Ahmadinejad:'Hated Israel will be annihalated'

[kimmy]

I see. So you're only a "stickler" for what's really being said when it's someone you support. Otherwise, what's really being said be damned. Got'cha.

No, I'm not placing much stock in semantics in this discussion. However, since you ARE, I think it's reasonable to point out that you're not being consistent about it.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps it's a mistranslation as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo

Supporters of Iran's religious dictatorship claim everything is a mistranslation, it seems. Mind you, they claim ICBMs and U-235 enrichment programs are also a mistranslation.

Meh...we'll find out someday, perhaps...possibly the hard way.

[kimmy]

Perhaps it's a mistranslation as well?

Well, this is the other reason not to get too hung up on semantics. Without an original language transcript and a native speaker to explain the connotations for us, it's hard to know if "regime" captures the spirit of the word he actually used, or if it was just a rough approximation.

As well, "regime" has taken on some amount of colloquialism-- ("the Bush regime was replaced by the Obama regime...") while in formal usage it is not just the people, but the whole form of government (the colonial regime was replaced by a republic.) And based on his previous statements, it seems very likely that's what Makmood is talking about. It fits with his previous statements about Israel-- "vanish from the pages of history..." "wiped off the map..." and while there's nothing here to suggest he's talking about annihilating the people of Israel, it seems highly likely that when he talks about "annihilating this regime" he means an end to the state of Israel.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Total semantics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIt0ExFiIBE

[KeyStone]

You mean there is a difference between:

We want to remove the current government and we want to kill every person in your country?

Looks the same to me. Pure semantics.

[DogOnPorch]

You mean there is a difference between:

We want to remove the current government and we want to kill every person in your country?

Looks the same to me. Pure semantics.

Well...that meant a whole lot of nothing. But, you did get to repeat the word 'semantics' for a third time. Let's see if Pat Sajak has a prize 4 U.

Bankrupt

[Guest American Woman]

I see what you're saying A.W.

I'm pleased to hear that.

I don't know if they would still call it Israel though if they got thier way, probably not. It would probably be named Palestine again. It wouldn't be recognized by many countries I'm sure but still.

I think it would lead to an even bigger mess then they have now as the arab countries surrounding Israe lwould probably end up fighting for pieces of it. Trying to annex it into thier own countries. Like Jordan and Syria or Leb. for example. I'm sure Egypt would be in there too.

As I said previously, I wouldn't want to be in Israel's position geographically. It's got to be tough and I can understand why they feel a fierce need to protect what they have; and of course it's more than a feeling, it's a necessity.

I'm not sure if other nations would end up fighting for pieces of it, though, since they don't seem to be in the thick of things helping Palestine in this conflict. I just hope it's something we'll never have to find out, as I'm sure Israel would get a lot of international support if push ever came to shove. I'm guessing Ahmadinejad knows this, too, and most likely (hopefully) is just a big talker.

I find it ironic that someone who supports Islamic rule would have a problem with Israel having a Zionist government, especially in an area dominated by Islamic rule.

But since the U.S. and Canada have separation of church and state, I don't think Jews would cease to be 'protected' if Israel ever chose to have such a separation and established a secular government; I don't think it would mean the end of Judaism any more than it's been the end of Christianity in our nations, and I think there are some Israelis who would prefer not to have a Zionist government, but that's a different topic (and has nothing to do with Ahmadinejad).

As it stands, I totally support Israel's right to exist under whatever type of government it choses. Always have, always will.

And again, I find it odd that this speech hasn't been picked up by the mainstream media.

Edited March 15, 2010 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

But since the U.S. and Canada have separation of church and state, I don't think Jews would cease to be 'protected' if Israel ever chose to have such a separation and established a secular government; I don't think it would mean the end of Judaism any more than it's been the end of Christianity in our nations, and I think there are some Israelis who would prefer not to have a Zionist government, but that's a different topic (and has nothing to do with Ahmadinejad).

AW: Israel already has a secular elected parlimentary democracy.

[Guest American Woman]

AW: Israel already has a secular elected parlimentary democracy.

My comment was in response to earlier posts in this thread:

If he wipes out the government do you think that Israel will remain a state that protects the Jewish people?

The Israeli "regime" is zionist by definition.

And from Wikipedia:

Revisionist Zionism evolved into the Likud Party in Israel, which has dominated most governments since 1977.

So Israel does not have separation of church and state, and isn't soley a 'secular' government; not in the way I was referring to.

[DogOnPorch]

Well, I suppose...but, if you draw that straw, one could say the same re: certain aspects of Canadian and US politics. Ever heard a Presidential candidate claim there was no God? I'm waiting...

[Guest American Woman]

Well, I suppose...but, if you draw that straw, one could say the same re: certain aspects of Canadian and US politics. Ever heard a Presidential candidate claim there was no God? I'm waiting...

I'm actually kind of waiting, too. To me there's too much "God" in our government. So yeah, in that regard I agree with you.

[DogOnPorch]

As I understand it, it is political death to say there is no God...so even an atheist Presidential candidate would have to grin and bear it.

[M.Dancer]

Not sure if I am following correctly but zionism is not analogous to religious judaism. There are at least as many secular zionists as non secular.

[Guest American Woman]

As I understand it, it is political death to say there is no God...so even an atheist Presidential candidate would have to grin and bear it.

I agree totally regarding the U.S. Do you think that's true in Canada, too?

[DogOnPorch]

I agree totally regarding the U.S. Do you think that's true in Canada, too?

To an extent. But Canadian politics is VERY much dominated by the main population centres (Van/Toronto/Mtrl/Ottawa) which are multicultural stews like LA and NYC. The so-called heartland has very little actual say.

[scorpio]

The so-called heartland has very little actual say.

Well, who put Harper in then?

[DogOnPorch]

Well, who put Harper in then?

You?

[GostHacked]

I for one would like regime change in Israel.

But for what Ahmadinejad is saying is pretty much this. He wants regime change in Israel. It is unfortunate that there is no separation of church and state in Israel so an attack on the Gov is an attack on the people. But that is how they made their bed. That is what Israel has become.

I don't support Israel and I really don't think it has the right to exist (anymore) but that does not mean I hate all Jews and want to kill them all. Some people are so blind in their support of one side that they can't distinguish any difference anywhere.

I keep saying that peace will come when one or the other is pushed out to the sea.

[Mr.Canada]

I for one would like regime change in Israel.

But for what Ahmadinejad is saying is pretty much this. He wants regime change in Israel. It is unfortunate that there is no separation of church and state in Israel so an attack on the Gov is an attack on the people. But that is how they made their bed. That is what Israel has become.

I don't support Israel and I really don't think it has the right to exist (anymore) but that does not mean I hate all Jews and want to kill them all. Some people are so blind in their support of one side that they can't distinguish any difference anywhere.

I keep saying that peace will come when one or the other is pushed out to the sea.

Israel is the Jewish homeland fortold for thousands of years yet denied until recently. Separation of "Church" and State is impossible due to many things I don't think I really need to go into at this time. Just about every Muslim nation surrounding Israel is basically run by the Imam's. Muslim Clerics make the laws and regularly stone people and behead and chop of limbs. They kill homosexuals in Iran for simply being homosexual, the hang them publicly.

None of which goes is government sanctioned in Israel.

Do you want separation of "Church" and State for them too? Or just for Israel?

So you're stating that a soverign democratic nation doesn't have the right to exist.

Why doesn't Israel have the right to exist?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Mr.Canada

[GostHacked]

Israel is the Jewish homeland fortold for thousands of years yet denied until recently. Separation of "Church" and State is impossible due to many things I don't think I really need to go into at this time. Just about every Muslim nation surrounding Israel is basically run by the Imam's. Muslim Clerics make the laws and regularly stone people and behead and chop of limbs. They kill homosexuals in Iran for simply being homosexual, the hang them publicly.

Well, Muslims do have their own problems as well, with running church and state as the same.

Do you want separation of "Church" and State for them too? Or just for Israel?

I'd like to see religion ditched as a whole in terms of governance and influence. I'd like to see this for everyone.

So you're stating that a soverign democratic nation doesn't have the right to exist.

Why doesn't Israel have the right to exist?

Well, that is for another thread I guess, but in a nutshell here it is:

I don't think it has the right to exist simply based on how it was created by people that did not have any ties to the land , religious or not in the first place. The UN mandate is to blame for the creation of Israel and all the problems that has existed in the area since then. Britain promised a whole whack of things to both sides, that never came to be and the region is still paying for those mistakes. And ever since the Holocaust the Jews have use that as much as they could to their advantage. Crying foul and bringing up the death camps when people criticize Israel and her actions. The two are not even connected anymore. Then when someone claims this, they are labeled as anti-sematic and a jew hater, which strengthens my notion of them playing victim when it suits them.

We all talk about the here and now without talking about how Israel was created in the first place. I know that many don't share my view and that's is fine by me. And I know people will bring up the ancient ties to the land, but get over it, because this is what the Palestinians are told whenever they make such claims.. 'get over it'.

I know you won't accept my reasoning and that is cool, but I won't apologize for my position on Israel. I know this will result in a slew of negative responses, but I don't think I can speak my mind without attracting that kind of attention on this matter. It's a touchy subject for most and many think with their emotions instead of their brains.

[M.Dancer]

I don't think it has the right to exist simply based on how it was created by people that did not have any ties to the land , religious or not in the first place.

But you are wrong. There has been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel even before the Arabs arrived. As well there has been a Christian, Greek and european presence since before the dawn of Islam. And the governing Authority which were the legal heirs to the Ottomans had been in the Trans-Jordan before most of the combatants were born.

The UN mandate is to blame for the creation of Israel and all the problems that has existed in the area since then.

I think a fair amont of blame has to be parceled out to those who decided that the Jews would get nothing, not even legal title to the lands they owned.

And ever since the Holocaust the Jews have use that as much as they could to their advantage. Crying foul and bringing up the death camps when people criticize Israel and her actions.

Are you talking jews, Jews, Israelis or pretend jew like the recently Catholic Me.Canada?

Can you show one instance of an authoritative voice bringing up death camps in relation to criticism of Israel?

The two are not even connected anymore. Then when someone claims this, they are labeled as anti-sematic and a jew hater, which strengthens my notion of them playing victim when it suits them.

I think you are imagining things...

And I know people will bring up the ancient ties to the land, but get over it, because this is what the Palestinians are told whenever they make such claims.. 'get over it'.

What? Like this:

I don't think it has the right to exist simply based on how it was created by people that did not have any ties to the land , religious or not in the first place.

I know you won't accept my reasoning and that is cool, but I won't apologize for my position on Israel. I know this will result in a slew of negative responses, but I don't think I can speak my mind without attracting that kind of attention on this matter. It's a touchy subject for most and many think with their emotions instead of their brains.

I think you are being emotional...

Edited March 16, 2010 by M.Dancer

[Shady]

I keep saying that peace will come when one or the other is pushed out to the sea.

I tend to agree. Israel could manage that tommorrow, but the rest of the world wouldn't allow it.

[GostHacked]

But you are wrong. There has been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel even before the Arabs arrived. As well there has been a Christian, Greek and european presence since before the dawn of Islam. And the governing Authority which were the legal heirs to the Ottomans had been in the Trans-Jordan before most of the combatants were born.

I am not saying there never has been a Jewish presence in the area.

I think a fair amont of blame has to be parceled out to those who decided that the Jews would get nothing, not even legal title to the lands they owned.

And it seems we now have a reversal of that. Palestinians don't seem to have rights in their own land.

Are you talking jews, Jews, Israelis or pretend jew like the recently Catholic Me.Canada?

With some rhetoric on both sides, you'd think there is no difference.

Can you show one instance of an authoritative voice bringing up death camps in relation to criticism of Israel?

A quick search garners me this. An article from Hareets in 2006.

This quote is not perfect for my argument, but it hold some water to me.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/787766.html

LOS ANGELES - Drawing a direct analogy between Iran and Nazi Germany, Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu asserted Monday that the Iranian nuclear program posed a threat not only to Israel, but to the entire western world. There was "still time," however, to prevent Tehran from acquiring nuclear weapons, he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58N5GK20090924

"Yesterday, the man who called the Holocaust a lie spoke from this podium," Netanyahu said in an address to the U.N. General Assembly.

......

In his speech on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad accused Israel of "inhuman policies" in the Palestinian territories and suggested that Jews dominated world political and economic affairs.

Netanyahu called the Iranian leader's remarks a "systematic assault on the truth" and accused him of "spewing ... anti-Semitic remarks."

I can find more.

[M.Dancer]

I am not saying there never has been a Jewish presence in the area.

No but you did say this:

I don't think it has the right to exist simply based on how it was created by people that did not have any ties to the land

And it seems we now have a reversal of that. Palestinians don't seem to have rights in their own land.

The rights of Palestinians in the Palestinian Authority is not an Israeli issue.

A quick search garners me this. An article from Hareets in 2006.

This quote is not perfect for my argument, but it hold some water to me.

I can find more.

You are right, the quotes are not perfect for your argument and no doubt there are many far less than perfect quotes to be found.

[DogOnPorch]

Netanyahu called the Iranian leader's remarks a "systematic assault on the truth" and accused him of "spewing ... anti-Semitic remarks."

And Netanyahu was correct.