More Liberal Tolerance At University of Ottawa

[Bonam]

If we did, would we see a disproportionate tendency by white men in north america to violently sexually abuse children? A scan of the newspapers headlines suggests yes. But what would this teach us about white men?

That some of them are Catholic priests? ;p

[jbg]

It's not suprising that these folks didn't want Ann Coulter and especially Ezra Levant (Jewish) speaking over at U of O.

I don't believe that Ezra Levant is Jewish. At least I hope not.

While I agree with him on many issues, I've met him and don't like him. He's an arrogant, obnoxious, snobbish putz.

[jbg]

They don't blow people up at random?

I was at a Holocaust Remembrance service tonight. Any thoughts on how many attacks on German or Polish interests by Jews followed the service?

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 06 April 2010 - 07:32 PM, said: And trying to make it into something it's not is nothing more than dishonesty.

The problem is that in France (and Montreal) in many instances police are refusing to protect Jews from mob violence. Netanyahu's attempted speech at Concordia was "Exhibit A". Obviously, though, this is at Carleton, not at U of O.

It is a problem if police are refusing to protect Jews from mob violence in France and Montreal. But again, that has nothing to do with this.

Furthermore, it didn't happen "at" Carleton, either. It allegedly happened on a walk home from a bar, and "allegedly" is a key word here. And no one "tolerated it," so the claim that it was tolerated by any university and/or the left is not only incorrect, but an attempt to smear the university and the left, at best.

Edited April 10, 2010 by American Woman

[Argus]

If we did, would we see a disproportionate tendency by white men in north america to violently sexually abuse children? A scan of the newspapers headlines suggests yes. But what would this teach us about white men?

I think if the statistics showed that white men were disproportionately doing anything bad the Left would pour half the national budget into statistical analysis and endless papers examining and decrying white cultural values and prejudices.

That the Left has so strongly resisted the collection of crime statistics based on race is pretty clear evidence they know what those statistics would say. Certainly we've had hints here and there from police and media - instantly decried by the Left - not for inaccuracy but for daring to let such numbers go public, or even collecting them.

[Born Free]

That the Left has so strongly resisted the collection of crime statistics based on race is pretty clear evidence they know what those statistics would say..

Note that the Conservative gang doesnt have a plan nor have they ever had a plan to change that either. This is old old stuff. Canada stopped gathering crime stats by race eons ago.

[dizzy]

I think if the statistics showed that white men were disproportionately doing anything bad the Left would pour half the national budget into statistical analysis and endless papers examining and decrying white cultural values and prejudices.

That the Left has so strongly resisted the collection of crime statistics based on race is pretty clear evidence they know what those statistics would say. Certainly we've had hints here and there from police and media - instantly decried by the Left - not for inaccuracy but for daring to let such numbers go public, or even collecting them.

Let's see... paul bernardo, charles carl roberts, jeffrey dahmer, a considerable minority of priests with the roman catholic church, here are a couple more:

http://crime.about.com/od/history/tp/Child-Killers.htm

If we tack on serial attacks on women we get robert pickton, russell williams, marc lepine, etc, etc.

image google child molestors. Oh wait, I did it for you:

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TJM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&resnum=0&q=child+molesters&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=D9LAS87sHoT68AbZ9sTzCA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQsAQwAw

see something common about those faces?

I think we should return to race-based crime statistics and, based on the outcome, limit white male access to places like public parks, school zones and malls. Don't you agree?

[Muddy]

Let's see... paul bernardo, charles carl roberts, jeffrey dahmer, a considerable minority of priests with the roman catholic church, here are a couple more:

http://crime.about.com/od/history/tp/Child-Killers.htm

If we tack on serial attacks on women we get robert pickton, russell williams, marc lepine, etc, etc.

image google child molestors. Oh wait, I did it for you:

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TJM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&resnum=0&q=child+molesters&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=D9LAS87sHoT68AbZ9sTzCA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCkQsAQwAw

see something common about those faces?

I think we should return to race-based crime statistics and, based on the outcome, limit white male access to places like public parks, school zones and malls. Don't you agree?

I am all for profiling and keeping stats by race and religion. We would problably find that orientals have a higher IQ . That the majority of shootings in Toronto are by Blacks on Blacks with unregistered guns. That Terrorism is almost a 100% Islamic. That Jewish,Hindu and Sihks people are very good at business and hard work. That midgets are shorter than most of society. That females bear children.That white people continue to apologize for past sins or percieved sins, to everybody else.That being a Father is not just screwing some tart and knocking her up.I am all for stats and profiling.Lets get on with it!

[Argus]

I think we should return to race-based crime statistics and, based on the outcome, limit white male access to places like public parks, school zones and malls. Don't you agree?

I think that if we return to race-based crime statistics the Left know full well they would show, as they do in the US and other jurisdictions, a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crime originating in the visible minority community, especially among immigrants.

[Born Free]

I think that if we return to race-based crime statistics the Left know full well they would show, as they do in the US and other jurisdictions, a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crime originating in the visible minority community, especially among immigrants.

This sounds like yet another extremist rant. What would you do with the stats if you had them? Round up all the usual suspects and herd them into concentration camps?

[Argus]

This sounds like yet another extremist rant. What would you do with the stats if you had them? Round up all the usual suspects and herd them into concentration camps?

If I were replying to a more intelligent questioner I'd answer.

See if you can find a grown-up to rephrase that question for you, boy.

[jbg]

That the majority of shootings in Toronto are by Blacks on Blacks with unregistered guns.

I thought the Jews commit most of the murders.

[Born Free]

If I were replying to a more intelligent questioner I'd answer.

OK. So now we know you really dont know what the Hell yer yapping and bitching about. Thanks for the heads up.

[Muddy]

You can`t fix a problem till you recognize the problem. Being politically correct will not fix a problem. Profiling and keeping stats will give us answers so we can disarm anti social behaviour in our society. Instead we put our heads in the sand. We continue to frisk and harass blue haired old white Gals at the airport instead of concentrating on the minorities that are prone to blowing people and things up.

[dizzy]

If I were replying to a more intelligent questioner I'd answer.

See if you can find a grown-up to rephrase that question for you, boy.

It's a fair question. How will the stats enable you to affect change?

When black kids shoot each other up in northwest toronto, the conversation quickly moves to problems with immigration, multiculturalism, etc. When a white guys serial rapes and kills children or women, we want to go inside of his mind to understand what makes him tick.

When an muslim father shamelessly kills his daughter for debasing herself with western ideals, the call radio phone lines light up again. When a white guy slaughters his entire family and then offs himself in the same news cycle, no one's calling to address 'the bigger issue'.

I have no problem collecting race-based stats... all of them, including on whites. But the question is, "what are you going to do with them?"

[Argus]

OK. So now we know you really dont know what the Hell yer yapping and bitching about. Thanks for the heads up.

Says the frenzied campaigner for censorship who calls himself Born Free....

[jbg]

I have no problem collecting race-based stats... all of them, including on whites. But the question is, "what are you going to do with them?"

The answer is obvious. Certain crimes do concentrate in certain ethnic groups. Others, as you correctly point out, do not.

[Argus]

It's a fair question. How will the stats enable you to affect change?

When black kids shoot each other up in northwest toronto, the conversation quickly moves to problems with immigration, multiculturalism, etc. When a white guys serial rapes and kills children or women, we want to go inside of his mind to understand what makes him tick.

If a particular group's behaviour varies widely from other groups I think it's legitimate to ask why. I think it's legitimate to inquire as to what is different about that group as compared to others in order to seek to address the problem. Because Jamaicans have been mentioned, we can start with them. We know the origins of Jamaican crime are in Jamaica. The country is extremely violent, and it has a history of dysfunctional families - particularly absent fathers and single teenage mothers. Jamaican immigration to Canada started with Jamaican women coming over as nannies and housekeepers, leaving their children behind. Years later, as they were granted citizenship, they brought over their children. Many of them hardly knew these mothers, and found themselves in a cold, foreign land, isolated, and educationally backward. The boys, in particular, banded together, and these groups, inspired by resentment, turned into gangs, which became criminal gangs, emulating their counterparts in Jamaica and the "gangsta culture" of rap and popular media. Those gangs continue today. The high school drop-out rate among young Black males, particularly Jamaicans, remains extremely high, providing a constant infusion of new recruits. Single teenage motherhood is the norm, not the exception in the Jamaican community in Canada as well as Jamaica. All of this helps define the problem. The solution obviously includes intensive work on young boys and girls to divorce them from a culture of early teenage motherhood and the importance of education.

Other communities have their own issues which cannot be addressed without gathering facts about the nature of the problem - or how much of a problem there is. Whether crime stats will really help us address the problem is problematical. Most such problems require intensive work - and often money. We do keep crime statistics on aborigines and their crime rate. A CBC report the other day, for example, included the throwaway line that 80% of the criminals incarcerated in Saskatchewan were natives. Has that been a big help in fixing the problems? I don't know. The problems continue. But we do know those statistics have been used to at least attempt to ameliorate the problem, as in with native healing lodges and special native processes for sentencing.

[msj]

If a particular group's behaviour varies widely from other groups I think it's legitimate to ask why. I think it's legitimate to inquire as to what is different about that group as compared to others in order to seek to address the problem. Because Jamaicans have been mentioned, we can start with them. We know the origins of Jamaican crime are in Jamaica. The country is extremely violent, and it has a history of dysfunctional families - particularly absent fathers and single teenage mothers. Jamaican immigration to Canada started with Jamaican women coming over as nannies and housekeepers, leaving their children behind. Years later, as they were granted citizenship, they brought over their children. Many of them hardly knew these mothers, and found themselves in a cold, foreign land, isolated, and educationally backward. The boys, in particular, banded together, and these groups, inspired by resentment, turned into gangs, which became criminal gangs, emulating their counterparts in Jamaica and the "gangsta culture" of rap and popular media. Those gangs continue today. The high school drop-out rate among young Black males, particularly Jamaicans, remains extremely high, providing a constant infusion of new recruits. Single teenage motherhood is the norm, not the exception in the Jamaican community in Canada as well as Jamaica. All of this helps define the problem. The solution obviously includes intensive work on young boys and girls to divorce them from a culture of early teenage motherhood and the importance of education.

Interesting story. I make no claim on it's veracity.

However, it would show the importance of abortion rights for women for the maternal health policy.

Well, if the "Freakonomics" crowd is to be believed, it would.

[dizzy]

If a particular group's behaviour varies widely from other groups I think it's legitimate to ask why. I think it's legitimate to inquire as to what is different about that group as compared to others in order to seek to address the problem. Because Jamaicans have been mentioned, we can start with them. We know the origins of Jamaican crime are in Jamaica. The country is extremely violent, and it has a history of dysfunctional families - particularly absent fathers and single teenage mothers. Jamaican immigration to Canada started with Jamaican women coming over as nannies and housekeepers, leaving their children behind. Years later, as they were granted citizenship, they brought over their children. Many of them hardly knew these mothers, and found themselves in a cold, foreign land, isolated, and educationally backward. The boys, in particular, banded together, and these groups, inspired by resentment, turned into gangs, which became criminal gangs, emulating their counterparts in Jamaica and the "gangsta culture" of rap and popular media. Those gangs continue today. The high school drop-out rate among young Black males, particularly Jamaicans, remains extremely high, providing a constant infusion of new recruits. Single teenage motherhood is the norm, not the exception in the Jamaican community in Canada as well as Jamaica. All of this helps define the problem. The solution obviously includes intensive work on young boys and girls to divorce them from a culture of early teenage motherhood and the importance of education.

Other communities have their own issues which cannot be addressed without gathering facts about the nature of the problem - or how much of a problem there is. Whether crime stats will really help us address the problem is problematical. Most such problems require intensive work - and often money. We do keep crime statistics on aborigines and their crime rate. A CBC report the other day, for example, included the throwaway line that 80% of the criminals incarcerated in Saskatchewan were natives. Has that been a big help in fixing the problems? I don't know. The problems continue. But we do know those statistics have been used to at least attempt to ameliorate the problem, as in with native healing lodges and special native processes for sentencing.

There's actually little other than nuance in what you've written that I'd make a dispute over. Crime is, in part, attitudinal which is, in part, cultural. But what are you going to do about it? Can you show me success stories wrt behaviour modification in other countries that collect data that are more successful than our own? I'm asking because I'd like to know how we can do things better.

[Sir Bandelot]

There's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics. For every statistic someone comes up with, several contradictory conclusions can be drawn. It comes down to how you slice the data. Looking at crime from a purely racial perspective may show that a disproportionate amount of crime is caused by black people. Looking at the data from an economic perspective might show that a disproportionate amount of crime is caused by the lower income class, poor, destitute, drug addicted, regardless of ethnic origin. It may then be demonstrated that visible minorities make up large numbers of these classes. What conclusion do you draw from all these statistics? Only a simpleton would believe that, therefore, the problem stems from ethnicity.

[msj]

There's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics.

And then there's the people trotting out old cliche's.

You're still Sir ID to me...

I think it is Shakeyhands signature that states: they muddy the waters to appear deep (by Nietzsche).

Too true, too true ....

[Sir Bandelot]

Read the post, jack, and refute it. Or is thinking not one of your strong points

[msj]

Read the post, jack, and refute it. Or is thinking not one of your strong points

In my experience, those who start posts with the cliche that you used are looking to close debate rather than open it.

Hence the .

I leave it to others to take it on as, frankly, it doesn't interest me, unless we have permission to use statistics, which, apparently, we don't.

[Sir Bandelot]

In my experience, those who start posts with the cliche that you used are looking to close debate rather than open it.

Hence the .

I leave it to others to take it on as, frankly, it doesn't interest me, unless we have permission to use statistics, which, apparently, we don't.

Your last two posts added nothing other than useless ad-hominem garbage. You are allowed to discuss statistics all you want. But if what you say can be disproved, I or someone else should point that out.

Getting back to the matter at hand, I reiterate my claim, it's not necessarily a problem with the data itself, its the interpretation of what it means. I have demonstrated one way that looking at one particular data set, and drawing firm conclusions from it can be very misleading. A simpler way to say it is, there are wealthy Jamaicans who are not involved in drugs and gun crimes. There are other factors involved. The naive person would only fixate on what seems obvious and draw wrong conclusions from that.

So my role here is only to try and educate, the naive...