Ban the Burka?

[wyly]

Why do we have reference it ? Why do we leave certain religions alone with regards to certain practices, and not others ? It's fine to say 'discrimination happens' but I don't see why we should be complacent about contradictions.

'Hot button' issues like this come up for political reasons.

or we could go the French route and ban all religious expression and reference in public facilities, no one has preference

[Michael Hardner]

or we could go the French route and ban all religious expression and reference in public facilities, no one has preference

No we couldn`t. Or we could, and a constitutional appeal would overturn it. People don`t like burkas, but the passing tastes of the day shouldn`t determine what minority rights should be - the courts should.

[Muddy]

Why would we make reference to Pakistani or Arab culture for that matter. We don`t believe in forced female circumscion or arranged marriages either. We actually believe women should be allowed to walk about freely without a male family member. We actually believe that women should be allowed to get a drivers licence.That girls choose to marry a fella of their choice no matter of religion or colour of skin. Pakistan should not be referenced when it comes to traditional Canadian culture. We have evolved to a higher plain I should hope when it comes to womens rights.

[Michael Hardner]

Why would we make reference to Pakistani or Arab culture for that matter. We don`t believe in forced female circumscion or arranged marriages either. We actually believe women should be allowed to walk about freely without a male family member. We actually believe that women should be allowed to get a drivers licence.That girls choose to marry a fella of their choice no matter of religion or colour of skin. Pakistan should not be referenced when it comes to traditional Canadian culture. We have evolved to a higher plain I should hope when it comes to womens rights.

I agree 100%.

[g_bambino]

Yes, there was but what is the relevance ?

The post I asked the question in response to put forward the idea that there always be guaranteed service from a female for burqa wearing women.

[Michael Hardner]

The post I asked the question in response to put forward the idea that there always be guaranteed service from a female for burqa wearing women.

Well, if women choose to dress in that way what is your business to tell them they can`t ?

[Sir Bandelot]

Ninety-five per cent of Quebecers support a proposed provincial law barring the face veil from government offices, schools, and other publicly funded institutions, says the poll, released exclusively to the Montreal Gazette Friday.

Albertans are most likely to support the veil ban, with 82 per cent approving the bill; followed by Ontario, with 77 per cent support; the Atlantic provinces (73 per cent) and British Columbia (70 per cent). Support for withholding government services from those wearing the face veil was lowest in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, at 65 per cent.

Bloc Québécois supporters favoured the bill most (95 per cent), along with Conservatives (86 per cent) and Liberals (81 per cent). Three-quarters of NDP supporters agreed with the bill.

Alright, fine. No more veils at christian white weddings.

Also, the nuns are creepin me out too. That's getting close to a veil.

[Michael Hardner]

Alright, fine. No more veils at christian white weddings.

Also, the nuns are creepin me out too. That's getting close to a veil.

Why don`t we ban nuns ? They have to take a vow of poverty, meaning that they own practically nothing and give everything to the church.

[Topaz]

This topic is about one woman that was asked to take off her burka so the teacher could teacher her french. The teacher would have to use their hearing and their eyes to see how she pronounced her words, what is wrong with that? Myself I don't really are one way or another. BTW, remember the same issue with the voting polls, were they asked the women to show their faces? When Afghanistan had their election, the women there were asked to show their faces before voting, so what is the problem doing it here?

[Michael Hardner]

This topic is about one woman that was asked to take off her burka so the teacher could teacher her french. The teacher would have to use their hearing and their eyes to see how she pronounced her words, what is wrong with that? Myself I don't really are one way or another. BTW, remember the same issue with the voting polls, were they asked the women to show their faces? When Afghanistan had their election, the women there were asked to show their faces before voting, so what is the problem doing it here?

This is from memory, but I believe they provided a woman for that service, which is why I`m suggesting it here.

[Michael Hardner]

This is from memory, but I believe they provided a woman for that service, which is why I`m suggesting it here.

Yes, here it is Afghanistan has women-only polling stations.

[CANADIEN]

Faces should be visible when getting a certain service where the service provider may want/need to see your face. A ban of clothing that covers the face when receiving these kinds of services, even if worn for religious reasons, is reasonable. However, I would not support a general ban on the use of burkas. People should have the freedom to wear what they want the rest of the time, when not in the process of an interaction which requires the face to be visible.

Exactly.

It is a reasonable expectation that one has to show his/her face when using certain public services. Otherwise, what a person decides to wear is his/her own business.

We have to ask ourselves not only what we want to ban or limit, but also why/

Is it in the name of euqality between men and women? Equality includes free choice which a ban would deny. And if veils are degrading to women (which I think they are, btw). how about clothing inspired by the Bitney Spreas of this world and that show women as little more than sex objects. Aren't they degrading too?

Is it in the name of laicity (a concept heard often in Quebec these days). Fine. Let's also deny services to Catholic nuns who wear a cross on their lapel.

Or is it, as some of our local bigots have expressed, simply because difference is unacceptable? If that's the case, then I say no to a ban. We claim to the world that we value freedom - freedom includes being free to be different.

[eyeball]

Why don`t we ban nuns ? They have to take a vow of poverty, meaning that they own practically nothing and give everything to the church.

My God...Communists.

[eyeball]

Boorish men will always be with us and should be chastised and a gentlmen present will always do just that.

As well as respect a lady's wishes to dress as she chooses.

[Michael Hardner]

My God...Communists.

Communists who take an oath to a foreign power, whom they will obey above national priorities no less.

[Mr.Canada]

AFAIK the ban is only banning the face veil in places where public government funded services are being requested. It isn't being banned in public altogether. I don't see the problem here, fraud on a massive scale is possible if one can cover their faces and not be asked to remove it. Not only that but Canada has been more than accomodationg, now people want special previledge and they are trying to Islamify our culture just like what is happening in the UK and elsewhere in Europe.

The people of Canada who pay the taxes and the government wages overwhelmingly support this bill so I think it wise to do what the people who pay the wages and welfare roles want. Majority rules.

[g_bambino]

Well, if women choose to dress in that way what is your business to tell them they can`t ?

When did I take it upon myself to tell them they can't? I think they should have the choice to dress as they please, only not expect that they can then tell everyone what can and can't be done to accomodate their choice of garb.

[c/e]

Edited March 29, 2010 by g_bambino

[Jerry J. Fortin]

When did I take it upon myself to tell them they can't? I think they should have the choice to dress as they please, only not expect that they can then tell everyone what can and can't be done to accomodate their choice of garb.

[c/e]

This is where the phrase going to far comes from. What of the true point here! This all stems from picture ID, no picture no ID. Why not address the real problem instead of creating more problems. Damn governments and the fools who support them!

[Muddy]

As well as respect a lady's wishes to dress as she chooses.

I don`t care if they wish to wear a tent. But the covering of the face is what I object too mostly. I do not think unless disfigured any sane women would choose to wear this apparel. This dress indicates the wishes of the males in their families. I notice you never answered how you feel about forced female circumscion or arranged marriages. These are their traditions . Do you wish these traditions imported into Canadian society?

I am in business,should I be able to refuse service to someone I can`t identify by their countenance?

[g_bambino]

This is where the phrase going to far comes from. What of the true point here! This all stems from picture ID, no picture no ID. Why not address the real problem instead of creating more problems. Damn governments and the fools who support them!

Well, I agree with you insofar as the government should not be dictating where someone may or may not wear a niqab or burqa, nor who may and may not refuse service to someone who refuses to reveal their face, outside of government jurisdiction. But, then, as far as I can tell, the Quebec bill only encompasses Crown employees and the services they provide.

[DrGreenthumb]

Well, I agree with you insofar as the government should not be dictating where someone may or may not wear a niqab or burqa, nor who may and may not refuse service to someone who refuses to reveal their face, outside of government jurisdiction. But, then, as far as I can tell, the Quebec bill only encompasses Crown employees and the services they provide.

I would have no problem if it were only a quick check for identification purposes. That is not the case. They are not allowed to recieve medical attention or public education unless they leave it off during the duration of recieving the service. For some of these women that is like asking them to to have to sit in a classroom full of men while having their bare breasts exposed.

[eyeball]

I don`t care if they wish to wear a tent. But the covering of the face is what I object too mostly. I do not think unless disfigured any sane women would choose to wear this apparel. This dress indicates the wishes of the males in their families. I notice you never answered how you feel about forced female circumscion or arranged marriages. These are their traditions . Do you wish these traditions imported into Canadian society?

I am in business,should I be able to refuse service to someone I can`t identify by their countenance?

I think these should be outlawed. As for covering their faces I could care less.

As for their men, they should do the decent thing and wear some blinders. They're the problem here, not the women. These guys are an embarrassment to men everywhere.

[g_bambino]

I would have no problem if it were only a quick check for identification purposes. That is not the case.

Actually, it seems to be exactly the case.

5. An accommodation may only be made if it is reasonable, that is, if it does not impose on the department, body or institution any undue hardship with regard to, among other considerations, related costs or the impact on the proper operation of the department, body or institution or on the rights of others.

6. The practice whereby a personnel member of the Administration or an institution and a person to whom services are being provided by the Administration or the institution show their face during the delivery of services is a general practice.

If an accommodation involves an adaptation of that practice and reasons of security, communication or identification warrant it, the accommodation must be denied.

Bill 94; An Act to establish guidelines governing accommodation requests within the Administration and certain institutions

So, someone can wear a burqa or niqab in a Crown funded institution. Only when that garment impedes the proper delivery of service can the service be denied.

[Michael Hardner]

When did I take it upon myself to tell them they can't? I think they should have the choice to dress as they please, only not expect that they can then tell everyone what can and can't be done to accomodate their choice of garb.

They can't tell, they can only ask. The government tells or doesn't tell. You inferred that you can tell them how to dress when you said:

Was there not a decades long fight for gender equality?

Implying that gender equality means we can tell women not to dress according to their religion.

The government does accommodate non-religious people on grounds of modesty so why not provide that consideration for religious people ?

[g_bambino]

You inferred that you can tell them how to dress when you said:

Was there not a decades long fight for gender equality?

Implying that gender equality means we can tell women not to dress according to their religion.

I already explained to you that the post I asked the question in response to put forward the idea that there always be guaranteed service from a female for burqa wearing women. The gender inequality arises when discrimination against men is permitted merely to satisfy some women's highly unusual personal preferences, unrelated to either religion or common ideas of modesty.