Happy 420

[maple_leafs182]

It's that time of the year again where stoners across the world gather in groups and protest marijuana prohibition.

Let the debate begin

Pros of legalization:

-Money is saved since they wouldn't have to enforce a law.

-Clears up the court system of non violent offenders.

-Creates a new industry in a struggling economy.

-It would take away funding from gangs.

-Personal liberties; would allow people to do what they wish to their own bodies.

Cons of legalization:

-none

I really don't see and pros to keeping it illegal.

[eyeball]

Cons of legalization:

-none

I really don't see and pros to keeping it illegal.

What about all the jobs the judicial industrial complex creates?

[maple_leafs182]

What about all the jobs the judicial industrial complex creates?

those are jobs we don't need, spend the money on more doctors or something useful.

I guess some lawyers will be mad too, they will have less clients.

Edited April 20, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[Sir Bandelot]

Was reading on CNN an article about how some kids were poisoned by mint flavoured tobacco candies. The kind people chew when they don't want to smoke cigarettes anymore. of course, they still can cause moth cancer. Right next to it there's a headline that says "Most in US don't want pot legalized".

The irony of this was not lost on me.

[bloodyminded]

Was reading on CNN an article about how some kids were poisoned by mint flavoured tobacco candies. The kind people chew when they don't want to smoke cigarettes anymore. of course, they still can cause moth cancer. Right next to it there's a headline that says "Most in US don't want pot legalized".

The irony of this was not lost on me.

I'm not a spell-check pedant, SB, and I assure you that I like your posts. But "moth cancer" is too priceless to ignore.

[Topaz]

Why do people want to do illegal drugs in the first place? Going back to the memories of the 60's ..to get high man! Its' first used as an escape from reality and its used because of the addiction. It does do harm to your body over time and yes even man-made legal drugs to the same, so why do, if you know its not healthy plus illegal?

[Sir Bandelot]

I'm not a spell-check pedant, SB, and I assure you that I like your posts. But "moth cancer" is too priceless to ignore.

Well, since I'm not JBG, I can afford to make mistakes...

;^)

[Sir Bandelot]

Why do people want to do illegal drugs in the first place? Going back to the memories of the 60's ..to get high man! Its' first used as an escape from reality and its used because of the addiction. It does do harm to your body over time and yes even man-made legal drugs to the same, so why do, if you know its not healthy plus illegal?

People have probably always used drugs, throughout history. Why? It's hard to answer. Different for everyone but people get addicted to pleasureful experiences, whether chemical or physical. Some seek to escape the misery of their daily existence, to forget about their problems. Some like to unwind after a hard week at work with a drink. Tobacco is one of the most destructive substances, yet it is legalized. So the principle of preventing self-harm is a bit confusing.

even if marijuana is a harmful substance, the question still remains, is incarceration the right approach to that or any of the drug problem. Or is incarceration even more harmful... plenty of people, doctors, politicians (as is evident in the Jaffer situation) are able to perform reasonably well in their jobs despite being drinkers, smokers or tokers. But once they've got the criminal record, it becomes a life sentence preventing them from holding a good job in the future, even if they never do drugs again. How is that justice

[eyeball]

Why do people want to do illegal drugs in the first place? Going back to the memories of the 60's ..to get high man! Its' first used as an escape from reality and its used because of the addiction. It does do harm to your body over time and yes even man-made legal drugs to the same, so why do, if you know its not healthy plus illegal?

No, I suspect in almost every single case it's first used to be cool. Good luck basing prohibition on that, but it's true.

For many its also a matter of simply wanting to recreationally alter their perception of reality not escape from it. You'd be better off asking why crows wait until the fruit on certain trees is fermented before eating it or why kids like to make themselves dizzy.

Edited April 20, 2010 by eyeball

[maple_leafs182]

I'm not ashamed to say I smoke pot nearly everyday.

I didn't want to smoke it to be cool, I never tried it once in high school, except on graduation, not because of peer pressure, but because I wanted to.

It helps me focus and relax.

Pot makes me more curious and its awesome for working out, I'm sure Arnold Swartzenager can back me up on that.

Pot doesn't kill and isn't addictive, and if people are going to argue health reasons, alcohol and tobacco are far more harmful to ones health.

Why isn't alcohol illegal in the states still. It created too much crime and didn't stop use. Same thing is happening now not only with pot but all drugs.

What about the argument the government shouldn't be controlling how its citizens live their lives.

[Moonbox]

I don't really have anything against pot being legalized. People who want to smoke it do regardless and it is barely policed (aside from large operations).

The only difference between it and booze or tabaccy is that it makes you stupid even in small doses and it's harder to tell when someone is high. Obvious problems arise from that but whatever.

[maple_leafs182]

I don't really have anything against pot being legalized. People who want to smoke it do regardless and it is barely policed (aside from large operations).

The only difference between it and booze or tabaccy is that it makes you stupid even in small doses and it's harder to tell when someone is high. Obvious problems arise from that but whatever.

What makes you think pot makes you stupider, on

University Of Saskatchewan Research Suggests Marijuana Analogue Stimulates Brain Cell Growth

A synthetic substance similar to ones found in marijuana stimulates cell growth in regions of the brain associated with anxiety and depression, pointing the way for new treatments for these diseases, according to University of Saskatchewan medical research published today in The Journal of Clinical Investigation.

more

Take that.

I've been drunk, it makes you stupid and you can't control really control yourself, pot doesn't do that. Two totally different drugs.

[Shwa]

Cons:

- the far right would freak right out man! Hashshashin

- the gateway drug theory

- cannabis might not be addictive, but it could be habit-forming and mimic the downside of addiction

- despite the study by the U of Sask, potheads continue to use the words, burn, burnt, cooked, wasted and wrecked. There is a reason for this. While a synthetic substance like something found in pot may stimulate cell growth, it is the other billion or so cells being burnt out that is the problem

- munchie attacks can lead to obesity and heart problems. Especially delicious, juicy double cheese burgers from Wendys at 2 AM

Pros:

- the sales for the snack industry would go through the roof

- Tangerine Dream would make a comeback

- the psychiatric industry would benefit due to the increased caseload of paranoia

-

[Wild Bill]

Why do people want to do illegal drugs in the first place? Going back to the memories of the 60's ..to get high man! Its' first used as an escape from reality and its used because of the addiction. It does do harm to your body over time and yes even man-made legal drugs to the same, so why do, if you know its not healthy plus illegal?

Why? I should think it obvious, Topaz. They don't BELIEVE that it's harmful! Especially young folks. When you're young you think you're superman and can handle anything.

To make it worse, marijuana ISN'T HARMFUL! At least, no more than alcohol and probably less. This is obvious to almost any young person who has ever tried it. Back in the 60's this seriously hurt the credibility of the "authorities". Movies like "Reefer Madness" were produced by adults to warn kids away from the evil weed. Unfortunately, those movies were so ridiculously over the top in their claims that college kids used to organize film showings as comedy nights!

Most folks that indulge in the odd snort of cocaine don't become slobbering addicts either.

The anti-drug movement has always tried to lump all illegal drugs into the same pot. The consequence has been that often young folks don't believe them about ANY drugs! Or at least, they think that even dangerous harder drugs like morphine or heroin are not as bad as the claims.

Youth has always been about rebellion. The anti-drug groups made themselves easy targets, by telling young folks to "Do as I say and believe me even though I'm full of it!" with drugs like marijuana.

The sad truth is that it doesn't really matter what drugs are legal or illegal. It's impossible to enforce Prohibition. You would need a police state that would make the old USSR look like a hippie commune. You would need a cop beside every single person in the country!

What's more, the drug laws don't really change the number of addicts. There is always a certain small percentage of people that have a personality that leads them to be addicted to SOMETHING! If it's not heroin it will be cocaine. If they can't get cocaine they will become alcoholics. Whatever you take away from them, they will find SOMETHING!

Meanwhile, everybody else is what's called a "recreational user". They can smoke pot or not, have a drink or not bother, snort a line of coke or just pass. They understand the dangers of harder drugs that cause physical addiction and feel no need to give them a try.

The idea that "If you take that toke you'll be hooked for life!" has been laughed at since "Reefer Madness", and rightly so.

It's human nature that if you want people to grant you credibility you have to mostly make sense. The anti-drug laws have never even come close. They just make logical people lose respect for them, to the point where they sometimes don't believe even the truth about some harder drugs!

People won't believe you just because you say so, Topaz.

Me, I hardly do anything anymore. Years ago, my drug of choice became expensive Scotch. When it costs a lot of money, it's not surprising you do a lot less!

Edited April 21, 2010 by Wild Bill

[Topaz]

When it comes to us humans, we always take the easy way. Curiosity gets us hooked on the substance and then we find its easier to give in than to fight the situation. Just look at the problems we DO have with booze and tobacco and the cost to the health care, even drinking too much coffee isn't good for your heart. I know that most people can't change the tinking of drug users and down the road these people will probably learn the hard way of abusing their minds and bodies but don't make it legal to make those problems worse.

[bloodyminded]

When it comes to us humans, we always take the easy way. Curiosity gets us hooked on the substance and then we find its easier to give in than to fight the situation. Just look at the problems we DO have with booze and tobacco and the cost to the health care, even drinking too much coffee isn't good for your heart. I know that most people can't change the tinking of drug users and down the road these people will probably learn the hard way of abusing their minds and bodies but don't make it legal to make those problems worse.

Well, I think different categories of drugs need to be looked at specifically; but in the case of marijuana use, the good folks of Amsterdam are not heavier marijuana users than are the good folks of San Francisco. So making it legal--or decriminalizing it--does not appear to make the problem worse.

Edited April 21, 2010 by bloodyminded

[DrGreenthumb]

I don't really have anything against pot being legalized. People who want to smoke it do regardless and it is barely policed (aside from large operations).

The only difference between it and booze or tabaccy is that it makes you stupid even in small doses and it's harder to tell when someone is high. Obvious problems arise from that but whatever.

Bullshit! Pot does NOT make one stupid. That is a truckload full of bull. The fact that it is hard to tell if someone is high goes to show that your claims are false. Alcohol makes one obviously stupid, and its very EASY to see the stupidity on its users even in small doses.

[Moonbox]

Sorry, let me clarify. I smoked pot in highschool & university. It didn't have any long term impact on me. It is much like alchohol. Alchohol is actually probably worse. The difference, in my mind at least, however, is that you can go to work or school stoned and a lot of the time people would never even notice. That's not to say you're still fully functional, but rather that you're not NOTICEABLY impaired.

The other phenomenon that I see as a key difference is how chronic pot can be for a lot of people. Anyone who drinks all day is going to be f'd all day and people will see it and smell it on them. You could be high for the better part of the day every day and still function okay. Does this make any sense? My experience is that pot is just a lot more insidious.

Like I said before though, just legalize it already. I don't really care either way. Holland seems to be doing alright. The world didn't collapse around it.

[Dave_ON]

It never ceases to amaze me how we continual refuse to learn from history. Prohibition has a long history of ineffectiveness, we went through this with alcohol this shouldn’t be news to us. Yet strangely we’re surprised at how difficult it is to regulate, and how driving it underground only serves to fuel an underground, and consequently untaxed economy.

There is a local radio station in London that created a suggested theme for the city “You’re never more than a 15 minute walk away from a grow op when you live in London”. This was based on a map of the city that was superimposed with RCMP grow op busts pinned on it. I’m sure many of the larger cities across Canada would show a similar scenario. So why are we wasting police resources busting grow ops that has yet to show any real progress in stemming the demand or the supply? It’s a tax payload waiting to be collected. Human nature dictates it will do what it wants to do regardless of the legality of it and there will always be some entrepreneur out there willing to fill the demand. It is beyond me why we insist on taxing things like income when there is far more money to be made by taxing people's vices. However, I digress. As far as I see it whether a substance is harmful or not is immaterial and should not factor into the legality of it. Tobacco, Alcohol, even caffeine is all deleterious in one way or another, why should Pot be regarded any differently?

[wyly]

Holland seems to be doing alright. The world didn't collapse around it.

once you've been to Amsterdam and Netherlands you wonder what all the fuss was about concerning pot, beer is still the preferred drug of choice...

[Muddy]

I'm not ashamed to say I smoke pot nearly everyday.

I didn't want to smoke it to be cool, I never tried it once in high school, except on graduation, not because of peer pressure, but because I wanted to.

It helps me focus and relax.

Pot makes me more curious and its awesome for working out, I'm sure Arnold Swartzenager can back me up on that.

Pot doesn't kill and isn't addictive, and if people are going to argue health reasons, alcohol and tobacco are far more harmful to ones health.

Why isn't alcohol illegal in the states still. It created too much crime and didn't stop use. Same thing is happening now not only with pot but all drugs.

What about the argument the government shouldn't be controlling how its citizens live their lives.

Do you drive under the weeds influence. If not how do you get to the gym to work out with the Arnold crowd?

[wyly]

It never ceases to amaze me how we continual refuse to learn from history. Prohibition has a long history of ineffectiveness, we went through this with alcohol this shouldn’t be news to us. Yet strangely we’re surprised at how difficult it is to regulate, and how driving it underground only serves to fuel an underground, and consequently untaxed economy.

There is a local radio station in London that created a suggested theme for the city “You’re never more than a 15 minute walk away from a grow op when you live in London”. This was based on a map of the city that was superimposed with RCMP grow op busts pinned on it. I’m sure many of the larger cities across Canada would show a similar scenario. So why are we wasting police resources busting grow ops that has yet to show any real progress in stemming the demand or the supply? It’s a tax payload waiting to be collected. Human nature dictates it will do what it wants to do regardless of the legality of it and there will always be some entrepreneur out there willing to fill the demand. It is beyond me why we insist on taxing things like income when there is far more money to be made by taxing people's vices. However, I digress. As far as I see it whether a substance is harmful or not is immaterial and should not factor into the legality of it. Tobacco, Alcohol, even caffeine is all deleterious in one way or another, why should Pot be regarded any differently?

if people could grow there own just as we are allowed to make our own wine and beer how would you tax it?...

the benefit I see is it would destroy the gang culture and their grow ops and save the taxpayers many millions in enforcement and prison expenses...

[Muddy]

My problem with legalization is the blow it in my face crowd.Even now while it is still against the law I have a neighbour and his friends who inflicts it upon me and mine as it wafts over my hedge. What will it be like after it is not against the law? I tried back in the sixties once and I preferred a cold beer. I still can`t figure out what is wrong with reality!

[Alta4ever]

Bullshit! Pot does NOT make one stupid.

So I take it in your case something else is the cause.

[maple_leafs182]

My problem with legalization is the blow it in my face crowd.Even now while it is still against the law I have a neighbour and his friends who inflicts it upon me and mine as it wafts over my hedge. What will it be like after it is not against the law? I tried back in the sixties once and I preferred a cold beer. I still can`t figure out what is wrong with reality!

that's the problem, you only tried it once. lol, I'm not encouraging you to go do it more or anything...

When people argue the health reason, it is a choice between love and fear. Not to mention alcohol kills more then all the illegal drugs combined.

When it comes to drugs all you can do is educate people on the dangers of drugs. If they understand the dangers and still wish to use them, let them use them.

Do you drive under the weeds influence. If not how do you get to the gym to work out with the Arnold crowd?

I work out at home...

Have I ever been a little high and drove, yes.

I haven't gotten a speeding ticket let alone in accident.

Pot doesn't make me delusional or lose control of myself, it just relaxes me.

It also make me question authority, maybe that is why the government doesn't want it legalized.