G8, G20 cost 1Billion

[Topaz]

Cost of holding these two are out of the world! The G8 has already been planned but Harper decided to hold the G20 also. Well, the taxpayers of Canada and the taxpayers of Ontario, who will get a double whammy of expenses. It cost more to protect these world leaders than to fight the Taliban for a year, the security for the Olympics. I listened to both CTV and CBC who had Tories on and one said the RCMP cost is 500Mil alone. I see they have private security, are they Canadian or US, like Blackwater, who we can't afford. I know Toronto, is called policemen from outside of Toronto from other communities. The NDP have called up the Auditor General to check out the cost on these events. CTV's Tom Clark had a councillor on from Toronto, and basically what he said that Toronto didn't have much notice of the G20 and that they really can't afford the cost they are going to have from this. He feels the Tories have done a poor job in organizing. http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=3070732

[Smallc]

As so many point out on here, I'm sure the military could use $1.1B.

[bjre]

No matter if this is just anther chance to be designed for cops and military to take more money from tax, this will be another contribution to increase the cost of Canadian products and service so that it will be worse to compete with those from other nations, and increase the possibility for more jobs flow to other nations.

Edited May 26, 2010 by bjre

[dre]

Why doesnt the G20 pay the bills for their own fuckin meeting? Why would we pay more than 1/20th?

[Smallc]

Why doesnt the G20 pay the bills for their own fuckin meeting? Why would we pay more than 1/20th?

You're joking right.

[margrace]

The right honourable Mr Clement only got his seat by 23 votes, I wonder if the people of Huntsville will give him a hugh majority for this honour. Especially if there is problems with protesters.

[Smallc]

That would be the Honourable Tony Clement...not Right Honourable.

[Argus]

Cost of holding these two are out of the world! The G8 has already been planned but Harper decided to hold the G20 also. Well, the taxpayers of Canada and the taxpayers of Ontario, who will get a double whammy of expenses. It cost more to protect these world leaders than to fight the Taliban for a year, the security for the Olympics. I listened to both CTV and CBC who had Tories on and one said the RCMP cost is 500Mil alone. I see they have private security, are they Canadian or US, like Blackwater, who we can't afford. I know Toronto, is called policemen from outside of Toronto from other communities. The NDP have called up the Auditor General to check out the cost on these events. CTV's Tom Clark had a councillor on from Toronto, and basically what he said that Toronto didn't have much notice of the G20 and that they really can't afford the cost they are going to have from this. He feels the Tories have done a poor job in organizing. http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=3070732

I'd like to see what the money is for. I'm assuming the vast majority is going for salaries, but wouldn't those salaries have to be paid regardless? Oh I'm sure there is some overtime, but how much? Ie, how much of this "billion dollars" would have been spent on salaries regardless of where the cops and soldiers and other security types were on any given weekend?

[nicky10013]

As a Torontonian, I'm shocked, apalled and frankly incredibly angry about the way the government has handled the entire event. First, they didn't even realize that Huntsville would have enough hotel rooms to accomodate the G20. So, they throw the thing into Toronto and consult the city council and don't take any of their advice. Instead of the exhibition grounds which is away from the downtown core and easily closed off, they picked the convention centre purely for the photo op without a care in the world about all the condos, companies, the major transportation hub for southern Ontario in Union Station, entertainment hub (theatre district, club district, eaton centre) and sporting events (had to move the Jays series to Philadelphia). We're three weeks away and the passes that were going to be issued to people needing to get into the downtown core are no where on the horizon. Now, companies are being told to either shut down or move off site because they haven't been able to organize that much in the short period of time given. Furthermore, U of T is not only shutting down it's downtown campus but is actually moving students in summer residence(where to I'm not sure) in order to get them away from the security and Queens Park North where there is a designated protest area. Not to mention, Pride Week starts the first day of the G20. Who knows what's going on with that.

I guess my point is considering the fact that nothing has been organized or has been organized in such a horrible way that their original plans can't be implemented, where is the billion dollars going? Barricades? That seems as about as much as they've thought about it. I have quite a few friends who live outside of the downtown core who want outside the city period. I don't blame them.

Edited May 26, 2010 by nicky10013

[Smallc]

I guess my point is considering the fact that nothing has been organized or has been organized in such a horrible way that their original plans can't be implemented, where is the billion dollars going? Barricades? That seems as about as much as they've thought about it. I have quite a few friends who live outside of the downtown core who want outside the city period. I don't blame them.

Well I do have to say, the security plan is far more comprehensive than that. It was in one of the papers last night. If by barricades, you mean 10 ft fences along with a multitude of other things, you'd be right.

[g_bambino]

Instead of the exhibition grounds which is away from the downtown core and easily closed off, they picked the convention centre purely for the photo op...

Well, that and the glaringly evident fact that there are no hotels anywhere near the place, meaning the conference attendees would all have to be shuttled through the downtown streets from their accomodation to Exhibition Place. Though, why Toronto's core needs to be turned into an impenetrable bunker is beyond me; there's security and then there's lunacy.

[grammar]

Edited May 27, 2010 by g_bambino

[M.Dancer]

Back in the late 80s we hosted a G-something or other. I lived in yorkville a stones throw from the 4 seasons....during the whole event a helicopter hovered over the hotel as the French delegation was staying there...24 hours a day..whop whop whop....

Mind you, the hospitality tent was world class...come to think of it, toronto started calling everything in toronto world class....which is a euphemism for "Just like NYC"

...gosh I hope we've matured since then

[kimmy]

I'd like to see what the money is for. I'm assuming the vast majority is going for salaries, but wouldn't those salaries have to be paid regardless? Oh I'm sure there is some overtime, but how much? Ie, how much of this "billion dollars" would have been spent on salaries regardless of where the cops and soldiers and other security types were on any given weekend?

I'm utterly floored by this figure, and we simply need to see some official explanation of how this money is going to be spent.

If the $930 million went entirely to salaries, and the average salary of the RCMP and military personnel were $40/hr, that would be 23 million man-hours. Supposing 5 days of security operations, 24 hours per day, at each of the 2-day events, that would be 240 hours of security... so 23 million man-hours over 240 hours of security would work out to about 96,000 men. Is that credible? No, it is not. The article says that up to 10,000 people may be involved in security.

What else is the money being spent on? The article suggests: "The estimates said the extra funding will be used to "design, plan, co-ordinate and implement security operations," provide accommodations for the RCMP and its security partners, ensure the safety of all "Internationally Protected Persons" and procure information technology and portable communications."

Accomodations are obviously a big item. I'm sure that transportation is also a big item.

What else? "Information technology" and "portable communications"? Seriously?

This is ridiculous, and sounds like a heist to me. I hope Sheila Fraser is on this.

-k

[dre]

I'm utterly floored by this figure, and we simply need to see some official explanation of how this money is going to be spent.

If the $930 million went entirely to salaries, and the average salary of the RCMP and military personnel were $40/hr, that would be 23 million man-hours. Supposing 5 days of security operations, 24 hours per day, at each of the 2-day events, that would be 240 hours of security... so 23 million man-hours over 240 hours of security would work out to about 96,000 men. Is that credible? No, it is not. The article says that up to 10,000 people may be involved in security.

What else is the money being spent on? The article suggests: "The estimates said the extra funding will be used to "design, plan, co-ordinate and implement security operations," provide accommodations for the RCMP and its security partners, ensure the safety of all "Internationally Protected Persons" and procure information technology and portable communications."

Accomodations are obviously a big item. I'm sure that transportation is also a big item.

What else? "Information technology" and "portable communications"? Seriously?

This is ridiculous, and sounds like a heist to me. I hope Sheila Fraser is on this.

-k

My guess is that most of the money will wind as profit in the pockets of various government lobbying private entities. These big government funded security operations are a profiteers wet dream.

[Smallc]

I sincerely doubt it's a 'heist'. What I think is that it may be a bit of an overreaction. I do wonder what Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is going to do with over $200M in 3 days though....especially since that money is separate from the money being given to the largest agency under their control (the RCMP).

[nicky10013]

Well, that and the glaringly evident fact that there are no hotels anywhere near the place, meaning the conference attendees would all have to be shuttled through the downtown streets from their accomodation to Exhibition Place. Though, why Toronto's core needs to be turned into an impenetrable bunker is beyond me; there's security and then there's lunacy.

[grammar]

They could close lower spadina and the lakeshore/gardiner for the weekend and use it as a dedicated laneway to the ex grounds. It's not like it isn't closed most weekends anyways.

[dre]

Well these things never start out as heists specifically. Thats what they turn into...

My guess is that when all is said and done there will all kinds of no bid conracts and so on, and a lot of government lobbying companies will make money. I hope Im wrong though!

[nicky10013]

Well I do have to say, the security plan is far more comprehensive than that. It was in one of the papers last night. If by barricades, you mean 10 ft fences along with a multitude of other things, you'd be right.

The plan may have been comprehensive but ask around to see any of it has actually been implemented. The answer would startle you. As I mentioned before, businesses have been twisting in the wind because what they know, it's generally through the news. I absolutely don't doubt that these things are expensive. I don't expect them to come cheap. I also realize there will be more of a cost as no country has hosted a joint G20-G8. However, in London at the first G20, costs were at only about 180 million and the G20 is the much larger of the two events. The numbers just do not add up.

[Moonlight Graham]

They should have had the meetings in the middle of nowhere in some big chalet on a lake, instead of freaking downtown Toronto! How stupid can you get? Next time move it to Moosejaw or something.

[Smallc]

They should have had the meetings in the middle of nowhere in some big chalet on a lake, instead of freaking downtown Toronto! How stupid can you get? Next time move it to Moosejaw or something.

I don't think that any previous G20 has been held in a small place. Such a thing would be pretty much impossible. They're expecting something like 20,000 politicians, dignitaries, and journalists.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Smallc

[dre]

The plan may have been comprehensive but ask around to see any of it has actually been implemented. The answer would startle you. As I mentioned before, businesses have been twisting in the wind because what they know, it's generally through the news. I absolutely don't doubt that these things are expensive. I don't expect them to come cheap. I also realize there will be more of a cost as no country has hosted a joint G20-G8. However, in London at the first G20, costs were at only about 180 million and the G20 is the much larger of the two events. The numbers just do not add up.

Numbers seem to add up fine for me...

700 million in fraud, no bid contracts, political awards etc PLUS 300 in real market value costs = ONE BILLION.

[AcuteAngst]

waste of taxpayer dollars !

[waldo]

I don't think that any previous G20 has been held in a small place. Such a thing would be pretty much impossible. They're expecting something like 20,000 politicians, dignitaries, and journalists.

when it was still the G8 => 28th G8 Summit - took place in Kananaskis, Alberta, Canada on June 26 and June 27, 2002.

Kananaskis was selected because of its isolated location. Security was augmented by F-18 jet fighters and helicopters which patrolled the skies non-stop; all major thoroughfares were closed, many of the shops in nearby Calgary were boarded up, and police reportedly outnumbered protesters six to one. It was the largest peacetime security operation in Canadian history.

Security was very tight at the summit, costing taxpayers in excess of $200-million. It attracted thousands of protesters and security was provided by 5,000 to 7,000 police and military officers

quite the spread from the quoted $200 million for security at Kananaskis... to the projected/budgeted $1 billion G20/Toronto. Surely, Harper Conservatives wouldn't be playing up the optics by choosing a more conspicuous Toronto locale - surely!

[DrGreenthumb]

when it was still the G8 => 28th G8 Summit - took place in Kananaskis, Alberta, Canada on June 26 and June 27, 2002.

quite the spread from the quoted $200 million for security at Kananaskis... to the projected/budgeted $1 billion G20/Toronto. Surely, Harper Conservatives wouldn't be playing up the optics by choosing a more conspicuous Toronto locale - surely!

How did this all of a sudden get so much more expensive than the government's earlier predictions? Oh wait, did Jim "wonder boy" Flaherty do the math again?

[margrace]

That would be the Honourable Tony Clement...not Right Honourable.

Is that all you could find?