't even have a whole lot for the sophistication, education and intelligence of Canadians.

That was quite the dramatic ending. Why do you find sympathy for IDF soldiers who wear tshirts that say: shoot '1 pregnant woman, kill 2 terrorists'?

Because I understand black humour.

Why do you find sympathy for those who rejoiced when Israel bombed a UN school killed dozens of children?

Got a cite? I have never seen Israelis rejoicing at the killing of innocents. That seems to be an Arab cultural trait. The school you're probably referring to was in Gaza at the height of the fighting.

The al-Fakhura School incident refers to events that took place nearby a United Nations run school of al-Fakhura located in the Jabaliya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip on January 6, 2009 during the Gaza War.[4] In response to alleged militant gunfire coming from beside the school, the IDF fired upon the targets that the UN and several NGOs say killed 42, 41 of them civilians, and that according to the IDF killed 9 Hamas militants and 3 noncombatants.[5][6][7][8][9][10] In April 2009, PCHR listed 12 people as killed "near" the school and another 8 "opposite" the school.[11] Several people listed as civilians in the PCHR report are claimed by Hamas as its fighters according to Israeli think tank ICT.[12] In the last week of January, the UN explicitly clarified that no deaths occurred within the building itself and that the rounds struck the street outside the school. A "clerical error" in UN reports had previously stated otherwise

Al-Fakhura School Incident

Edited June 18, 2010 by Argus

[Bob]

In all seriousness, naomiglover doesn't care about either side of this conflict. She's wrapped herself up in self-righteousness to make up for lacking anything meaningful in her life. The endless posting gives her a sense of purpose, a sense of meaning.

She's never donated a dime to any genuine charity or ever volunteered a minute of her time to make a positive difference in the world (attending an Israel hate-fest demonstration doesn't count as volunteering). You can claim to be passionate all you want about this issue or that, but the emptiness of your inaction speaks volumes to what really matters to you. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions are surely empty. I know what kind of person you are, there are millions of you out there. Armies of people like yourself with no meaning in their lives with nothing of value to contribute to the world except the condemnation of things and people they don't understand.

You've got no stake in the matter, so it's easy for you to just look at deaths and injuries as facts in a news article. I'll say it again, you're too ignorant and hate-filled to have any hope for redemption.

Hating Israel with all your venom won't fill whatever spiritual void is inside you.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Bob

[Guest American Woman]

Good up-to-date article, which seems to contradict the poll from March, 2007, in the opening post:

Canada: Israel's new defender

Muted support for Palestine, funding cuts for Arab groups, now a ban on the phrase 'Israeli apartheid': what's going on in Canada?

At a time when many countries are becoming more critical of Israel's policies, Canada seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

Edited June 18, 2010 by American Woman

[Bob]

Good up-to-date article, which seems to contradict the poll from March, 2007, in the opening post:

Canada: Israel's new defender

Muted support for Palestine, funding cuts for Arab groups, now a ban on the phrase 'Israeli apartheid': what's going on in Canada?

At a time when many countries are becoming more critical of Israel's policies, Canada seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

Surprise surprise, "Jesse Rosenfeld", another ignorant and degenerate moron Jew liberal arts graduate who spits on the defense of freedom against its enemies and supports terrorists. I swear, Jews compete with the Arabs and Muslims for the title of "Israel's worst enemy". This piece of garbage can't even shave for his profile picture - perhaps trying to show solidarity with the homeless?

[Guest American Woman]

Surprise surprise, "Jesse Rosenfeld", another ignorant and degenerate moron Jew liberal arts graduate who spits on the defense of freedom against its enemies and supports terrorists. I swear, Jews compete with the Arabs and Muslims for the title of "Israel's worst enemy". This piece of garbage can't even shave for his profile picture - perhaps trying to show solidarity with the homeless?

I wasn't so much concerned with, or interested in, his opinion about it as I was interested in the fact that Canada's support for Israel is evidently getting stronger. That was my point, my purpose for linking to the article, which I can see I should defnitely have made clearer.

[Bob]

I wasn't so much concerned with, or interested in, his opinion about it as I was interested in the fact that Canada's support for Israel is evidently getting stronger. That was my point, my purpose for linking to the article, which I can see I should defnitely have made clearer.

Your point was clear, I was just commenting on the article in a general sense.

To your point, though, I'm not sure Canada's official positions on Israel and public declarations of semi-support for Israel are done with widespread public support. It is clear to me that a significant portion of Canada, most likely a majority, are anti-Israel (entirely rooted in ignorance and hypocrisy, and connected with Canada's growing Arab and Muslim demographic).

[Guest American Woman]

Your point was clear, I was just commenting on the article in a general sense.

Good. Glad to know it was clear.

To your point, though, I'm not sure Canada's official positions on Israel and public declarations of semi-support for Israel are done with widespread public support. It is clear to me that a significant portion of Canada, most likely a majority, are anti-Israel (entirely rooted in ignorance and hypocrisy, and connected with Canada's growing Arab and Muslim demographic).

You're most likly right; perhaps, though, the government's stance will start having an effect on popular opinion. Perhaps it'll help counteract all the negative press. Time will tell.

[Bob]

Good. Glad to know it was clear.

You're most likly right; perhaps, though, the government's stance will start having an effect on popular opinion. Perhaps it'll help counteract all the negative press. Time will tell.

Hopefully, sometimes change can come from the top down. As you say, time will tell. The realist in me tells me that it's going to take a lot of time to change the Canadian ignorance on this issue - ideologically, this country leans heavily to the left, often in spite of its own best interests.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Bob

[kimmy]

I'm genuinely curious. If a person were interested in criticizing Islam, if that were the subject they were interested in, and someone called them on the bajillion threads they started about every negative "topic" there is about Muslims/Islam, along with the myriad of posts they made on the subject, would you defend them and respond with "they are posting topics on a subject they are obviously interested in?"

That's a really good point. Lictor, for example, posts almost exclusively about one topic, and it's clearly a topic that's very interesting to him, but I doubt that anybody sees that as a redeeming trait.

As it stands, this board is beginning to feel more and more like an "anti-Israel" propaganda board than a political board, and I'm starting to lose interest fast. I'm genuinely interested in how others feel; if they feel my comments/observations have any merit.

There are a few posters on this forum who are so predictably one-note that I no longer bother reading their opinions. There are quite a few threads on the forum that I just don't bother opening, because I know full-well that they're going to suck. My mind might change later on if I see people I consider bright are posting in that thread, or if it generates a lot of posts in a hurry.

We've got a guy who only comes here to start threads about Liberal Party of Canada press releases. We've got people who make native activism threads all over the forum. There's others. I don't read their threads. I'm interested in discussions, not talking points, and happily there are still lots of people here who can participate in an interesting debate.

I wasn't so much concerned with, or interested in, his opinion about it as I was interested in the fact that Canada's support for Israel is evidently getting stronger. That was my point, my purpose for linking to the article, which I can see I should defnitely have made clearer.

The Harper government's support for Israel and the results of this poll aren't in any conflict.

It's likely that a goodly chunk of the 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively" are people who'd never ever vote for Harper regardless of his position on Israel.

It's also likely that among those 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively" is a fair number who might have negative feelings about what Israel is doing w.r.t. settlements and walls and so on, but are still adamantly in favor of Israel's right to exist, to defend itself, and to take extraordinary security measures in the face of the threats against it. Of that 56%, it's doubtful how many have very strong opinions on the issue, and how negatively they view Israel is not clarified at all.

It is also quite possible that among those 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively", a fair number of them would "view Hamas et al even more negatively" if they were asked.

You're most likly right; perhaps, though, the government's stance will start having an effect on popular opinion. Perhaps it'll help counteract all the negative press. Time will tell.

I doubt the Harper government's support for Israel will convince the rabid pinko screaming lefties of Canada to give Israel another look.

-k

[Jack Weber]

That's a really good point. Lictor, for example, posts almost exclusively about one topic, and it's clearly a topic that's very interesting to him, but I doubt that anybody sees that as a redeeming trait.

There are a few posters on this forum who are so predictably one-note that I no longer bother reading their opinions. There are quite a few threads on the forum that I just don't bother opening, because I know full-well that they're going to suck. My mind might change later on if I see people I consider bright are posting in that thread, or if it generates a lot of posts in a hurry.

We've got a guy who only comes here to start threads about Liberal Party of Canada press releases. We've got people who make native activism threads all over the forum. There's others. I don't read their threads. I'm interested in discussions, not talking points, and happily there are still lots of people here who can participate in an interesting debate.

The Harper government's support for Israel and the results of this poll aren't in any conflict.

It's likely that a goodly chunk of the 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively" are people who'd never ever vote for Harper regardless of his position on Israel.

It's also likely that among those 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively" is a fair number who might have negative feelings about what Israel is doing w.r.t. settlements and walls and so on, but are still adamantly in favor of Israel's right to exist, to defend itself, and to take extraordinary security measures in the face of the threats against it. Of that 56%, it's doubtful how many have very strong opinions on the issue, and how negatively they view Israel is not clarified at all.

It is also quite possible that among those 56% of Canadians who "view Israel negatively", a fair number of them would "view Hamas et al even more negatively" if they were asked.

I doubt the Harper government's support for Israel will convince the rabid pinko screaming lefties of Canada to give Israel another look.

-k

I think a few of us eviscerated Lictor...He ain't coming back...

You're right,there are a few one trick ponies(Lictor was one of them...Naomi clearly qualifies)...They're easily ignored...Am I considered one of the "bright" ones?

I agree with you that discussion is far better than constantly spamming the board with the same topic with a slightly different variation.Like...We get the point already...The person in question in this thread,frankly,has rapidly become the worst offender of this.It would be one thing if that person occassionally posted on things that had nothing to do with the usual object of that persons obsession,but that's simply not the case.It would be another thing is that person stayed in an area of the board that was more specific to that persons interests.Now,this has spilled over into the federal politics board...

It's simply getting overplayed and played out....

[Bonam]

I agree with you that discussion is far better than constantly spamming the board with the same topic with a slightly different variation.Like...We get the point already...The person in question in this thread,frankly,has rapidly become the worst offender of this.It would be one thing if that person occassionally posted on things that had nothing to do with the usual object of that persons obsession,but that's simply not the case.It would be another thing is that person stayed in an area of the board that was more specific to that persons interests.Now,this has spilled over into the federal politics board...

Lol I remember after I repeatedly called out Naomi's previous persona (dub) on this, he made like 3 posts in other threads (not about Israel) just to be able to point to them and thus "demonstrate" that he also posts about other topics. Similarly, I think I recall seeing a few naomi posts in a couple non-Israel threads lately after people have been calling naomi out on this.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Bonam

[Bonam]

We've got a guy who only comes here to start threads about Liberal Party of Canada press releases. We've got people who make native activism threads all over the forum. There's others. I don't read their threads. I'm interested in discussions, not talking points, and happily there are still lots of people here who can participate in an interesting debate.

Hah, apparently native activism has been canceled in favor of bashing Israel more. Have you seen charter.rights new signature?

[Remiel]

I am pretty sure that anyone who has been paying attention has noticed that Bob is a similar one trick pony. Well, to be fair, he has two tricks. One is posting about Israel, and the other is making incredibly stupid comments in which he presumes to be the authority on the lives and character of people he disgrees with.

In all seriousness, naomiglover doesn't care about either side of this conflict. She's wrapped herself up in self-righteousness to make up for lacking anything meaningful in her life. The endless posting gives her a sense of purpose, a sense of meaning.

She's never donated a dime to any genuine charity or ever volunteered a minute of her time to make a positive difference in the world (attending an Israel hate-fest demonstration doesn't count as volunteering). You can claim to be passionate all you want about this issue or that, but the emptiness of your inaction speaks volumes to what really matters to you. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions are surely empty. I know what kind of person you are, there are millions of you out there. Armies of people like yourself with no meaning in their lives with nothing of value to contribute to the world except the condemnation of things and people they don't understand.

You've got no stake in the matter, so it's easy for you to just look at deaths and injuries as facts in a news article. I'll say it again, you're too ignorant and hate-filled to have any hope for redemption.

Hating Israel with all your venom won't fill whatever spiritual void is inside you.

Surprise surprise, "Jesse Rosenfeld", another ignorant and degenerate moron Jew liberal arts graduate who spits on the defense of freedom against its enemies and supports terrorists.

[Machjo]

Why? Because..

In this International BBC Poll:

27% of Canadians have a positive view of Israel, while 56% have a negative.

This a big contrast to the United States where, 41% have a positive view of Israel and 33% a negative view.

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view was negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

This is way oversimpified. I could break it down to at least the following categories:

1. Hates Jews and wants the State of Israel wiped off of the map. That would be one anti-semitic category.

2. Hates Jews and wants to preserve the state of Israel as a place to send them all off to.

3. Hates Jews but still adheres to international law and so would like the borders of Israel to return to their former boundaries as defined by international law and have Israel abide by international law.

Though all three positions above are very different, they'd still be equally antisemitic.Then we have:

4. Friendly towards Jews, believes Israel can do no wrong, and so wants to preserve its borders as is and defends Israel at all times.

5. Friendly towards Jews but still believes the state of Israel ought to be wiped off the map since it does not represent the Jewish people and is occupying another people's territory.

6. Friendly towards Jews but expects Israel to abide by international laws and UN Resolutions, including retreating back to within its legally recognized boundaries.

Again, though the three last positions above are totally different and even overlap with the first three, none of the last three are antisemitic. Add to that that there are also two separate campes between those who make no distinction between Jews and the state of Israel and those who do, and these camps themselves are not neatly divided between Jews and non-Jews. Just as there are Christian Zionists who make no distinction between the State of Israel and Jews, there are also ultra-orthodox Jews who deny that the State of Israel is a Jewish state, insisting that Zionism and the Jewish Faiths are incompatible.

I personally fall into category number 6 above and do make a distinction between the State of Israel on the one hand and Jews on the other, an recognize that a person's beliefs about the State of Israel, Jews, and Zionists can be distinct from one another.

And of course I may very well have missed some other categories too. But as you can see, if the poll failed to make a distinction between one's beliefs and feelings about Jews on the one hand and their views on the State of Israel on the other, then that poll is beyond flawed and reveals nothing about one's position on Jews. To ask one's views on the State of Israel an then confound them with one's views about Jews is like asking a person what he thinks of Canada and then extrapolating from that to see what he thinks of Canada's First Nations and Inuit. Total non-sequitur.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Machjo

[g_bambino]

Total non-sequitur.

No kidding.