Conservative Rod Bruinooge Abortion Bill

[M.Dancer]

I am reminded of a woman I knew about 15 years or so ago. She was a rising fashion designer with a well known Canadian clothing retailer who marketed their own line (they still exist).

She was pregnant with her second child and told her boss that she was pregnant. She was told that she should consider an abortion because having a child at this point in her career was not a good idea.

She worked till she was due, was given less and less challenging assignments and when her maternity ended, while her job was still there, she got the message that her career with this firm was over, a mother of two did not reflect the hip urban club image that the store was known for.

She eventually left, started her own line of high end blue jeans (which still exists today)and struggled for years to be successful.

I realize this anecdote does in no way illustrate the intention of the Private members bill....but it does serve to illustrate the pressures that are put on women to abort if in someway, having a child is deemed inconvenient.

[Molly]

Stuff like that is why folks like me are big on 'How many kids do you have? Are you married?' being inappropriate questions in a job interview... and happy that maternity leave can be divided by a couple, to further accommodate parents, and ever-so-slightly diffuse the stupid sexism that forces women, but rarely men, into a choice between having a family and having a career.

It's 'having a child' or even 'potentially having a child' that women are punished for. There is no great difference in effect if there is complete follow-through, from pressure to (be a man in the first place, to) eschew a relationship if you happen to be female, to never become pregnant, or to abort if it happens...

That's just basic sexism, and it's common as grass.

[myata]

It does illustrate the view that people simply cannot be allowed to have full control of their personal lives and choices, and need that gentle guiding hand by otherwise "small" government.

[Shady]

That's pretty darned amusing.

Why do you find the protection of pregnant women from physical/mental/financial abuse so amusing?

Overall, I don't like this bill. It's too ambiguous. However, it doesn't take away from the fact that Canada is woefully in need of some serious abortion legislation.

[Molly]

Why do you find the protection of pregnant women from physical/mental/financial abuse so amusing?

'Shady' as in 'dishonest'?

'Shady' as in 'dim'?

You might try stepping into the light for a moment and addressing what I said, instead chucking strawmen around willy-nilly. They're a flipping fire hazard!

[wyly]

"A person coerces an abortion if he or she knows of or suspects the pregnancy of a female person and engages, or conspires with another to engage in, conduct that is intentionally and purposely aimed at directing the female person who has not chosen to have an abortion to have an abortion, including but not limited to the following conduct:

(a) committing, attempting to commit, or threatening to commit physical harm to the female person, the child or another person;

( committing, attempting to commit or threatening to commit any act prohibited by any provincial or federal law;

© denying or removing, or making a threat to deny or remove, financial support or housing from a person who is financially dependent on the person engaging in the conduct; and

(d) attempting to compel by pressure or intimidation including argumentative and rancorous badgering or importunity;"

A is and B are redundant (A is double-redundant, since it's also fully coverd by .... C is a refusal to be a party to a pregnancy (pay expenses or provide housing), and D is arguing about it- really nothing more than openly expressing disapproval.

Functionally, this one would criminalize many, many more parents than signifigant others. That's pretty darned amusing.

I guess my wife will be criminal under-C...she already told one daughter that if she gets pregnant she'll have to move in with her boyfriends parents, we have no room for a baby nor the cash for the extra expense...now if the Federal government will buy us a bigger home, pay for a nanny while she finishes her education and provides the extra cash to cover the baby expenses we can reconsider.

[Muddy]

Political dishonesty is trying to say a party is something other than the sum of its parts, (or that its platform rhetoric means more than its actions). If he's just one MP with an agenda, and the CPC disapproves of that agenda, then why isn't he sitting as an independent instead of as a Conservative in good standing?

Conservatives (and all other parties) toss the people whose agendas they disapprove. They haven't tossed this doofus.

You may have a point there. The NDP would not allow a sitting MP to seek reelection under the NDP banner because she disagreed with same sex marriage.

In any room of people,thank goodness, you will have a diverse opinions on social issues. I know first hand that the CP has no intentions of agreeing with this individual. Myself and other tried to get clarification from the CP about just partial birth abortion. All to no avail.I say again the CP has no intentions of supporting this private members bill. In fact more Liberals may support his bill than the Conservatives.

[Dave_ON]

Stuff like that is why folks like me are big on 'How many kids do you have? Are you married?' being inappropriate questions in a job interview... and happy that maternity leave can be divided by a couple, to further accommodate parents, and ever-so-slightly diffuse the stupid sexism that forces women, but rarely men, into a choice between having a family and having a career.

It's 'having a child' or even 'potentially having a child' that women are punished for. There is no great difference in effect if there is complete follow-through, from pressure to (be a man in the first place, to) eschew a relationship if you happen to be female, to never become pregnant, or to abort if it happens...

That's just basic sexism, and it's common as grass.

I run into this kind of thing in my line of work all the time. I work for a software company in implementation management. We travel roughtly 26 weeks a year, single men under 35 dominate the field. We only have two women in the department both are over 45. It was a similar situation in the company I worked for previously. Women definitely have the "potential pregnancy" handicap working against them.

[Shady]

instead chucking strawmen around willy-nilly

You mean like these?

Are we soon to see dictionaries redacted, a smeary black blot left where that word used to be?

Bruinooges goal is to recriminalize abortion

this one would criminalize many, many more parents than signifigant others

The fact is that we need some serious abortion legislation in this country. In fact, when polled, a majority agree. Especially when related to partial birth abortion and/or late term abortions. That's the way society is heading. And you people that are against it better start getting used to it.

[Molly]

The fact is that we need some serious abortion legislation in this country. In fact, when polled, a majority agree. Especially when related to partial birth abortion and/or late term abortions. That's the way society is heading. And you people that are against it better start getting used to it.

Oh, bollucks! No one, not even Conservative pseudo-renegades, will touch late-term abortions with a twenty-foot pole. Late termers, particularly 'partial-birth' folks (a totally meaningless, anti-choice, made-up term, by the way) are exactly the people who want not to abort, but are living the kind of nightmare that forces them to-- the precise people who no one with a whisper of sanity would argue with, ever. Giving those people an even harder time than they are already facing would create a public relations firestorm that would fry... your... hair.

[scribblet]

It is a made up term for a medical procedure which doesn't exist,by anti-choice strategists in the U.S. who were hoping to ban late term abortions.

The only thing close is a procedure called a D & X which involves pulling the fetus from the womb, except for the head, but is used only if the fetus is severely malformed and/or the woman's life is in danger. It also very, rare.

Bruinooge is the head of a multi-party pro-life committee, there are Liberals on that committee too but no one seems to have a complete list as it appears to be a secret. Therefore, the CPC has to take the heat for this one.

[msdogfood]

very true!!

[myata]

True. Let's remember that Liberal party has no official position on the issue. What would it take for our leading (ostensibly) progressive party to state clearly that it's a personal choice in which state has no business, just like in the "bedrooms of the nation"?

And so, we have this bizzare situation where our leading (again, ostensibly) progressive party plays games around the issue, while the party advocating small government (other than in the matters of freedoms and personal choices) attempts to pull in some / any sort of anker notions to start restricting it.

Or is it another sign of the stalemate we've been seeing in the federal politics for awhile now and that will likely exist till we finally find will and courage to kick the behemoth duo's monopoly on power?

[Molly]

Read actions, Myata. Do you suppose that if Bruinooge wanted to cross the floor, he'd be accepted by any of the other parties?

The stealth of the 'pro-life' caucus says it all... They won't identify themselves because they'd be steered toward the door from that moment on.

[scribblet]

Does anyone know if this committee is approved by the gov't. and why are they allowed to keep it a secret. This bill is not approved of by the CPC or part of it's policy, yet we are led to believe it is a Tory bill. It's not, it's a private member's bill but I'd like to read more about this committee. Does anyone have any info on it?

[Born Free]

Does anyone know if this committee is approved by the gov't. and why are they allowed to keep it a secret. This bill is not approved of by the CPC or part of it's policy, yet we are led to believe it is a Tory bill. It's not, it's a private member's bill but I'd like to read more about this committee. Does anyone have any info on it?

Better ask Bruinooge .... he wouldn't say how many MPs are formally part of the pro-life caucus, but said there are supporters from every party.

THE STORY

[Shady]

Oh, bollucks! No one, not even Conservative pseudo-renegades, will touch late-term abortions with a twenty-foot pole. Late termers, particularly 'partial-birth' folks (a totally meaningless, anti-choice, made-up term, by the way) are exactly the people who want not to abort, but are living the kind of nightmare that forces them to-- the precise people who no one with a whisper of sanity would argue with, ever. Giving those people an even harder time than they are already facing would create a public relations firestorm that would fry... your... hair.

Facts are stubborn things.

Conversely, 42 per cent of respondents would allow the procedure only under certain circumstances

Link

And the trend over the last couple of decades is in favour of the pro-life side of the debate. Mark my words, partial birth abortion, and late term abortion will be legislated. Because in a short period of time, the majority of Canadians will demand it.

[scribblet]

"partial birth abortion" does not exist, the D & X procedure is not performed in Canada unless the life of the mother is at stake, even at that, I don't think it is done here at all. Late term abortions are very hard to get too in Canada, if at all. Why would anyone take the right to life away from a mother who might have other children to care for, and want to go on living?

A life and death medical decision is between the woman and her doctor !!!

[punked]

Don't we already have a law, that stops people from threating others to do things they don't want? Why do we need one specifically about Abortion? Oh right cause it gets us one step closer to taking away rights of females over their body. No thanks. Bet enough Liberals support it though. What we need is less Liberals more NDPers to stop the Cons.

[myata]

Read actions, Myata. Do you suppose that if Bruinooge wanted to cross the floor, he'd be accepted by any of the other parties?

Actually, with the level of "pragmatism" Iggy has been showing us, I can't bet that he wouldn't.

The stealth of the 'pro-life' caucus says it all... They won't identify themselves because they'd be steered toward the door from that moment on.

"Stealth" is the big part of the problem in this system. In the 1.5 party democracy we have in this country, not all issues appear to be "convenient" to be brought out in public.