Nazi-era terminology used by Bloc

[Topaz]

The leader of the Bloc is saying the relationship with Canada for them, is like the French resistance against the Nazi in WW2. Rally? I don't think so, they don't know how GOOD they have it. Hitler, would NEVER let THEM be part of a government, instead Hitler would have had them shot!!! They run their mouths on this stuff, yet they gladly seat in Parliament take Canadian pensions and wages and why do WE(Canadians) put up with them? Refresh my memory, why is the Bloc there in Parliament? oh yeah, to help out the party that needs help with votes, when the other two parties are voting against/for something. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100321/national/bloc_nazi_spat

[cybercoma]

Quebec's argument has been reduced to hyperbole for decades. Night of the Long Knives? Remember that one?

[Sir Bandelot]

Did Duceppe actually use the word "Nazi" in his statement? I don't see it mentioned specifically in the article.

"For now, we're members of a resistance movement," Duceppe told the crowd. "But members of today's resistance movement are tomorrow's victors. Long live a sovereign Quebec!"

If that's the only thing he said, I don't see how it must necessarily equate to Nazism.

---------

On a lighter note, my spell-checker keeps wanting to change the name "Duceppe" to "Duckweed". Must be written by a federalist...

[Jack Weber]

Zig Ziegler,Mr Duceppe...Zig Ziegler...

[Bonam]

The term "resistance" is not restricted to the context of resistance against Nazis.

[Peter F]

why do WE(Canadians) put up with them? Refresh my memory, why is the Bloc there in Parliament?

Ummm...they were elected?

[capricorn]

The term "resistance" is not restricted to the context of resistance against Nazis.

In a press conference following the meeting, Duceppe clarified that his use of the term resistance did in fact relate to the French resistance in WWII. Duceppe may not have used the term Nazi in his address to the meeting, but it's unclear to me whether Duceppe used the term Nazi in the press conference, but the Quebec media reporting on it sure did.

Plus tard en point de presse, M. Duceppe s'est défendu d'établir un parallèle entre le mouvement souverainiste québécois et la Résistance française contre le joug nazi. Il a dit s'inspirer d'un texte du défunt intellectuel et syndicaliste Pierre Vadeboncoeur.

Il a néanmoins affirmé que la souveraineté du Québec ne sera possible qu'avec le travail des résistants, comme ce fut le cas pour la France libérée en 1944.

http://www.jminforme.ca/pageune/article/991079

En conférence de presse après son discours, le chef bloquiste s’est défendu de dresser un parallèle entre son parti et la Résistance française contre le régime nazi. Il a cependant affirmé que la souveraineté, tout comme la libération de la France en 1944, sera le travail des résistants. «La souveraineté du Québec pas plus que la Libération, n'est possible, n'eut été possible, sans le travail des résistants» a-t-il expliqué.

http://lcn.canoe.ca/lcn/infos/national/archives/2010/03/20100320-181916.html

[Sir Bandelot]

it's unclear to me whether Duceppe used the term Nazi in the press conference, but the Quebec media reporting on it sure did.

I don't think he intended it that way, as the cbc article explains

Later grilled by journalists, Duceppe denied his comments were a direct comparison to France's resistance movement, claiming his speech was inspired by prominent Quebec author and unionist Pierre Vadeboncoeur, who died last February.

But if he did, it's quite underhanded. Remember for Duceppe, it's not about what WE think outside of Quebec, but what the people of Quebec themselves think of it. And of course, the media is eating it up.

Now as to the notion of a French resistance to Nazism in QUEBEC, well, ahem...

Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Traitor_and_the_Jew

Edited March 22, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[Born Free]

.. Refresh my memory, why is the Bloc there in Parliament? .

Better ask Mulroney about that...

[eyeball]

The term "resistance" is not restricted to the context of resistance against Nazis.

I suggested it once in the context of resistance against corporatism or some such thing and was promptly characterized as being an anti-semitic totalitarian communist.

I mean, if you're not 'with us' you must be an enemy and by extension a Nazi or a socialist or a dictator...take your pick.

[ZZelda]

Better ask Mulroney about that...

Don't forget Trudeau he refused to fight for freedom in WW2 instead he walked around Montreal with a Nazi uniform on.

[Topaz]

Don't forget Trudeau he refused to fight for freedom in WW2 instead he walked around Montreal with a Nazi uniform on.

What does that have to do about why the Bloc is in Parliament? As far as the Nazi part, the French Resistance only fought the Germans, right?

[capricorn]

Remember for Duceppe, it's not about what WE think outside of Quebec, but what the people of Quebec themselves think of it.

Great point. The Bloc was originally intended as a bridge, or springboard to sovereignty. The Bloc has not delivered in spite of promises made for 20 years and Duceppe has to convince Quebecers the Bloc is still relevant. Quebecers may decide they want representation from a mainstream party that can actually be in power in Ottawa. If they decide independence is really what they want they could decide to let the PQ take over the entire sovereignty mandate. The PQ doesn't want Duceppe in its ranks so if the Bloc folds his political future would be over.

[eyeball]

The Bloq has proven to be a boon to some of us outside Quebec who would rather not see a majority government in Parliament - at least until such time as Parliament reforms itself and start's behaving as if it were a representative forum for Canadians as opposed to being a forum for political parties.

I hope successors to the Bloc and Quebec voters choose to stay on the regional path they have chosen and I see little reason for BC to not to follow Quebec's lead.

Edited March 22, 2010 by eyeball

[Born Free]

Don't forget Trudeau he refused to fight for freedom in WW2 instead he walked around Montreal with a Nazi uniform on.

Yet another urban legend. However the question asked was how the BQ got into Parliament.I suggest that you ask Mulroney. They were his boys....

[groupeii]

Facts;

Quebec - was occupied by the British in War

France was occupied by the Germans in War

Quebec was given over in surrender by the leadership of France

Northern France was given over in surrender by the leadership of France

The British put down rebellion in Quebec after the occupation.

The Germans put down rebellion in France after the occupation.

Quebec has about 50% of the population seeking freedom from the British.

France gained their Freedom when France was liberated by the Free French, and other allies.

Charles De Gualle was told never to come back to Canada after delivering a freedom for Quebec speech which was stated as a continuation of occupation of people who ought to be free from occupation and overlordship by a foreign power.

Quebec still is not free but a super majority of Quebec Federal Ridings are in the hands of stated Quebec Sovereignists.

Yet you state that Quebec is nothing like Occupied Nazi France?

It is ignorance to say there are no similarities, and gross neglect of history.

Especially if you attack someones use of their freedom of speech and belief, in what is suppose to be a constitutional right. How dare you attack someone for their beliefs. How dare you attack the constitution of Canada.

That is what the Nazi's did and would do today. So you support the Nazis why not support the Constitution of Canada instead?

Edited March 23, 2010 by groupeii

[Guest TrueMetis]

Yet you state that Quebec is nothing like Occupied Nazi France?

It is ignorance to say there are no similarities, and gross neglect of history.

No Quebec is nothing like occupied Nazi France.

It is an insult to those who lived in France during that time and a gross misunderstanding of history.

Lets list a few thing occupied France had to go through and see if Quebec went through the same.

Lack of food, France yes, Quebec no

Lack of raw materials, France yes, Quebec no

Aerial bombings, France yes, Quebec no

Obligatory Work Service, France yes, Quebec no

Curfew, France yes, Quebec no

Education Propaganda, France yes, Quebec no

How exactly is Quebec like occupied France?

Edited March 23, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Wilber]

If Duceppe was dealing with real Nazis he would have had a 9mm in the back of the head a long time ago.

[groupeii]

No Quebec is nothing like occupied Nazi France.

Did you live in Occupied France - if not how are your statements justified or educated?

It is an insult to those who lived in France during that time and a gross misunderstanding of history.

So you lived in France and are offended, or you have consulted French people who lived it?

Lets list a few thing occupied France had to go through and see if Quebec went through the same.

Lack of food, France yes, Quebec no

You know there are undernourished people in Quebec.

But is this to say that lack of food equates a Nazi occupation - where are the Nazi's in Africa where 85% of the population is undernourished? Or the other 1 Billion starving people on the planet - suddenly the state of freedom is tied into availability of food?

Lack of raw materials, France yes, Quebec no

Why is Quebec unable to develop resources in most of Northern Quebec?

Aerial bombings, France yes, Quebec no

The Conservatives drop bombs on Quebec all the time just because they are worded and policy driven doesn't make them any less explosive to the people!

Obligatory Work Service, France yes, Quebec no

Are you denying that Quebec doesn't have a obligatory work service? Hello, work fare? The other obligatory work is in the form of 10-50+% taxes on their income - to fund Albertans who are so anti Canadian they spit on the Francophones and their culture. Too self indignant of an Anglo mentality that they won't even attempt to embrace an equal nation. Why would you want to pay someone to piss on your ancestors and your lifeblood. Why send your hard earned money to people who don't respect you or your freedom and self determination?

Curfew, France yes, Quebec no

There have been curfews in Quebec.

Education Propaganda, France yes, Quebec no

This is a moot point.

How exactly is Quebec like occupied France?

By having a foreign power occupy its land from a war of conquest and surrender of their power base contrary the wishes the people, and those people subjected to the laws of that foreign power. The right to self determination limited by being turned into a minority nation within another nation holding majority.

Edited March 23, 2010 by groupeii

[Bonam]

The Conservatives drop bombs on Quebec all the time just because they are worded and policy driven doesn't make them any less explosive to the people!

Ever lived in a war zone with bombs dropping all around you? Until you have, feel free to shut up on this topic.

[kimmy]

Are you denying that Quebec doesn't have a obligatory work service? Hello, work fare? The other obligatory work is in the form of 10-50+% taxes on their income - to fund Albertans who are so anti Canadian they spit on the Francophones and their culture. Too self indignant of an Anglo mentality that they won't even attempt to embrace an equal nation. Why would you want to pay someone to piss on your ancestors and your lifeblood. Why send your hard earned money to people who don't respect you or your freedom and self determination?

The idea that Quebecers are funding Albertans is pretty funny.

-k

[blueblood]

The idea that Quebecers are funding Albertans is pretty funny.

-k

Sounds like the left has their version of Mr. Canada. This is gold.

[Hydraboss]

Ooooh. You and I are going to be the mostest, bestest of friends! (stay out of this August)

Did you live in Occupied France - if not how are your statements justified or educated?

Let's see....how about the fact that there are lots and lots of people in Kwebek THAT AREN'T DEAD? You for example. You would have been shot immediately (if you were lucky) for talking this way about Nazi's or any German for that matter. Justified enough for you?

So you lived in France and are offended, or you have consulted French people who lived it?

I've never met anyone from Mars either, so it must be true that Kwebek is no different from Mars. All that red sand and lack of water from The Occupation. Nasty.

You know there are undernourished people in Quebec.

But is this to say that lack of food equates a Nazi occupation - where are the Nazi's in Africa where 85% of the population is undernourished? Or the other 1 Billion starving people on the planet - suddenly the state of freedom is tied into availability of food?

So Kwebek is occupied because some people use the food bank. Uh huh. But in countries where there is basic lawlessness, women and girls are commonly raped, children are starved by crooked government officials use foreign aid to buy weapons, and skinny black dudes use 40 year old AK47's and canoes to hijack oil tankers while wearing lifejackets as bullet proof vests, there is no sign of oppression like that in Kwebek. Yes, Pizza Pops equals Freedom. You are correct.

Why is Quebec unable to develop resources in most of Northern Quebec?

Because the Newfies are all working their asses off in Alberta making a ton of cash and the little frenchies are too lazy to do it themselves. Don't worry, I'm sure the next round of Equalization negotiations will include forced resource labour for Kwebek from the rest of Canada.

The Conservatives drop bombs on Quebec all the time just because they are worded and policy driven doesn't make them any less explosive to the people!

You are correct. Just the other day the CBC was showing graphic images of women and children and their gruesome wounds from where they were struck by IPD's (Improvised Propaganda Devices). Chilled my heart to have to watch those poor children being forced to deal with daycare paid for by Albertans. And the Canada Day celebrations last year! Oh, the humanity!!!

Are you denying that Quebec doesn't have a obligatory work service? Hello, work fare? The other obligatory work is in the form of 10-50+% taxes on their income - to fund Albertans who are so anti Canadian they spit on the Francophones and their culture. Too self indignant of an Anglo mentality that they won't even attempt to embrace an equal nation. Why would you want to pay someone to piss on your ancestors and your lifeblood. Why send your hard earned money to people who don't respect you or your freedom and self determination?

It's actually a dirty trick. Long ago Albertans figured that the best way to attack Kwebek was to work hard and earn lots of money, therefore being able to send huge amounts to the frenchies. This money allowed them to be lazy (their natural habitat) and do nothing but eat poutine and smoke. Thus, our master plan was realized in that the Almost French are fat, lazy and can no longer defend themselves from our impending attack. We will have the land for ourselves. Yes we will.

There have been curfews in Quebec.

Most kids of insufficient mental age have curfews. It keeps them from being loose in the neighbourhood and just getting into trouble. It's hard enough to keep them from sticking bobby-pins in power plugs at home, let alone keeping them from walking into light posts or wandering into rivers in the dark. We did this for your own protection. Someday you'll understand.

This is a moot point.

Are you refering to most of what you've written? If so, I agree.

By having a foreign power occupy its land from a war of conquest and surrender of their power base contrary the wishes the people, and those people subjected to the laws of that foreign power. The right to self determination limited by being turned into a minority nation within another nation holding majority.

Are you refering to the way Anglos are treated inside La Spoiled Province? Once again, you are correct. The dictatorship must fall! Someone get me a beret!! First we drink latte, THEN we march forth with our hands out!!!! "Jaques! I said 3 feet by 3 feet!!! Now go get more white cloth and make those flags again!"

[Muddy]

To compare the so called plight of Quebec,(if that is what Duceppe said) is ridiculous and is an insult not only to French citizens who fought so bravely to free themselves from the yoke of tyranny, it also is an insult to Canadians. Canadians French , Jewish,Poles, natives , English etc who fought and died to free France and drive NAZI`s from their soverign country. There was a movement however of some Quebecers to not send their boys ,commonly called Zombies. Trudeau did not participate with his peers in the liberation of France. Of course he did not believe he had peers.

[groupeii]

Ooooh. You and I are going to be the mostest, bestest of friends! (stay out of this August)

Let's see....how about the fact that there are lots and lots of people in Kwebek THAT AREN'T DEAD? You for example. You would have been shot immediately (if you were lucky) for talking this way about Nazi's or any German for that matter. Justified enough for you?

You are quite wrong, if you think that if Quebecers raised arms in resistance of overlordship of a foreign crown they would not be shot dead. The Canadian Government be it the war measures act, that during the October crisis did lead to deaths, and arbitrary arrest of close to 500 people, for being separatists, rather than committing crimes. During the resistance movement of yore after the British occupation at the same time of the Toronto rebellion, people were very much shot, and Quebecers very much persecuted and killed. You are saying that the Jews wern't persecuted simply for being Jewish. The Jews had been persecuted for years, and even now after the British gave back the land to establish part of the state of Israel, they are still being persecuted, although also persecutors. Quebec Sovereignty is no different in that it is subjected to a majority of foreign occupation, with a minority voice. In countries like Yugoslavia, and Russia those states broke up to provide for national autonomy, yet in Canada a lasting sentiment of Soviet lordship reigns in the form of the British conquest of the French and Indian war.

So Kwebek is occupied because some people use the food bank. Uh huh. But in countries where there is basic lawlessness, women and girls are commonly raped, children are starved by crooked government officials use foreign aid to buy weapons, and skinny black dudes use 40 year old AK47's and canoes to hijack oil tankers while wearing lifejackets as bullet proof vests, there is no sign of oppression like that in Kwebek. Yes, Pizza Pops equals Freedom. You are correct.

Have your version of what an occupation means. Are people in Iraq or Afghanistan any less occupied because they have food. No, you're twisting the quality of life of those occupied, to their ability to have freedom and self determination; they are two different matters.

Food banks aren't federally supported to full need.

Dogs are still owned by their masters. The Quebeqois aren't dogs.

And before you state Afghanistan and Iraq have elections both have been rigged by NATO presures on candidates or potential candidates, as well as limitations such as former Bathists being ineligible, or Taliban members being ineligible to run, thus denying full political choice, and free and fair elections that represent the democratic will. While the PQ is able to run in elections, they don't have the federated powers of succession exercisable and instead have been forced to a vote of populous which is contrary to the federated powers of other countries of right to self succession in most federated states, also note the confines of succession have been deligated by constitutional amendments that were not consented by the constituent party involved.

You are correct.

Just the other day the CBC was showing graphic images of women and children and their gruesome wounds from where they were struck by IPD's (Improvised Propaganda Devices).

What maternal care and allowing abortions? Sure I'm sure a lot of Quebec catholic's who don't support abortion were bombed by the conservatives towing the status quo instead of moving to ban abortions in Canada. Instead now they have put funding to allow for abortions in a province whose major religious group does not advocate for the practice.

The dictatorship must fall! Someone get me a beret!! First we drink latte, THEN we march forth with our hands out!!!! "Jaques! I said 3 feet by 3 feet!!! Now go get more white cloth and make those flags again!"

While a lot of your argument is intentionally asinine you raise some points. I would say though you are self indignant because you recognize only a narrow world view but claim to be pro federalist. You aren't. You support loss of paternity and pride - patria, you will fail.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

- You are neglecting that it is against international law to occupy and change domestic laws within todays scope of international law. The continued occupation would be deemed contrary to the current standards of international law. The precedent of national autonomy or self designated succession from a federated body are all precedences around the world.

While I am not advocating for civil war, I do beleive that individual and national autonomy should be supported, and if not the soveriegnty and self rule of the whole of Quebec, atleast a protion should be set aside to provide for a state such as Anticosti Island to begin with - as to not disrupt the status quo too much, but still allow for a gradual transition of a free Quebec that does not gravely disrupt Canada as a whole, which the succession of the province of Quebec might do.

You have a movement in Quebec that espouses

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, sed dulcius pro patria vivere, et dulcissimum pro patria bibere. Ergo, bibamus pro salute patriae"

Yet you attack it.

Edited March 23, 2010 by groupeii