Prime Minister violated the law - publically

[Smallc]

Well, where was Harper when he'd made the deal? If that province sells lottery tickets or allows casinos to operate, then I'd say leave Harper alone. If that province did indeed ban all gambling, then prosecute. How complicated is that?

You always seem to want to boil something down to some kind of absolutism. The reality is, life isn't nearly that simple. Harper really hasn't done anything wrong, but at the same time, we can't allow people everywhere to open all different kinds of gambling facilities. These things have to be regulated.

[bjre]

You always seem to want to boil something down to some kind of absolutism. The reality is, life isn't nearly that simple.

So you mean people are not born equal, some people should have more freedom than others, that depend on what is his position and how much money he earned? Laws should treat people different according to above difference?

Harper really hasn't done anything wrong,

Could any other say that at court to the judge and be released at once?

but at the same time, we can't allow people everywhere to open all different kinds of gambling facilities. These things have to be regulated.

So, are you the god, you can decide who can be allowed to gamble?

[Smallc]

[Machjo]

You always seem to want to boil something down to some kind of absolutism. The reality is, life isn't nearly that simple. Harper really hasn't done anything wrong, but at the same time, we can't allow people everywhere to open all different kinds of gambling facilities. These things have to be regulated.

All I'm saying is that if the government allows the sale of lottery tickets, then it should leave Harper alone. What he did is no worse. In fact, what he did is even more acceptable, seeing that he'd not even benefited from it materially in any way.

[Smallc]

I didn't see the government going after Harper.

[capricorn]

This is not being passed off as a "gift" but proceeds of a bet that had to do with winter games some people are claiming he funded and organized.

Who are some people and do you have a link to support that? And please, Harper did not organize the games. He did not fund the games. The Canadian people funded the games. Or did you not know that?

The beer was won on a specific event within those games that he was in attendance of.

So what?

And what of the billions of federal government funding? Did the PM have nothing to do with that?

In simple terms, he took the money from our taxes and allocated it to the games. Does everything have to be explained to you in such minute detail?

[Machjo]

I didn't see the government going after Harper.

Neither did I. I was referring to the OP. I'm not against prosecuting Harper for any particular crime, as long as it is a crime and that Harper is prosecuted as would anyone else.

[Oleg Bach]

Violation of the law is not violation of morality - or what is right or wrong..it is a technical violation that lawyers can spin anyway they want because they are privledged..and most politicals are lawyews..so in effect they are lawfull and defunct of morality - welcome to the brave new world of liars that we trust - I could never figure out why we grant grace and truth to those that lie to us.

[Sir Bandelot]

What? Harper reportedly gave the beer as a gift to charity? How magnanimous. Hope some of the rubbys down at the soup kitchen get to enjoy it.

Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake..."

Stephen Harper: "Let them drink beer..."

Edited March 21, 2010 by Sir Bandelot

[groupeii]

What? Harper reportedly gave the beer as a gift to charity? How magnanimous. Hope some of the rubbys down at the soup kitchen get to enjoy it.

Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake..."

Stephen Harper: "Let them drink beer..."

Someone who robs an old lady on the street and donates the proceeds to Breast Cancer awareness commits no less a crime.

The fact he violated antigaming and gambling laws in atleast three ways and compromised his position as Prime Minister of Canada should not be ingored, a small crime is still a crime. How this effects the national consensus on people who commit violations of gambling law shoulnd't be overlooked. He essentially is supporting organized crime by his actions, and supporting gambling, something that has caused harm to many people.

His actions should not be supported, and he should be charged with violation of gaming and gambling laws, he should also be kicked from his post of PM due to conflict of interest and ethics violations arising out of this escapade.

[groupeii]

It is also a crime in the US. The other end of the illegal gambling.

[groupeii]

As an organizer and participant he should not be allowed to "wager" on any ongoing event considering his position of authority. It is a gross violation of ethics, and would not be acceptable in any sport, for instance the CEO of the NHL to bet on games of the NHL.

[M.Dancer]

Hate to rain on your mock outrage parade but there is ample precedence that shows that bets between friends is not against the law in either Canada or the US.

[groupeii]

Hate to rain on your mock outrage parade but there is ample precedence that shows that bets between friends is not against the law in either Canada or the US.

There are ample examples that allowing bets or wagers on games you run without a license is illegal if it involve a prize of money or money's worth.

Sorry but your precedent doesn't apply because Harper was involved in organization and funding of the games. He was an actor. This is the exact same reason why people who work for a company offering a prize cannot win the prize, or lotto company workers cannot win the lotto they administer.

Fact is Harper had direct sway and financing through his workplace - he organized the games, and he took a bet on the games he was organizing - that is exactly what is illegal.

He would need a license to offer accept any type of bet on games he was party to organizing and an employee or agent of.

Sorry but it was illegal. This is not as simple as "took a bet with a friend".

This is why playing poker for money with a bunch of friends is also illegal. A business including the olypmic games (a business) cannot organize gaming with prizes for people who arn't players without having a license.

Just because there was only one person to bet does not take away the fact that Harper funded and organized the games.

It is illegal. Not because he bet with someone but because he was an agent organizer of the games.

Here is what Jewish Rabbi's say about gambling and sports betting:

rabbis nevertheless are opposed to all gambling. In fact, the rabbis ruled that winning money at gambling, while not actual robbery, is close to it and therefore gambling debts cannot be collected through a Jewish court of law. In essence, the rabbis are opposed to gambling because it is unproductive as well as being akin to robbery, maintaining that all people should be engaged in activities that advance the welfare of mankind

Why would Harper again turn his back on the Jews by doing such an unethical

act.

What you are missing here is this

"Gambling or gaming, betting of money or valuables on, and often participation in, games of chance (some involving degrees of skill). In England and in the United States, gambling was not a common-law crime if conducted privately"

press releases ain't private - the fact this was a public and mass publicized event is completely contrary to the nation of "private betting". You don't publicize and bring to the public sphere a private bet. The elements of the private bet fail to exist when this occurs.

In the US betting on sports such as baseball, basketball, boxing, and football, is illegal in nearly all states.

The PM does is not exempt in the provision due to the requirement not to be "engaged in any way in the business of betting"

Unfortunately he as prime minister and organizer of the games and gambling laws and cabinet with and appointer of the attorney general IS, and the "any way involved" would not exempt him.

He not only violated the law but grossly violated ethics codes of parliament.

Edited March 22, 2010 by groupeii

[M.Dancer]

It is illegal. Not because he bet with someone but because he was an agent organizer of the games.

Shall we then just say, "who cares?"

Your point is tenuous at best. Harper was not involved in the game, the event or the Olympic organization. The bet was not with an intent to profit or to capitalize in anyway.

The SCOTUS has ruled that bets between friends are allowed and the US has ruled that bets where some skill is involved does not constitute a lottery (IE office pools)

Either way...no one cares and rightly so.

[Wilber]

Mayors, Premiers, PM's and politicians of all stripes have been making public wagers with their counterparts over sporting events for decades. What a waste of space.

[Topaz]

The Prime Minister is obligated to report gifts he receives. If it will make you feel better, when the next report is made public and he doesn't report the two cases of beer report it to the proper authorities. Maybe that will give some purpose to your life.

Wrong. VANOC and the IOC organized the games, not the government.

True, the PM does report gifts but if he does what Mulroney did, only the wife got gifts and Mulroney didn`t have to report.

[groupeii]

The Canadian government operates and regulates gambling in Canada.

The PM is the head of that government. They are therefore not exempt from private betting provision due to being involved in the business of betting. So while you can try to spin this to reduce the fact that two people privately bet, this is not the case because of the position of authority the PM has in relation to the business of betting in Canada. This is akin to the CEO of lotto Ontario playing the lotto and winning. It is simply not legal and simply not ethical.

Just because it was a case of beer and not a million dollars does not make this any different. It is still a violation of the law.

And if again you say he is exempt due to the provision you are wrong because

Canadian jurisdictions currently perform multiple roles in the provision of gamblinggoods and services, including licensing, managing, conducting, marketing, promoting,operating and regulating the activity, as well as garnering most of the profits.

The PM is an agent and overseer of not only legislation of the business but in facilitation and operation of the business so the private bet exemption does not apply.

The CCC exemption from criminal wrongdoing states:

a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting

In this instance both individuals would be culpable due to their direct authority in the business of betting.

The fact they are individuals, or the question of private/public nature of the bet, does not provide for the exemption on grounds of their direct involvement in some way in the business of betting.

The PM committed a criminal act. End of story.

Edited March 22, 2010 by groupeii

[Alta4ever]

The Canadian government operates and regulates gambling in Canada.

The PM is the head of that government. They are therefore not exempt from private betting provision due to being involved in the business of betting. So while you can try to spin this to reduce the fact that two people privately bet, this is not the case because of the position of authority the PM has in relation to the business of betting in Canada. This is akin to the CEO of lotto Ontario playing the lotto and winning. It is simply not legal and simply not ethical.

Just because it was a case of beer and not a million dollars does not make this any different. It is still a violation of the law.

And if again you say he is exempt due to the provision you are wrong because

Canadian jurisdictions currently perform multiple roles in the provision of gamblinggoods and services, including licensing, managing, conducting, marketing, promoting,operating and regulating the activity, as well as garnering most of the profits.

The PM is an agent and overseer of not only legislation of the business but in facilitation and operation of the business so the private bet exemption does not apply.

The CCC exemption from criminal wrongdoing states:

a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting

In this instance both individuals would be culpable due to their direct authority in the business of betting.

The fact they are individuals, or the question of private/public nature of the bet, does not provide for the exemption on grounds of their direct involvement in some way in the business of betting.

The PM committed a criminal act. End of story.

Time to get off the meds.

Why have all the loonies congregating here again lately.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Alta4ever

[M.Dancer]

The Canadian government operates and regulates gambling in Canada.

False. They are regulated by the provinces and run by the provinces.

Friendly bets don't fall under their umbrella

The PM is the head of that government. They are therefore not exempt from private betting provision due to being involved in the business of betting.

They are not, so never mind. If they were, please show that an Ontario civil servant is not allowed to buy a 6/49

So while you can try to spin this to reduce the fact that two people privately bet, this is not the case because of the position of authority the PM has in relation to the business of betting in Canada. This is akin to the CEO of lotto Ontario playing the lotto and winning. It is simply not legal and simply not ethical.

No it is not akin.

Just because it was a case of beer and not a million dollars does not make this any different. It is still a violation of the law.

And if again you say he is exempt due to the provision you are wrong because

Canadian jurisdictions currently perform multiple roles in the provision of gamblinggoods and services, including licensing, managing, conducting, marketing, promoting,operating and regulating the activity, as well as garnering most of the profits.

The PM is an agent and overseer of not only legislation of the business but in facilitation and operation of the business so the private bet exemption does not apply.

The CCC exemption from criminal wrongdoing states:

a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting

Good luck with that....Any bets this is tinfoilery?

[fellowtraveller]

This is why playing poker for money with a bunch of friends is also illegal.

complete and utter baloney.

Gambling is not illegal at all in Canada, and Harper making a wager with Obama is certainly legal.

What is illegal is unlicensed profit making from gambling.

You can invite your pals over to play poker for millions of dollars if you wish, but the house cannot take a cut of any kind.

[groupeii]

False. They are regulated by the provinces and run by the provinces.

False. Gambling is not stated in the constitution as a provincial jurisdiction - there fore it is reserved to federal powers.

Legislation such as that in the Criminal code specifically deals with gaming and gambling in Canada. It specificly prohibits private betting of individuals in any way engaged in the business of betting. As a public administrator - he oversees the exercise the government and those people he appoints specifically police the industry of gaming, such as sports Canada and Industry Canada. Furthermore, he specifically was an agent at the Olympics and acted in a capacity as an agent of the Olympics.

Friendly bets don't fall under their umbrella

The law is the law. A friendly purchase of a lotto ticket isn't the deal, but it is what the person does and if they are legally allowed to buy the ticket. Harper was not legally exempt from the provision of the criminal code for betting on a sports event that the Federal Government funded operated and hired for. He bet on his own team, and it is illegal because he also oversees the administration and appointment of officials who directly administer betting laws in Canada.

They are not, so never mind. If they were, please show that an Ontario civil servant is not allowed to buy a 6/49

Exempt

employee, owner, partner, officer or director of:

• OLG retailer involved in the sale and redemption of

OLG lottery products

• OLG (Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation)

• Interprovincial Lottery Corporation

• Canadian lottery jurisdiction*

• Key lottery Suppliers

• AGCO (Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario)

• Accountable Ministry (Ministry of Finance (effective July 8, 2009),*

See the last one.

Ministry of Government Services, Ministry of Public Infrastructure

and Renewal (pre July 8, 2009)

• Supplier of Independent Audit services

• Supplier of Independent Advisory services

• Supplier of Independent Security services ; and

any and all

of my (the Claimant’s) immediate family members (meaning spouse, children, parents or siblings) and

other relatives residing with me (the Claimant) who are, or who at any time

within the one year period prior to claiming the Prize have

been, an OLG retailer, an employee of an OLG retailer involved in the sale and redemption of OLG lottery products or an

employee of OLG;

Good luck with that....Any bets this is tinfoilery?

You are the nutbar here, defending a criminal and criminal acts in the highest echelons of government in Canada. You disgust me.

Edited March 22, 2010 by groupeii

[g_bambino]

Furthermore, he specifically was an agent at the Olympics and acted in a capacity as an agent of the Olympics.

Harper had nothing to do with the IOC, COC, or VANOC, whatsoever.

He bet on his own team.

Harper owns Team Canada?

[Machjo]

Someone who robs an old lady on the street and donates the proceeds to Breast Cancer awareness commits no less a crime.

The fact he violated antigaming and gambling laws in atleast three ways and compromised his position as Prime Minister of Canada should not be ingored, a small crime is still a crime. How this effects the national consensus on people who commit violations of gambling law shoulnd't be overlooked. He essentially is supporting organized crime by his actions, and supporting gambling, something that has caused harm to many people.

His actions should not be supported, and he should be charged with violation of gaming and gambling laws, he should also be kicked from his post of PM due to conflict of interest and ethics violations arising out of this escapade.

What law precisely did he break? If indeed he broke the law that you're aware of, it's your duty as a citizen to report it. I am not aware of any law that he may have violated. can you enumerate them?

[Born Free]

Since December 1969, in Canada Lotteries are governed under provincial jurisdiction. Canada has two national lotteries: Lotto 6/49, and Lotto Super 7 and there are a variety of other products marketed to adults.

These are administered by the Interprovincial Lottery Corporation, which is a consortium of the five regional lottery commissions, all of which are owned by their respective provincial and territorial governments:

Atlantic Lottery Corporation (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador)

Loto-Québec (Quebec)

Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (Ontario)

Western Canada Lottery Corporation (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Yukon Territory, Northwest Territories, Nunavut)

British Columbia Lottery Corporation (British Columbia)