Israeli Navy Raids Gaza Aid Flotilla, 10 Confirmed Dead

[bush_cheney2004]

You have an over load of Israeli apologists. Could it be that the average AMERICA big and small actually believe in that stero-typical thinking that the Jews rule the world economically and only Jews know how to generate money? I remember ALLAN GREENSPAN addressing congress - all the rich anglo congress men looked upon him like he was god...Israel is not god.

No..it's not that complicated. See, I'm an old school kinda guy....who shot Bobby Kennedy?

[GostHacked]

I wonder when JB Globe will get around to fixing the post title?

... the 10 confirmed dead has been confirmed incorrent for quite awhile now...

So tell us what the real number of deaths are.

[M.Dancer]

So tell us what the real number of deaths are.

Originally the number was 19...then somethig like 12...then 10...now there are 9...

[Bonam]

Two areas which are no longer connected. It's going to turn into a 3 state solution unless an established corridor can be set up between the two territories so the Palestinians can travel between the two territories safely.

That won't happen in my life time I am sure of it.

The last peace proposal included an elevated highway between the two territories, passing unobstructed through Israel. Not that hard really.

That being said, it might well turn into a 3 state solution; Hamas will not want to relinquish its rulership of Gaza.

[GostHacked]

Originally the number was 19...then somethig like 12...then 10...now there are 9...

I've only ever heard 9-10 people being killed, from both sides. Maybe you can cite something for me?

[M.Dancer]

I've only ever heard 9-10 people being killed, from both sides. Maybe you can cite something for me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid#Deaths

Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

Al Jazeera's report on board the Mavi Marmara before communications were cut

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of aid-carrying ships aiming to break the country's siege on Gaza.

At least 19 people were killed

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html

Trust Al Jazz...

[ToadBrother]

The last peace proposal included an elevated highway between the two territories, passing unobstructed through Israel. Not that hard really.

That being said, it might well turn into a 3 state solution; Hamas will not want to relinquish its rulership of Gaza.

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Everyone loves to piss on Israel, but few of the "activists" out there realize what an internally divided mess the Palestinian territories are. If they didn't have Israel to fight, the hostility between the various Palestinian factions would probably blossom into an all-out civil war.

[myata]

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Everyone loves to piss on Israel, but few of the "activists" out there realize what an internally divided mess the Palestinian territories are. If they didn't have Israel to fight, the hostility between the various Palestinian factions would probably blossom into an all-out civil war.

And it's not like we'd have nothing to do with it (as is becoming quite usual). Remember who it was dictating which government they should and which could not, have in Palestine?

[dre]

And it's not like we'd have nothing to do with it (as is becoming quite usual). Remember who it was dictating which government they should and which could not, have in Palestine?

That situation is a perfect example of how ignorant the west is about the conflict. We pushed hard for democracy there, and in some cases made elections a pre-condition for aid. Well... what the fuck did we EXPECT was gonna happen? People who live under a brutal military occupation dont vote for doves...

[Oleg Bach]

No..it's not that complicated. See, I'm an old school kinda guy....who shot Bobby Kennedy?

Lucky you stuck the question mark at the end of your sentence. I just think it's grand when the Israelis set up a "platform" in the form of a helicopter gun ship and like exterminators spray the pesky bugs - real brave.

[myata]

People who live under a brutal military occupation dont vote for doves...

Or even in generally harsh conditions.. looks on the other side; it's been a long while since there were any real doves there either. But we like our principles to work only one way - on others and in our favour. If not, then good bye principles (democracy, justice, objectivity and so on).

[Guest American Woman]

How could it be based on facts if you already decided to "speak for" regardless? I thought that presumes that no further input (thoughts; facts; rational argumentation based on objective reality, etc) would be needed?

That would mean you should reconsider what you "thought" and "presume[d]." Unless you're ok with being stupid remaining ignorant. In which case, carry on.....

Have a great weekend.

[naomiglover]

That would mean you should reconsider what you "thought" and "presume[d]." Unless you're ok with being stupid remaining ignorant. In which case, carry on.....

Have a great weekend.

Why do you pretend that you're above name calling and above being biased and that you're an impartial objective poster, when you clearly are not.

Have a great weekend. You stupid idiot.

[Guest American Woman]

I intend to. Thank you very much.

[dre]

Man... never fails.

Theres no subject on earth that results in lower quality debates than those two gangs of morons fighting over that horrid dump of a piece of realestate.

[Guest American Woman]

Man... never fails.

Theres no subject on earth that results in lower quality debates than those two gangs of morons fighting over that horrid dump of a piece of realestate.

"Horrid dump of a piece of real estate" is relative, I suppose, to whether it's your real estate in question or not. But it's not about the "real estate;" it's about the right for a Jewish state to exist.

And fact is, after awhile, I give back just a bit of what I get. In spades. And then I leave it all behind to have a good weekend, so here's wishing the same for you.

[dre]

"Horrid dump of a piece of real estate" is relative, I suppose, to whether it's your real estate in question or not. But it's not about the "real estate;" it's about the right for a Jewish state to exist.

And fact is, after awhile, I give back just a bit of what I get. In spades. And then I leave it all behind to have a good weekend, so here's wishing the same for you.

Yea I wasnt addressing you personally just the inevitable deterioration of these threads into silliness.

And you have a great weekend yourself!

[bush_cheney2004]

Lucky you stuck the question mark at the end of your sentence. I just think it's grand when the Israelis set up a "platform" in the form of a helicopter gun ship and like exterminators spray the pesky bugs - real brave.

Robert Kennedy was not in a helicopter gunship.

[BCMan]

American Woman, you have lost the credibility of being a fair poster.

Btw, why is this discussion going from Flotilla raid to Robert Kennedy?

Let’s try to stick to the topic.

New footage released by a documentary maker onboard the ship.

"Israel attempted to confiscate all footage recorded by participants in the Gaza Freedom flotilla – including taking away mobile phones – but Lee managed to smuggle one hour of video out of the country by hiding it in her underwear, it was reported."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/11/gaza-flotilla-attack-new-video

There are also reports that more footage by others onbord will be released soon.

[JB Globe]

American Woman, you have lost the credibility of being a fair poster.

Btw, why is this discussion going from Flotilla raid to Robert Kennedy?

Let’s try to stick to the topic.

New footage released by a documentary maker onboard the ship.

"Israel attempted to confiscate all footage recorded by participants in the Gaza Freedom flotilla – including taking away mobile phones – but Lee managed to smuggle one hour of video out of the country by hiding it in her underwear, it was reported."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/11/gaza-flotilla-attack-new-video

There are also reports that more footage by others onbord will be released soon.

Link to the footage

You can watch the raw footage or an edited 15 minute version.

It should be noted that the earlier IDF video of the incident that everyone was waving around like it was the one and only truth wasn't accompanied by any raw footage - which meant that no one could verify just how much or little of a hack-editing job it was.

[bush_cheney2004]

American Woman, you have lost the credibility of being a fair poster.

Btw, why is this discussion going from Flotilla raid to Robert Kennedy?

Let’s try to stick to the topic.

No...you will soon learn that in this forum, you can't hide behind the "topic".

[dre]

No...you will soon learn that in this forum, you can't hide behind the "topic".

Yeah staying on topic isnt that popular around here. I fully expect some retard to write a post shortly about how if you critize Israel without also giving equal time to critisizing the mongolian empire youre a hypocrit.

[Guest American Woman]

It should be noted that the earlier IDF video of the incident that everyone was waving around like it was the one and only truth wasn't accompanied by any raw footage - which meant that no one could verify just how much or little of a hack-editing job it was.

But of course we know this video wasn't edited at all, and we know it wasn't selectively shot. Only Israel's version is to be questioned. This footage is the one and only truth. Is that it?

Remember the fake Rachel Corrie bulldozer propaganda photo?

Not sure why you'd cast doubt on Israel's video, while presenting this video as somehow more telling. Do you really believe anyone on the ship would release any footage that made them look bad?

Edited June 12, 2010 by American Woman

[dre]

But of course we know this video wasn't edited at all, and we know it wasn't selectively shot. Only Israel's version is to be questioned. This footage is the one and only truth. Is that it?

Remember the fake Rachel Corrie bulldozer propaganda photo?

Not sure why you'd cast doubt on Israel's video, while presenting this video as somehow more telling. Do you really believe anyone on the ship would release any footage that made them look bad?

I dont buy a WORD that EITHER side says. Issues like this become a global public relations issue for both sides. Neither side would hesitate for a SECOND to engage in any deception possible if they thought it might help their side win that PR war.

I wouldnt trust Israelis or Palestinians as far as I can piss.

[Oleg Bach]

International waters is a no man's land - no one has exclusive rights to what in effect is the whole world...to drop out of the sky by repelling down ropes reminded me of pirates - and if pirates were coming down one by one from a chopper - I suppose it would make sense to wack them with a pipe one by one - seeing that moment was the most vulnerable - but later - the tables turned and guns were blasting. If they can in all moral justification - go to sovereign nations and assassinate who they want..and get away with it - acting like a the failed state of Samolia is fitting.