Research Paper: Seal Hunt

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes a bunch of people cried about the cute seals being killed so a ban was put in place. Result of that ban? Peoples livelyhoods being destroyed and many nearly starving. Oh no don't kill the cute little babies even though killing the youngest animals is the best way to control the population. And there is a very important line in that paragraph, "The hunting of whitecoats in Canada for commercial purposes has now been banned since 1987, but is still permitted for personal use." Looks like they aren't that protected.

The point of this little trip down memory lane is that Canada itself put limits on the seal hunt just for the reasons cited by American Woman. I remember this argument going back at least to the early 1970's....even Brigitte Bardot was kicking sealer ass.

Yes because that's a great characterization of a tool specifically designed for the job. One that has very strict regulations at that.

It's still funny as hell. "Grog, can I borrow your hakapik (spiked club)...mine is in the shop." LOL!

Except it doesn't a small percentage of very vocal activists complain while the vast majority of people couldn't care less. If people did care the seal hunt would have been banned already.

Doesn't matter to me.....it's just fun to watch this circus unfold every year for a measly $20 million inductry.

Yes but killing them because they are considered pests is not.

Nope...we have seal bombs and other methods before execution. I've worked with some big goddamn seals and sea lions on the west coast, not these tiny creatures that so easily succumb to a Grog club. C'mon brave sealers, come try some of that shit on a bull elephant seal.

Edited May 17, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest TrueMetis]

It is legal in Canada to kill seal pups when they are about 12 days old. During last year's hunt, almost all the seals killed were 3 months old or younger. Many had not yet learned how to swim or eaten their first solid meals. Baby seals are helpless and have no way to escape from the sealers' clubs. link

Seals who have not yet learned to swim and haven't eaten their first solid meal yet are "babies."

I love sites like this that claim is nestled amongst such b#llshit as "An estimated 42 percent of the animals are skinned alive." Yes cause any good hunter is going to risk injury and ruining the pelt by skinning a live animal.

Considering whitecoats have been known to be able to swim your link is crap. My link

97% of the seals killed in the commercial seal hunt are between the ages of 12 days and 12 weeks old. link

That does make it different from other kills in the wild and insisting that it doesn't shows complete ignorance.

Since they can swim and escape your wrong there but this link is even worse.

3. Is the seal hunt humane? NO. The seal pups are struck over the head with a hakapik (a club with a sharp metal pick attached) or shot with a rifle. Often the animals are struck multiple times, dragged across the ice with a hook and skinned while still alive. Some animals get away after being struck or shot and die a long and agonizing death.

Every report ever done on the Canadian seal hunt says that's wrong.

This is the qoute I bring out whenever this comes up. "From a total of 509 animals examined at this time there was reported to be only one other case of the animal not being rendered unconscious. This appears to be a fantastically high average of humane killing." (99.82%)"

Dr. Keith Rondald, Dean, College of Biological Science, University of Guelph

But hey lets give you another one.

"I have examined the craniums of thousands of seal pups and I have never observed one that did not have massive hemorrhage in the brain which is an indication that the animal was rendered unconscious and therefore incapable of feeling any pain."

Dr. Harry Rowsell, D.V.M., D.V.P.R., PH.D

Department of Pathology, University of Ottawa, Canadian Council of Animal Care

4. Is the seal hunt sustainable? NO. Over the past 10 years, between 2/3 and 1/2 of the seal pup population have been slaughtered by commercial sealers. The seal population is already threatened by global warming. As the ice cover rapidly disappears, the seal population is facing devastating rates of natural mortalities.

That explains why the harp seal population has been increaseing.

2. Do aboriginal people depend on the annual commercial seal hunt? NO. There are no Inuits involved in the commercial seal hunt. They simply do not favour harp and hooded seals.

I'm going to let an inuit answer this one. My link

6. Are you paying for the commercial seal hunt? YES. Over $20 million in government subsidies have been provided to the Canadian sealing industry over the period 1995-2001. While tracking subsidies to the sealing industry is difficult (the information is not public), $400,000 in government subsidies were granted as recently as 2004 to two sealing companies.

The Seal hunt hasn't been subsidized since 2001. The $400000 in government subsidies they are talking about sounds like crap.

7. Are sealers using all parts of the seals as a necessary part of survival? NO. The seals are killed for their fur to be sold to high-end retailers like Gucci, Prada and Dolce & Gabbana. Seal penises are sold in Asia as aphrodisiacs and seal oil is sold as a health supplement. Since there is no market for the meat, the skinned corpses are left on the ice to rot.

There is no market for meat because of the anti-sealing protesters. Can you say flip flop? Anyway the largest portion of the meat is taken the meat in the flippers. The rest does not rot it is consumed by sea birds and when the ice it is on melt by marine life.

8. Would sealers suffer if the hunt stopped? NO. The sealers are fishermen who make 95% of their income from the fishing industry. Because of this unpopular seal slaughter, tourists are boycotting Newfoundland and restaurants are boycotting Canadian seafood. Profits could only increase if the seal hunt stopped.

Sealers make 35-% percent of their money from the seal hunt depending on the sealer. Let's take 35-5% of these people annual income away. See what happens even the people who just got 5% would have to deal with a fairly large loss. The boycott's are crap Canadian seafood imports have increased not decreased, unless they've gone down from the reccession.

9. Are there more sustainable and profitable alternatives to sealing? YES. At the rate the seals are being killed, there will be none left to slaughter in a few years. It is much more sustainable and profitable to explore ecotourism as an attraction for this area.

The first claim is obviouslly bull. So is the second eco-tourism would employ a fraction of what is currently being employed.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The point of this little trip down memory lane is that Canada itself put limits on the seal hunt just for the reasons cited by American Woman. I remember this argument going back at least to the early 1970's....even Brigitte Bardot was kicking sealer ass.

Except they're still being hunted your point is moot.

It's still funny as hell. "Grog, can I borrow your hakapik (spiked club)...mine is in the shop." LOL!

It's no different from any tool designed for a job.

Doesn't matter to me.....it's just fun to watch this circus unfold every year for a measly $20 million inductry.

It's not measly for those that depend on it for their livelyhood.

Nope...we have seal bombs and other methods before execution. I've worked with some big goddamn seals and sea lions on the west coast, not these tiny creatures that so easily succumb to a Grog club. C'mon brave sealers, come try some of that shit on a bull elephant seal.

Sealer have better things to do than your pest control.

[bush_cheney2004]

Except they're still being hunted your point is moot.

...and you're in denial. Your own nation has placed such restrictions.

It's no different from any tool designed for a job.

OK...thanks Grog! Ugg!

It's not measly for those that depend on it for their livelyhood.

Not if the market disappears....better to invest in eco-tourism than a new hakapik. Gee, I wonder if they can sell them on eBay?

Sealer have better things to do than your pest control.

Big brave puppy killers don't want to tangle with one of those....mike make them part of their harem! LOL!

[Guest TrueMetis]

...and you're in denial. Your own nation has placed such restrictions.

Since they're still being hunted obviously not.

Not if the market disappears....better to invest in eco-tourism than a new hakapik. Gee, I wonder if they can sell them on eBay?

Cause Europe is such a huge market.

[bush_cheney2004]

Since they're still being hunted obviously not.

Not before molting....you refuse to accept the obvious impact of activism in your own nation for the past 40 years.

Cause Europe is such a huge market.

It's a large part of pelt importation and processing.

Export

Canada's biggest market for seal pelts is Norway.[54] Carino Limited is one of Newfoundland's largest seal pelt producers. Carino (CAnada–RIeber–NOrway) is marketing its seal pelts mainly through its parent company, GC Rieber Skinn, Bergen, Norway.[55] Canada sold pelts to eleven countries in 2004. The next largest wereGermany, Greenland, and China/Hong Kong. Other importers were Finland, Denmark, France, Greece, South Korea, and Russia.[56] Asia remains the principal market for seal meat exports.[57] One of Canada's market access priorities for 2002 was to "continue to press Korean authorities to obtain the necessary approvals for the sale of seal meat for human consumption in Korea."[58] Canadian and Korean officials agreed in 2003 on specific Korean import requirements for seal meat.[59] For 2004, only Taiwan and South Korea purchased seal meat from Canada.[36]

Canadian seal product exports reached $18 million (CAD) in 2006. Of this, $5.4 million went to the EU.[60] In 2009 the European Union banned all seal imports, shrinking the market.[61].

Where pelts once sold for more than $100, they now fetch $8 to $15 each.

[ZenOps]

Its just veiled protectionism.

Now that Britain is paying 12% debt (same as Greece), they really cant afford to be buying a luxury item like Canadian sealskin, or Corinthian leather, Florida lobsters, or two carat diamonds.

So don't worry too much about it, at this point in time with the negative press - we'd have to give it away like softwood lumber.

I'd much rather it stay in the country - Sealskin is a prized textile that Canada sorely needs (IE: no cotton industry) Sealskin lined boots, heck ill take a whole suit. And I'd love to eat smoked salmon all day.

Let the Europeans bombard the media with how good their itchy stinky wool sweaters are. I'll snuggle up in my inferior sealskin

Edited May 17, 2010 by ZenOps

[Guest TrueMetis]

Not before molting....you refuse to accept the obvious impact of activism in your own nation for the past 40 years.

Yes before molting, just as long as it isn't commercial. Also definately before molting even when commercial, it's a nit pick but harp seals go through multiple moltings.

It's a large part of pelt importation and processing.

You do realize there was a recent reccession right? Might that have something to do with lower prices? Considering how high prices were before there is obviously a demand and I gaurentee you prices will rise once again. Of course the market instability caused by the ban would have an affect to.

Edited May 17, 2010 by TrueMetis

[wyly]

I've been practising my own private boycotts for some years now. I try to avoid Chinese products when I can and now I have been doing the same for what comes from the EU.

I have no illusions that by myself I can have much effect but it makes me feel better! I have always believed that you sometimes need to do unto others as they have done unto you, for purposes of education.

It does brighten my day when I am in the supermarket reading the "country of origin" on a can of vegetables and I find someone beside me doing the same thing. The numbers may not be significant but it's nice to know I'm not alone!

same here Bill, my wife stopped drinking american wine as soon as they starting screwing our lumber industry...

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes before molting, just as long as it isn't commercial. Also definately before molting even when commercial, it's a nit pick but harp seals go through multiple moltings.

That's the issue...commercial sealing...not subsistence hunting.

You do realize there was a recent reccession right? Might that have something to do with lower prices? Considering how high prices were before there is obviously a demand and I gaurentee you prices will rise once again. Of course the market instability caused by the ban would have an affect to.

Oh sure....the sealing industry will return to the days of yore, just like whaling or buggy whip manufacturing. Thar she blows!

[Guest TrueMetis]

That's the issue...commercial sealing...not subsistence hunting.

Commercial hunting is subsistence hunting for most of the hunteds, they aren't going to get rich off of it but they will be able to pay their rent and get food, including the seal meat they eat.

Oh sure....the sealing industry will return to the days of yore, just like whaling or buggy whip manufacturing. Thar she blows!

Whaling is on the rise as well in Canada, the Faroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, Indonesia, Japan, Norway, Russia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and the United States.

[bush_cheney2004]

Commercial hunting is subsistence hunting for most of the hunteds, they aren't going to get rich off of it but they will be able to pay their rent and get food, including the seal meat they eat.

Not if they want to export pelts for their measely $20 million a year. That is not "subsistence" hunting.

Whaling is on the rise as well in Canada, the Faroe Islands, Greenland, Iceland, Indonesia, Japan, Norway, Russia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and the United States.

LOL...why not just cite the entire Wiki link. Busted!

[Guest TrueMetis]

Not if they want to export pelts for their measely $20 million a year. That is not "subsistence" hunting.

Say what you want but they do it for survival.

LOL...why not just cite the entire Wiki link. Busted!

You deny America participates in whaling?

[wyly]

1-the seals are not endangered, 2nd largest herd of wild mammals on the planet

2-baby animals are killed all the time for meat...this is why slaughterhouses don't allow cameras in their facilities...

3-I doubt euro's will give up their leather handbags, shoes, belts, furniture and car interiors why should others give up fur coats?

4-they are more humanly killed then many animals in slaughterhouses where animals are still trussed up with a meat hook and have their throats slashed... another reason slaughterhouses don't want cameras in their facilities...

5-it's a sustainable harvest unlike the whale harvest practised by Japan and Norway...

ban all euro products made from animal byproducts it an illegal trade restriction, if the government won't do it I'll do my own private ban...

Edited May 17, 2010 by wyly

[bush_cheney2004]

Say what you want but they do it for survival.

OK.....and heroin dealers sell smack for survival too! LOL!

You deny America participates in whaling?

No, I deny your bullshit claim about the surging whaling industry based on a list of nations from a very small Wiki article.

Hell, America kills more whales in at sea collisions than from "whaling".

[Argus]

I don't think it's ok, so it does present ethical difficulties for me.

Ethical difficulties? Give us all a break and don't try to pretend your "ethical difficulties" are anything but the flighty emotional reaction of an ignorant woman who goes "Awwwww" when she sees pictures of pretty seal pups.

Ethical difficulties? Your multinational conglomorates pillage the third world and you're worried about seals being harvested for their fur? How ludicrously shallow can your "ethical difficulties" go?

Your response is as ignorant as it gets.

You don't know anything about the seal hunt and it's none of your business anyway. Go home, ugly American. No one needs your self-absorbed ignorance here.

[Argus]

No matter what reasons are given, it is different from other kills in the wild, and that's what I was responding to; the claim that there is "hardly anything special or unusual about this hunt as opposed to any other types of animals that are harvested from the wild."

Spend a lot of time pondering kills in the wild, lady? Gone hunting, have you? Watched lots of films of "hunts in the wild"?

I'm guessing that 'the wild' to you, is when you see a cow while driving on the highway from one city to another.

[Argus]

Personally, I wish there was a way to harvest these seals alive, like by the tens of thousands, and then transport them to be released off the US and European coasts. Let them deciminate the fisheries there and we'll see how long before they start hunting them.

[Argus]

Say what you want but they do it for survival.

You realize you're trying to convince a Yankee troll whose only purpose for being on this site is to bait Canadians into pointless arguments.

[Argus]

Your hatred of "Negroes" and Americans is so noted. As far as having no life, what are you doing here? ROTFLMFAO!

I don't hate Americans or Negroes. I do, however, hate trolls. So you and I have had our last conversation. The crazy Russian and the wacky Chinese guy in my ignore list need company. Now there's a trio of foreign trash in there.

[myata]

Personally, I wish there was a way to harvest these seals alive, like by the tens of thousands, and then transport them to be released off the US and European coasts. Let them deciminate the fisheries there and we'll see how long before they start hunting them.

Yes and it means that before humans landed in NA there was no fish here - because those nasty seals would have decimated it uncontrolled and unregulated.

No, wasn't it the other way around? Go figure (all the execuses for short-sightedness, uncontrollable greed and dismal failure to adapt to changing environment).

[Argus]

Yes and it means that before humans landed in NA there was no fish here - because those nasty seals would have decimated it uncontrolled and unregulated.

Before humans began to fish here the seals and fish kept each other in balance. However, after we landed and began to take a lot of fish, and because the Europeans took a LOT of fish and continue to do so, the huge cod stocks have diminished to the point of being endangered. Many other species have also been hugely diminished. So allowing the seal population to baloon and take even more is not good for anyone.

And btw, the Europeans have strongly resisted any and all appeals to reason in terms of restricting fishing for decades. Fish aren't pretty so they don't mind hunting them to the point of extinction.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't hate Americans or Negroes. I do, however, hate trolls. So you and I have had our last conversation. The crazy Russian and the wacky Chinese guy in my ignore list need company. Now there's a trio of foreign trash in there.

Yay! Another one bites the dust. This one hates Americans, Negroes, and Immigrants! That's why he is the perfect federal employee. LOL! You won't see this so don't bother to get in the last word.

[Molly]

Before humans began to fish here the seals and fish kept each other in balance. However, after we landed and began to take a lot of fish, and because the Europeans took a LOT of fish and continue to do so, the huge cod stocks have diminished to the point of being endangered. Many other species have also been hugely diminished. So allowing the seal population to baloon and take even more is not good for anyone.

And btw, the Europeans have strongly resisted any and all appeals to reason in terms of restricting fishing for decades. Fish aren't pretty so they don't mind hunting them to the point of extinction.

I'm standing, cheering.

100% agreement on this one, Argus.

[GostHacked]

Yet at our grocerie stores we can buy veal, spring lamb and young turkeys. No different

You can also buy eggs, which never even got the chance to be a chick, let alone a chicken.