UPDATE detainees

[Topaz]

The MP's want the Speaker to give them til Friday for the solution about the documents but I'm thinking the Tories don't really care and if there is info. that proves they knew about the torturing, they either will call an election or try to hide the documents. We know there was torturing going on because they admitted themselves of changes they had to make several times about the turning over of the prisoners. As far as how to tell the public, all they have to say i,s there is proof of torturing and the government covered it up OR there's no proof of torturing. http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2010/05/orders-of-the-day-tick-tick-tick.html

[eyeball]

I doubt if the Liberals are really all that eager to push this issue to much farther after all, they'll be wanting to wield the same sort of power over Parliament themselves one day.

Such is the nature of our silly government's push-me pull-me do si do dance towards mutually assured dictatorship.

Oh well, it's not like we don't deserve it.

[capricorn]

The NDP is drafting a motion of contempt. It's come to a point I think the best outcome would be an election. This session of Parliament has become a circus and needs to die.

[waldo]

The NDP is drafting a motion of contempt. It's come to a point I think the best outcome would be an election. This session of Parliament has become a circus and needs to die.

Harper already called one election on a trumped-up claim of dysfunctional government... is he going for a two-fer, or:

The only questionable thing left is why the Tories almost invoked a crisis over all of this, if at the end of the day, they're basically going to let the Committee see the documents anyways.

are they? Or does Harper's latest emphasis on 'legal obligations' lead toward the Conservative tossers tossing it off to the Supreme Court... besides, why let the fundamental distinction of courts not intruding upon Parliamentary inner workings get in the King's way... what's good for the King must be... will be... good for all!

Andrew Coyne: “Legal obligations”

But a clue to the Prime Minister’s state of mind can be found in his repeated invocation of the government’s “legal obligations.” Responding to questions in the House Wednesday, Harper said, variously:

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, we look forward to both complying with your ruling and with the legal obligations that have been established by statutes passed by this Parliament

The government has certain obligations that are established under statutes passed by this Parliament. We obviously want to proceed in a way that will respect both of those things, and of course we will be open to any reasonable suggestions to achieve those two objectives

You have delivered a decision. Obviously, the government seeks to respect that decision. At the same time, it seeks to respect its obligations established by statute and passed by this Parliament

The government seeks at all times to respect all of its obligations. To the extent that some of those obligations may be in conflict, there are reasonable ways to accommodate that and we are open to reasonable suggestions in that regard

The government cannot break the law, it cannot order public servants to break the law, nor can it do anything that would unnecessarily jeopardize the safety of Canadian troops

[Shady]

Harper already called one election on a trumped-up claim of dysfunctional government

Complete nonsense. The dysfunctional opposition illustrated their vast dysfunction during their attempted coalition government coup.

[g_bambino]

Complete nonsense. The dysfunctional opposition illustrated their vast dysfunction during their attempted coalition government coup.

Perhaps your need to blurt out "coup!" at any opportunity caused you to miss the fact that the opposition's threat to revoke confidence in Harper occurred in December 2008, after the election called in October that year.

[waldo]

Harper already called one election on a trumped-up claim of dysfunctional government... is he going for a two-fer

Complete nonsense. The dysfunctional opposition illustrated their vast dysfunction during their attempted coalition government coup.

whaaa! Am I not worthy of a raving Shady 'liar' claim?

lil' buddy... check your event timeline: first came the trumped-up Harper claim that Parliament was dysfunctional... then the election... then the 'coalition if necessary, but not necessarily the coalition'

and don't make me link to the Harper Conservative dysfunctional playbook on how to disrupt Parliamentary committees... don't make me do that, Shady.

Harper threatens election to end 'dysfunction'

[g_bambino]

The MP's want the Speaker to give them til Friday for the solution about the documents...

I don't see how the Speaker's permission is necessary; it's up to the majority of the House to decide whether or not to allow the committee more time or vote now on finding a minister or ministers in contempt of parliament. Milliken gave the ministers of the Crown a deadline so that they couldn't continue thumbing their collective nose at the opposition, in spite of the latter's demands; but, if the opposition wants to let cabinet have more time, they're free to do so.

[wyly]

The MP's want the Speaker to give them til Friday for the solution about the documents but I'm thinking the Tories don't really care and if there is info. that proves they knew about the torturing, they either will call an election or try to hide the documents. We know there was torturing going on because they admitted themselves of changes they had to make several times about the turning over of the prisoners. As far as how to tell the public, all they have to say i,s there is proof of torturing and the government covered it up OR there's no proof of torturing. http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2010/05/orders-of-the-day-tick-tick-tick.html

apparently nearly everyone knew.. Afghan authorities routinely beat people "in the street and elsewhere" and most Canadian soldiers knew about it, a military board of inquiry has found.

the generals have lied and so has the government...

Edited May 11, 2010 by wyly

[Shady]

lil' buddy... check your event timeline: first came the trumped-up Harper claim that Parliament was dysfunctional... then the election... then the 'coalition if necessary, but not necessarily the coalition'

You're making my point. Harper insisted the opposition was dysfunctional. And after the election, they proved him right. I won't argue that the results of the election corrected the oppositions dysfunction. Unfortunately they remained as dysfunctional as ever. Perhaps even more dysfunctional. And Iggy is about as incompentent and dysfunctional as a party leader can be.

[Topaz]

You're making my point. Harper insisted the opposition was dysfunctional. And after the election, they proved him right. I won't argue that the results of the election corrected the oppositions dysfunction. Unfortunately they remained as dysfunctional as ever. Perhaps even more dysfunctional. And Iggy is about as incompentent and dysfunctional as a party leader can be.

MY view is Parliament has been more dysfunctional since Harper because the PM. He's the first to throw personal attacks which leads others in the Toriy party to join in the fun! Get rid of Harper and we may has a half-as* Parliament.

[msdogfood]

I doubt if the Liberals are really all that eager to push this issue to much farther after all, they'll be wanting to wield the same sort of power over Parliament themselves one day.

Such is the nature of our silly government's push-me pull-me do si do dance towards mutually assured dictatorship.

Oh well, it's not like we don't deserve it.

Remember its up to the speaker The PMO is NOT complying with his decision.

He will say to the PMO/CPC you can NOT STAND as the govermit!!.

[waldo]

Harper already called one election on a trumped-up claim of dysfunctional government... is he going for a two-fer

Complete nonsense. The dysfunctional opposition illustrated their vast dysfunction during their attempted coalition government coup.

whaaa! Am I not worthy of a raving Shady 'liar' claim?

lil' buddy... check your event timeline: first came the trumped-up Harper claim that Parliament was dysfunctional... then the election... then the 'coalition if necessary, but not necessarily the coalition'

and don't make me link to the Harper Conservative dysfunctional playbook on how to disrupt Parliamentary committees... don't make me do that, Shady.

Harper threatens election to end 'dysfunction'

You're making my point. Harper insisted the opposition was dysfunctional. And after the election, they proved him right. I won't argue that the results of the election corrected the oppositions dysfunction. Unfortunately they remained as dysfunctional as ever. Perhaps even more dysfunctional. And Iggy is about as incompentent and dysfunctional as a party leader can be.

why, yes Shady... Harper insistence is the measure of dysfunction... I asked you not to make me reference the Harper Conservative Dysfunctional Playbook... yes, the Conservative playbook on how to disrupt Parliamentary committees - while insisting (Harper insisting... hey, Shady) that Parliament was dysfunctional... or as you claim, Shady... that, "the Opposition was dysfunctional". You're a riot Shady, keep on, keeping on!

[eyeball]

Remember its up to the speaker The PMO is NOT complying with his decision.

He will say to the PMO/CPC you can NOT STAND as the govermit!!.

I bet the speaker will cave to a majority of Liberals and Conservatives to not press the issue, the way he caves when hauled up to his chair following an election. Like it was just another joke in other words.

Isn't this the point of this whole charade, to prove that Parliament after all is supreme?

The irony of seeing Parliament literally f^*k itself should be enough to gag a maggot but I expect if this transpires there will still be no end to the number of blowflies defending it's privilege to do so.

[punked]

Liberals cave end of story.

[g_bambino]

Remember its up to the speaker... He will say to the PMO/CPC you can NOT STAND as the govermit!!.

No, he won't.

[Topaz]

What I've heard on TV is none of the parties want an election except the Tories which they think they could get a majority...keep dreaming! There are members up for their 'golden pension' marking their time in the Commons. On the other hand, Harper is Taurus the Bull, very stubborn, wanting his own way etc. and since its a Liberal Speaker, he doesn't have to listen to him, instead let an election be called and blame it on the opposition parties because after all, the Tories are always right and keep their promises. Wrong. They promised to take the GST off gasoline, didn't do it, promised to take the taxes off diesel fuel, didn't do it. Their elections promises are any good any more and most women won't be supporting them.

[ToadBrother]

Remember its up to the speaker The PMO is NOT complying with his decision.

He will say to the PMO/CPC you can NOT STAND as the govermit!!.

Where do you get bizarre ideas like that? The Speaker isn't a king, he has no power to dismiss a government. The only thing he can do in this case is permit or deny a motion finding the Government in contempt. It is up to the Government and Parliament do decide what to do after that point. If the Government decides the motion is a confidence motion, then we'll have an election.

It's pretty obvious that no one actually wants an election right now. What they're wrangling over is how precisely actual evidence of wrongdoing on the Government's part gets released. A sticky issue as it was bound to be.

Edited May 12, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Keepitsimple]

Let's not forget that the Speaker said that the opposition parties could also be cited for contempt if they were being unreasonable.

[waldo]

Let's not forget that the Speaker said that the opposition parties could also be cited for contempt if they were being unreasonable.

well, of course! Conservatives are fighting to ensure that any documents that actually draw negatively upon Conservative actions/persons will not be allowed to be made public... that is to say, the obligation of Opposition parliamentarians to hold the Harper Conservative government to account, absolutely must be trumped by presumptive Conservative concerns for, "secrets of the mission". How convenient!

[Sir Bandelot]

It's pretty obvious that no one actually wants an election right now.

Except perhaps the Canadian public.

[M.Dancer]

well, of course! Conservatives are fighting to ensure that any documents that actually draw negatively upon Conservative actions/persons will not be allowed to be made public... that is to say, the obligation of Opposition parliamentarians to hold the Harper Conservative government to account, absolutely must be trumped by presumptive Conservative concerns for, "secrets of the mission". How convenient!

And that pertains to the speaker how?

[ToadBrother]

Except perhaps the Canadian public.

Do they? I haven't seen any evidence that Canadians want an election either. In fact, the general consensus seems to be the opposite, that whoever drives Canada to another election less than two years after the last one could very well be punished.

[ToadBrother]

Let's not forget that the Speaker said that the opposition parties could also be cited for contempt if they were being unreasonable.

Which was a very nice way to be balanced, but ultimately Parliament trumps the Government, and Parliament itself, dominated by those very Opposition members, outweighs the Executive. The negotations are a nod to the Speaker's reference to a long-standing tradition of the Government and the Opposition working together on these issues.

I mean, what precisely is the point of reviewing documents if the Opposition discovers malfeasance or incompetence in the Government, but can't say anything?

But it's nice to know the most slavish Tory supporters are admitting that the Speaker was right.

[Sir Bandelot]

Do they? I haven't seen any evidence that Canadians want an election either. In fact, the general consensus seems to be the opposite, that whoever drives Canada to another election less than two years after the last one could very well be punished.

Yeah I know. Just wishful thinking. In my view none of these knobs deserve to be in government, so I guess an election would be pointless.