I Love This Man!

[Shady]

You hate education.

This is how retarded punked can be sometimes. You see, for people like him and his ilk, if you don't bow down at the alter of the teachers unions, you must hate education.

The fact is that in New Jersey, teachers were paying $0 dollars towards their benefits. That's right, you heard correctly, ZERO DOLLARS. Now they'll have to pay 1.5% of their salary. Also in New Jersey, public beaurocrats can retire early, and receive three times more than what they've paid into in pension benefits. It's a fiscal nightmare.

Anyone who supports that probably hates freedom, hates the middle class, hates business, and hates fairness.

[lukin]

This is how retarded punked can be sometimes. You see, for people like him and his ilk, if you don't bow down at the alter of the teachers unions, you must hate education.

The fact is that in New Jersey, teachers were paying $0 dollars towards their benefits. That's right, you heard correctly, ZERO DOLLARS. Now they'll have to pay 1.5% of their salary. Also in New Jersey, public beaurocrats can retire early, and receive three times more than what they've paid into in pension benefits. It's a fiscal nightmare.

Anyone who supports that probably hates freedom, hates the middle class, hates business, and hates fairness.

I find punked to be very uninformed on many issues. I'm not anti-public education. I just think public education is a mess due to various factors, one of which is teachers' unions. As a former teacher, I know a fair bit about the problems of education.

[punked]

This is how retarded punked can be sometimes. You see, for people like him and his ilk, if you don't bow down at the alter of the teachers unions, you must hate education.

The fact is that in New Jersey, teachers were paying $0 dollars towards their benefits. That's right, you heard correctly, ZERO DOLLARS. Now they'll have to pay 1.5% of their salary. Also in New Jersey, public beaurocrats can retire early, and receive three times more than what they've paid into in pension benefits. It's a fiscal nightmare.

Anyone who supports that probably hates freedom, hates the middle class, hates business, and hates fairness.

Some how teachers contributed 550,000,000 in 2008 alone. Somehow from 0 dollars teachers contributed 550,000,000 seems like Shady is good at math to. See what Shady did here is he took the Christie talking point of teachers should pay 1.5 MORE into their pension to mean they weren't paying anything before that is a lie. NJ teachers BEFORE Christie's 1.5 were contributing 5.5% so how about you stop the LIES Shayd the liar.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_johnbury/2009/04/new_jersey_teachers_pension_li.html

BTW over the last 30 years teachers pay increased slower then the average worker in the state.

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100606/COMMUNITIES/100604091/Over-decades-teacher-pay-rose-slower-than-for-all-workers-in-N-J-

Edited July 6, 2010 by punked

[punked]

I find punked to be very uninformed on many issues. I'm not anti-public education. I just think public education is a mess due to various factors, one of which is teachers' unions. As a former teacher, I know a fair bit about the problems of education.

I find I am the only on this forum that uses actual numbers which aren't made up. I know using real numbers means you are uninformed in the right wing but in the real world it does not.

Public education while it might not teach what you want has provided a great service to the first world and has kept us progressing with a much more educated society. You might not like teacher unions, but you are wrong to call it a mess.

[punked]

People who do that should be able to take all of the funding that would have gone to the public school and use it to pay the tuition on the private schools. Charter schools are a formal way to manage these transfers. There is no justification for a system where the only way to get public funding is to use a system controlled by a teachers union monopoly. Simply firing the union and keeping the monopoly does not help. The system needs competition.

Maybe but it wont happen.

[lukin]

I find I am the only on this forum that uses actual numbers which aren't made up. I know using real numbers means you are uninformed in the right wing but in the real world it does not.

Public education while it might not teach what you want has provided a great service to the first world and has kept us progressing with a much more educated society. You might not like teacher unions, but you are wrong to call it a mess.

How are you involved in the education business?

[punked]

How are you involved in the education business?

It is not a business first off. Second why does that matter?

[Shady]

You might not like teacher unions, but you are wrong to call it a mess.

It was a mess. Now that teachers actually have to contribute a little of their salary to their health benefits, the mess has been fixed at least a little.

Under another bill, teachers, who currently don’t contribute to medical-insurance costs, would have to give 1.5 percent of their salaries to premiums.

AP

It's good to see teacher's finally being brought into reality. They'll actually have to contribute a little to their health benefits. Instead of freeloading off of the reast of New Jersey tax payers.

[punked]

It was a mess. Now that teachers actually have to contribute a little of their salary to their health benefits, the mess has been fixed at least a little.

It's good to see teacher's finally being brought into reality. They'll actually have to contribute a little to their health benefits. Instead of freeloading off of the reast of New Jersey tax payers.

The mess thing was about the education system not teachers unions fighting with the government. That is a mess and will always be a mess because of both sides.

That isn't what you said Shady you said benefits, which a pension is part of. You were wrong they pay 5.5 toward their benefits.

As for teachers not paying toward their health benefits. That is the norm in many places seeing as how over the last 20 years teachers pay has increased at a rate lower then inflation and the average NJ worker one would think this was PART OF THE NEGOTIATION that went on between teachers and the government.

It also looks like the teachers might take the Government to court to make them contribute their share to the pension plan this year. Looks like Christie fight isn't over.

BTW it looks like 30,000 teachers in NJ will retire this year to avoid Christies pay freeze, roll backs, and pension cuts. For every teacher who retired early it puts a huge strain on the pension plan. Christie is thinking in days when he should be thinking in years. Typical.

Edited July 6, 2010 by punked

[Shady]

As for teachers not paying toward their health benefits. That is the norm in many places

It might be the norm, but it's wrong. And it's bankrupting states in the process. Instead, we get teachers who make $90,000 per year, complaining that they'll have to take a one year pay freeze. While at the same time they weren't paying anything toward their health benefits. It's pretty disgusting.

The problem with the teachers pension plan, is that it's a defined benefit plan, instead of a defined contribution plan. As a result, it's structurally unsustainable. Which is why most other public and private unions, as well as the private sector have phased them out, and only set up defined contriubtion plans.

But all of this is well above punked's head. Blaming the private sector for teachers union troubles is much easier then dirtying his hands with facts and substance.

[punked]

It might be the norm, but it's wrong. And it's bankrupting states in the process. Instead, we get teachers who make $90,000 per year, complaining that they'll have to take a one year pay freeze. While at the same time they weren't paying anything toward their health benefits. It's pretty disgusting.

The problem with the teachers pension plan, is that it's a defined benefit plan, instead of a defined contribution plan. As a result, it's structurally unsustainable. Which is why most other public and private unions, as well as the private sector have phased them out, and only set up defined contriubtion plans.

But all of this is well above punked's head. Blaming the private sector for teachers union troubles is much easier then dirtying his hands with facts and substance.

Their average teacher in NJ makes 50,000 stop with the talking points Shady. I know you want to make NJ teachers out to be these leaches who make millions they don't. 1 in 3 teachers are out of the profession after their first 5 years, their pay has increased slower then every other sector of the state and the State has screwed their pension. You might not like them but don't lie about them.

Teachers have put their share into their pension while the state deferred paying into it to call their budgets balanced. Then their is a problem and all of a sudden it is to bad get use to cat food. Like it or not getting 30,000 to retire the biggest retirement ever is not going to fix the pension plan but Christie is a short term thinker not a long term one. Like Shady.

It appears the voters in his state don't approve the measures either. 6 out of 10 disagree with most the things he has forced into this budget.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/poll_finds_nj_voters_split_on.html

Edited July 6, 2010 by punked

[Pliny]

Need I state my position regarding my approval of Christie?

Edited July 7, 2010 by Pliny

[jbg]

The guy looks like he might be related to that Albertan kook,Craig Chandler....

You may not agree with him but he's hardly a kook.

I don't live in NJ but I live in a similar area. The fact is that state and local taxes are out of control. As it is I love about 43% of my income to Federal and State income taxes right off the bat. Then I pay about $10,000 a year in property taxes, about $7,000 of which are School District taxes. Add in the sales and gasoline taxes and about 60% of my service income goes for taxes.

This is unsustainable. Governor Christie speaks to this constituency.

[Bortron]

This guy is awesome and I usually can't stand republicans.

[jbg]

This guy is awesome and I usually can't stand republicans.

By way of explanation Northeasern and California Republicans generally = Red Tories or perhaps Blue Grits (maybe a term I'm coining).

[Pliny]

By way of explanation Northeasern and California Republicans generally = Red Tories or perhaps Blue Grits (maybe a term I'm coining).

Red tory doesn't really fit Christie. But generally, I agree with you.

[jbg]

Red tory doesn't really fit Christie.

Educate me. Why not?

I know very little about Canada as you know.

[punked]

Seems like NJ lost out on half a billion dollars because their governer Chirstie doesn't know what he is doing. Ouch.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/former-nj-ed-commissioner-i-didnt-lie-to-gov-christie.php?ref=fpblg

[Shady]

Seems like NJ lost out on half a billion dollars because their governer Chirstie doesn't know what he is doing. Ouch.

Except that's not what happened at all.

[punked]

Except that's not what happened at all.

Except it is what happened then the Governor lied about it. Ouch he cost the tax payers half a billion dollar then Lied to them about it sounds like a guy Shady would love.

[Shady]

Except it is what happened then the Governor lied about it.

Once again, you're ignoring actual facts. But I'm not suprised.

[August1991]

Seems like NJ lost out on half a billion dollars because their governer Chirstie doesn't know what he is doing. Ouch.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/former-nj-ed-commissioner-i-didnt-lie-to-gov-christie.php?ref=fpblg

Let me get this straight. (Am I missing something?)

The US federal government under Obama creates a "Race For the Top" subsidy scheme and then a New Jersey government is excluded from the scheme because forms were not completed correctly.

Punked, if your definition of "...doesn't know what he is doing... " is based on an ability to complete government/bureaucratic forms, then I think the Western world is in a very sad state.

[Shady]

Let me get this straight. (Am I missing something?)

The US federal government under Obama creates a "Race For the Top" subsidy scheme and then a New Jersey government is excluded from the scheme because forms were not completed correctly.

Punked, if your definition of "...doesn't know what he is doing... " is based on an ability to complete government/bureaucratic forms, then I think the Western world is in a very sad state.

Exactly. Not to mention that it was the New Jersey department of education that handled the "Race For the Top" application. Not the governor.

[punked]

Let me get this straight. (Am I missing something?)

The US federal government under Obama creates a "Race For the Top" subsidy scheme and then a New Jersey government is excluded from the scheme because forms were not completed correctly.

Punked, if your definition of "...doesn't know what he is doing... " is based on an ability to complete government/bureaucratic forms, then I think the Western world is in a very sad state.

Nj provided the Budget numbers for the wrong years and thus was disqualified. It isn't like this was impossible to do many states have completed and received funds, NJ would have gotten half a billion if they didn't have a bunch of idiots running the show. Maybe it was the Department of Ed that screwed up, that would be the department of Ed the Governor appointed.

The biggest blunder is the Governor out right lied to the people as to why its government lost out on half a billion dollars it could have used to educate their children. Sucks it be Christie the lying incompetent governor right now.

[bush_cheney2004]

Points of order please:

1) The initiative is called "Race to the Top"...not "Race For The Top".

2) Some states chose not to even particpate in the program, though most attempted for at least Phase 1 (there are 2 Phases)

3) There are political and labor union reasons why several states did not pursue applications with vigor.

http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/nine-states-and-district-columbia-win-second-round-race-top-grants

...we now return you to your regular Canadian programming..."Guessing About America".