Mosque going up in NYC building

[msj]

But your 'comparison' isn't a relevant comparison at all. No one finds is surprising or is objecting to NYC having mosques. People who are objecting to this mosque are objecting because of the property it's being built on for the reasons stated over and over again.

They are not objecting to NYC having Mosques.

I never stated that my comparison was perfect. It was simply a specific response to a specific post.

I'm not terribly surprised that you would focus on this one aspect when we are talking about the bigoted attitude that, oh no, America is a free country and is unable to prevent Islamic extremists from going to a mosque near 9/11 soil so they must keep all Muslims from 9/11 soil! (well, at least not allow them to officially pray on 9/11 soil).

The analogies from the Paul Krugman blog post would be a better focus rather than this non-sequitur.

But that would require some clear understanding of anti-semitic views and history and the ability to truly comprehend an analogy and how they are useful in an argument even if they do not present exactly the same facts as the case that is being argued - an ability not everyone is capable of, evidently.

So, right back atcha.

[DogOnPorch]

Is that in the Muslim religion women and men worship in separate rooms? With separate genders leading the prays. I mean honestly even in the CANADIAN TV SHOW Little Mosque they address this. This is how they worship women in one room men in the other.

Like it or not all religions are sexist or the main ones at least so don't even try that.

You're being sexist. Tell your wife to go watch TV in the special 'women's room'. How does that work out for her? Or perhaps you're single and women are a bit of an abstract to you to begin with.

BTW: using the all religions are sexist so Islam can be extra-sexist ploy doesn't work on an atheist. Your religion sucks as well. I recommend reading a bit on cosmology (and such) instead if you want a more accurate version of how we got here.

[DogOnPorch]

What are you talking about? Women pray in this Mosque they do it in a separate room or service. They however don't pray with the men for a number of reasons that are built into their religion. Only an idiot would think a religion would not let women prey that makes all members do it 5 times a day.

I don't support the segregation of women which is why the Catholics, Mormons, and Jews are crazy as well however they would be allowed to build a church with out you blinking an eye. How come that is ok?

You support segregation of the sexes and actively defend its practice.

Edited August 7, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

[punked]

You're being sexist. Tell your wife to go watch TV in the special 'women's room'. How does that work out for her? Or perhaps you're single and women are a bit of an abstract to you to begin with.

BTW: using the all religions are sexist so Islam can be extra-sexist ploy doesn't work on an atheist. Your religion sucks as well. I recommend reading a bit on cosmology (and such) instead if you want a more accurate version of how we got here.

What are you talking about again?!?!? No one tells the women to worship in a separate room in the Muslim faith that it has been for you know 1500 years. Might interest you to know Islam was the FIRST religion to have women lead pray which they do in most Mosques something that does not happen in the Catholic, or most Orthodox Jewish religions AND THEY WERE DOING 1500 years ago. Now I suggest you talk to some Muslim women and ask them if they are more comfortable worshiping with women before you go screaming SEXISM!

[DogOnPorch]

What are you talking about again?!?!? No one tells the women to worship in a separate room in the Muslim faith that it has been for you know 1500 years. Might interest you to know Islam was the FIRST religion to have women lead pray which they do in most Mosques something that does not happen in the Catholic, or most Orthodox Jewish religions AND THEY WERE DOING 1500 years ago. Now I suggest you talk to some Muslim women and ask them if they are more comfortable worshiping with women before you go screaming SEXISM!

You're defending the segregation of men and women. You're not married, are you?

[punked]

Did you know there are religions which don't accept Gay men and refuse to marry them? Did you know there are religions which don't let Black people in? Yet if they wanted to build a church no one would care. You are grasping at straws.

[punked]

You're defending the segregation of men and women. You're not married, are you?

I am defending someones right to worship anyway they want to. It is called freedom of religion.

[DogOnPorch]

Did you know there are religions which don't accept Gay men and refuse to marry them? Did you know there are religions which don't let Black people in? Yet if they wanted to build a church no one would care. You are grasping at straws.

Again...I'm an atheist. I think your religion also sucks the Big Kahoona.

[DogOnPorch]

I am defending someones right to worship anyway they want to. It is called freedom of religion.

No...you're defending misogyny. Rules created by men to control the behaviour of women. Looks good on you, too, I might add.

[punked]

Again...I'm an atheist. I think your religion also sucks the Big Kahoona.

SO then you wouldn't want any place of worship build there because they don't believe what you believe? How tolerant of you.

[DogOnPorch]

SO then you wouldn't want any place of worship build there because they don't believe what you believe? How tolerant of you.

Atheism isn't a belief.

[punked]

No...you're defending misogyny. Rules created by men to control the behaviour of women. Looks good on you, too, I might add.

It is their religion not mine and I will not force them to change it because I am tolerant of their beliefs. Women however do have the right to worship and do it in that Mosque unlike the lie you told.

[Sir Bandelot]

I think Islam sucks. What does that tell you? It's iconoclastic, combative, intolerant and provocative....all at the same time.

Hmm, sounds kinda like you...

[punked]

Atheism isn't a belief.

Then what it is it? A thought? They don't think what you think so that group should not be allowed to worship?

[DogOnPorch]

It is their religion not mine and I will not force them to change it because I am tolerant of their beliefs. Women however do have the right to worship and do it in that Mosque unlike the lie you told.

Women are segregated completely in 2/3rds of the mosques in the USA. In the other third, they are forced into the back rows. In my city, the mosque is completely segregated. But you feel this is just fine...all things being equal n' all...like a good relativist that you are.

You're not married, are you? Can't answer that one? Too personal? I'm married. I just LOVE women. Can't get enough of them.

[DogOnPorch]

Then what it is it? A thought? They don't think what you think so that group should not be allowed to worship?

By definition, it would be 'lack of belief'. That is...there is NO mythical god out there who created you in his (?) image. We are creatures that evolved on a 1g planet and our bodies reflect this.

[punked]

Women are segregated completely in 2/3rds of the mosques in the USA. In the other third, they are forced into the back rows. In my city, the mosque is completely segregated. But you feel this is just fine...all things being equal n' all...like a good relativist that you are.

You're not married, are you? Can't answer that one? Too personal? I'm married. I just LOVE women. Can't get enough of them.

I don't think the state should go around arbitrarily deciding what religions they like and which they don't unlike you. Sorry might not like it, GUESS WHAT? Wont join their religion. Does that mean their religion should be forced to not exist? No.

[DogOnPorch]

Hmm, sounds kinda like you...

Non-answer...attempt at a joke.

[DogOnPorch]

I don't think the state should go around arbitrarily deciding what religions they like and which they don't unlike you. Sorry might not like it, GUESS WHAT? Wont join their religion. Does that mean their religion should be forced to not exist? No.

The state has already said that men and women are equal.

[DogOnPorch]

...and I'll just assume you're a typical bachelor...that is, at heart, a little afraid of women.

[punked]

The state has already said that men and women are equal.

I agree with that. Now they should go around with some thought police and weed all the religions who don't believe that and who have a problem with gays, AND those who have problems with race. This is your view right?

[Guest American Woman]

...I suggest you talk to some Muslim women and ask them if they are more comfortable worshiping with women before you go screaming SEXISM!

I've already posted links to articles quoting some Muslim women and how they feel about it. One mentions having received death threats because she's trying to change the practice, which too often means inferior accommodations for the women.

But keep defending it. Nice to know that you would accept/tolerate/defend anything, so long as it was a religious belief. You know, freedom of religion, and all.

I think "freedom of religion" means one is free to practice whatever religion they want, not that they are free to practice anything in the name of religion. But perhaps that's just me.

[DogOnPorch]

I agree with that. Now they should go around with some thought police and weed all the religions who don't believe that and who have a problem with gays, AND those who have problems with race. This is your view right?

I believe men and women are equal. I also support whole-heartedly gay rights. If religion has a problem with that it should be 'arrested' and put in 'jail', so to speak. That there are relativists like your self with a live-and-let-live attitude towards these rights being abused no longer surprises me. That you ALSO have minimal contact with women is also not a surprise.

[Guest American Woman]

I never stated that my comparison was perfect. It was simply a specific response to a specific post.

Your comparison isn't a comparison, not even an imperfect one. It fails in the point you were trying to make.

I'm not terribly surprised that you would focus on this one aspect when we are talking about the bigoted attitude that, oh no, America is a free country and is unable to prevent Islamic extremists from going to a mosque near 9/11 soil so they must keep all Muslims from 9/11 soil! (well, at least not allow them to officially pray on 9/11 soil).

And I'm not terribly surprised that you can't grasp what we're actually saying, which, *sigh* one again, *sigh* is not about "America preventing Islamic extremists from attending this mosque" nor "a mosque near 9/11 soil," which, quite frankly, I'm sure they've already been doing.

The analogies from the Paul Krugman blog post would be a better focus rather than this non-sequitur.

But that would require some clear understanding of anti-semitic views and history and the ability to truly comprehend an analogy and how they are useful in an argument even if they do not present exactly the same facts as the case that is being argued - an ability not everyone is capable of, evidently.

So, right back atcha.

No, all it would require is that you and all the other 'you're a bigot!' crowd respond to the actual issue and what we actually say/think instead of constantly making it about something else. You can begin by acknowledging that there are Muslims who disagree with this project being built on this property, also; that it's not a simple matter of "bigot!!!!!" the way y'all are persistently trying to present it as.