punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) Wow... And yet last week you told us that the party had moved on from the salient words and thought of one Tommy Douglas... Punked,your "progressivity" is beginning to fail you... And the week before that I recommended that someone read an FRD speech so what? As much as things change the NDP still believes all children should be able to eat and not starve. Maybe you have a problem with that I don't, that isn't a progressive issue it is a humanitarian one I don't think the Party will ever out grow the great Douglas stance of "Children should eat". Didn't know you had a different opinion Jack. Edited June 16, 2010 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 That's assuming she knows the difference between '48 and '67. It seems to me she doesn't. I don't think she knows what she's saying. Probably not... Essentially,she seems to be the usual cluless leftist who does'nt really have a grasp on anything other than her special interest groups interests... She should stick to "Reaching for the Rainbow",if ya' catch my drift... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I agree. However if Israel wants those things closing down the boarders so nothing can get in or out because those in Gaza democratically elected someone they didn't like is never gonna get them closer to those things. Which is what Davis was saying. I didn't like when they elected Hamas either but they did, and they did in a democratic election so Israel might want to get over that. You can't say their will be a settlement freeze in the West Bank in exchange for something then a month later start building settlements. That isn't how it works. It goes two ways over there which again is why I keep saying the situation is complex and we should but out. That's simply not true. Gazans (and other Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims) have been murdering Jews around the world LONG BEFORE '67, and certainly long before the 2006 blockade of Gaza. Israel is dealing with the control of Hamas the way it should, by sealing Gaza off and reducing the likelihood of them acquiring weaponds to murder more Israelis. Even with the blockade, they still manage to acquire weapons and carry out terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 And the week before that I recommended that someone read an FRD speech so what? As much as things change the NDP still believes all children should be able to eat and not starve. Maybe you have a problem with that I don't, that isn't a progressive issue it is a humanitarian one I don't think the Party will ever out grow the great Douglas stance of "Children should eat". Didn't know you had a different opinion Jack. So... Douglas correct on starving children.(which I agree with,by the way) Douglas wrong on gay marriage because he was'nt "progressive" enough,because being a Prebyterian minister,he had a moral centre... Got it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) Probably not... Essentially,she seems to be the usual cluless leftist who does'nt really have a grasp on anything other than her special interest groups interests... She should stick to "Reaching for the Rainbow",if ya' catch my drift... Definitely. Trying to see the world the way she wants to see it rather than the way it really is. Edited June 16, 2010 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Probably not... Essentially,she seems to be the usual cluless leftist who does'nt really have a grasp on anything other than her special interest groups interests... She should stick to "Reaching for the Rainbow",if ya' catch my drift... Again Jack no one has a grasp on the situation in the middle East. You might forget this but Ignatieff's position is we should drop troops into Israel and force a two state solution. The Liberals better be careful because someone might actually read Ignatieff's writings (outside of myself who actually does read) and realize he is crazier then Davis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Again Jack no one has a grasp on the situation in the middle East. You might forget this but Ignatieff's position is we should drop troops into Israel and force a two state solution. The Liberals better be careful because someone might actually read Ignatieff's writings (outside of myself who actually does read) and realize he is crazier then Davis. Wow, what a moron he is. Could you tell me where he's written that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 So... Douglas correct on starving children.(which I agree with,by the way) Douglas wrong on gay marriage because he was'nt "progressive" enough,because being a Prebyterian minister,he had a moral centre... Got it... Yes right on starving children, wrong on Gay's in general because he thought (as many his age did) that it was some disorder that could be changed. The science has changed from the 1950s we no longer think it is a mental disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Wow, what a moron he is. Could you tell me where he's written that? It was in a NYT article hold on it will take me 10 minutes to dig it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Again Jack no one has a grasp on the situation in the middle East. You might forget this but Ignatieff's position is we should drop troops into Israel and force a two state solution. The Liberals better be careful because someone might actually read Ignatieff's writings (outside of myself who actually does read) and realize he is crazier then Davis. If that's the case,Davies would do herself a HHHUUUUGGGGEEEE favour by shutting her yap. She did'nt.... And,in a frank,calm,and,matter of fact way tacitly admitted the state of Israel did'nt have the rigth to exist... Either that,or she's completely and utterly clueless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Yes right on starving children, wrong on Gay's in general because he thought (as many his age did) that it was some disorder that could be changed. The science has changed from the 1950s we no longer think it is a mental disorder. I agree..Not a mental disorder... But he was a Presbyterian minister...I'm Presbyterian,and I know it's position on that matter... And it's not the NDP's position.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) Here is the real Liberal Solution. I know someone here works for the conservatives now that the Liberals are banging their Israel drum might be a good time to leak this to someone other then myself. BTW it says the only for peace is for the US to drop troops in and force a two state solution. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/19/israel3/print Edited June 16, 2010 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I agree..Not a mental disorder... But he was a Presbyterian minister...I'm Presbyterian,and I know it's position on that matter... And it's not the NDP's position.... Yeah I remember their stance was Tommy couldn't run didn't seem to stop him. Regardless he was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Yeah I remember their stance was Tommy couldn't run didn't seem to stop him. Regardless he was wrong. No...I meant the church's position right now... Somehow I doubt Douglas,the Prebyterian minister,would call gay marriage a "human right" no matter what era... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 No...I meant the church's position right now... Somehow I doubt Douglas,the Prebyterian minister,would call gay marriage a "human right" no matter what era... He isn't here so I can't ask him. However he wasn't Jesus, he wasn't God he made mistakes and guess he was wrong. Politicians aren't gods and I wouldn't want them to be. They are human they make mistakes you just hope they are making the right decisions for the times they live in to make Canada a great nation. I think we have done pretty good for ourselves up until this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 He isn't here so I can't ask him. However he wasn't Jesus, he wasn't God he made mistakes and guess he was wrong. Politicians aren't gods and I wouldn't want them to be. They are human they make mistakes you just hope they are making the right decisions for the times they live in to make Canada a great nation. I think we have done pretty good for ourselves up until this point. I agree.... But he was'nt wrong about that one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 This woman is a blithering idiot. How does she figure that Israel's been an occupying force since 1948? Does she even know history? Her views are either based on very little knowledge, or anti-semetism, and she reminds me of the recently and thankfully retired Helen Thomas in the United States. For one thing, Helen Thomas family came from Lebannon and probably knows more about Israel than you or I. Right now, Obama and Israel aren't as close as the US has been in the past and didn't need anyone to rock the boat further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 For one thing, Helen Thomas family came from Lebannon and probably knows more about Israel than you or I. Right now, Obama and Israel aren't as close as the US has been in the past and didn't need anyone to rock the boat further. Another thing is, Shady was refewring to Libby Davis, not Helen Thomas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Probably not... Essentially,she seems to be the usual cluless leftist who does'nt really have a grasp on anything other than her special interest groups interests... She should stick to "Reaching for the Rainbow",if ya' catch my drift... I'm not going to smear everyone on the Left (because there are some pretty damned intelligent people there) by Davies' outrageous comments, but it certainly doesn't help the NDP that Layton isn't turfing her from the front lines. She always was a self-important annoying loudmouth. She needs to go, and go now. If Layton won't fire her, then she needs to quit. I don't have a problem with supporting the Palestinian cause (as long as it comes with the admission that the Palestinians all too frequently have done themselves no favors), but this clear denial of Israel's right to exist is a show-stopper. I've never taken the NDP all that seriously, but this is the sort of nonsense I expect from some Green Party member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted June 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Here is the real Liberal Solution. I know someone here works for the conservatives now that the Liberals are banging their Israel drum might be a good time to leak this to someone other then myself. BTW it says the only for peace is for the US to drop troops in and force a two state solution. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/19/israel3/print That is truly ...I don't know the right word....Inspiring? Illuminating? Humourous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 So you support ethnically cleansing a future Palestinian state of Jews through dismantling of "settlements"? It's hardly genocide when you are occupying and building settlements to (well to me anyways) purposefully dispose the other ethnic group. These settlements are fiercely defended by the IDF and Israeli police forces. It is not Israeli land. Israel can help it's own situation by building settlements in it's own territories and getting out of the occupied territories. Most don't think this is a big deal, but I will say it will help tremendously and improve the situation and relations between Israel and the future state(s) of Palestine. Nothing creates desperation in Gaza more than these settlements, razing of Gazan buildings, and the prevention of needed supplies for the general population. These are 3 key factors in why people support the Palestinians. Just because some of us support Palestinians, does NOT mean we support a terror group. Although some here have tried their best to make that connection stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 It's hardly genocide when you are occupying and building settlements to (well to me anyways) purposefully dispose the other ethnic group. These settlements are fiercely defended by the IDF and Israeli police forces. It is not Israeli land. Israel can help it's own situation by building settlements in it's own territories and getting out of the occupied territories. Most don't think this is a big deal, but I will say it will help tremendously and improve the situation and relations between Israel and the future state(s) of Palestine. Nothing creates desperation in Gaza more than these settlements, razing of Gazan buildings, and the prevention of needed supplies for the general population. These are 3 key factors in why people support the Palestinians. Just because some of us support Palestinians, does NOT mean we support a terror group. Although some here have tried their best to make that connection stick. So will you be joining a movement to see Bohemia returned to Austria, Danzig returned to Germany and the Kurils to Japan? You do know how the Israelis managed to get on to that land to begin with, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 So will you be joining a movement to see Bohemia returned to Austria, Danzig returned to Germany and the Kurils to Japan? You do know how the Israelis managed to get on to that land to begin with, right? So why not just claim all Palestinian land as Israel and be done with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Nothing creates desperation in Gaza more than these settlements... There are no settlements in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) So will you be joining a movement to see Bohemia returned to Austria, Danzig returned to Germany and the Kurils to Japan? You do know how the Israelis managed to get on to that land to begin with, right? It is the official stance of every single nation--including Canada, including the United States, and even, off and on, including Israel, that the settlements should not be there. I don't know why you'd wish to align yourself with the most fanatical, reactionary minority on this issue. In fact, in all the debates I've witnessed with Israelis on this issue, only settlers themselves defend this...and these are the types of people who refer to the Palestinians as "Philistines" (No joke!), and think all the land is theirs because a tribal God says so. Even our fellow poster Bob, who has effectively asserted that criticism of Israel itself constitutes antisemitism, and that the entire world simply "hates the Jews"...even HE is oppsoed to the settlements. So your stance is a little puzzling. Edited June 16, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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