Can't compete with immigrants.

[Bonam]

They are unpatriotic scum. They choose to put foreign workers ahead of nuturing and building skills of Canadians. Inflicting unemployment on Canadians and then turning around critizing the Canadians resume is abuse. As Spock has said (human scripwriters, for the reality challenged), evil cannot persist without followers. Evil is certainly flourishing in the Ranks of Corporate America. I have evaluated Religion, History, and Contempory culture (Television) to know with absolute Certainty that the evil have no basis, and their time of polluting the space of life is numbered. The Afflicted Canadian has to stand firm against these corporate scum and persist forward. Let the vain scum enjoy their vanity and fleeting heaven, they will get what they deserve: ABSOLUTE OBLITERATION.

It is not the job of companies to be patriotic or to nurture Canadians. Private enterprise is there to make a profit. If they can hire people that are qualified to do a certain job but will accept being payed less money, then it is simply the most logical course of action for them to do so. Problems with excessive immigration are something that can be addressed at the government level, by reducing immigration targets. But companies are just doing what they do to make a profit, which is exactly what they are supposed to do to create an efficient market.

[Michael Hardner]

They are unpatriotic scum. They choose to put foreign workers ahead of nuturing and building skills of Canadians. Inflicting unemployment on Canadians and then turning around critizing the Canadians resume is abuse. As Spock has said (human scripwriters, for the reality challenged), evil cannot persist without followers. Evil is certainly flourishing in the Ranks of Corporate America. I have evaluated Religion, History, and Contempory culture (Television) to know with absolute Certainty that the evil have no basis, and their time of polluting the space of life is numbered. The Afflicted Canadian has to stand firm against these corporate scum and persist forward. Let the vain scum enjoy their vanity and fleeting heaven, they will get what they deserve: ABSOLUTE OBLITERATION.

Spending your money in order to benefit Canadians is a fine thing if you want to do it. Most people do not do this, however, and there are better ways to assist Canadians than to subsidize labour markets that are otherwise doomed. Is everybody that shops at WalMart evil ? What about those who buy foreign cars, or who use banks that use offshore talent ? Let the business world take care of itself. These changes put more money into the system, so let's find things for people to do that can make use of that money.

And... Spock was an idiot.

[whowhere]

It is not the job of companies to be patriotic or to nurture Canadians. Private enterprise is there to make a profit. If they can hire people that are qualified to do a certain job but will accept being payed less money, then it is simply the most logical course of action for them to do so. Problems with excessive immigration are something that can be addressed at the government level, by reducing immigration targets. But companies are just doing what they do to make a profit, which is exactly what they are supposed to do to create an efficient market.

I am not sure where you are conjuring up support for those ideals. As one who's lineage traces to the Romans and having had my life seared by the judeo/christian doctrine you are in contempt of Roman Principles and you are inconsistent with the judeo/Christian doctrine. In Roman Times, Rome enslaved and extracted the wealth of other countries for the benefit of Roman Citizens. The judeo/Christian doctrine is about Good/Evil - Right/Wrong. To understand the difference takes logic and reasoning. That of which the followers of Evil apparently lack in abundance. For a Canadian to be put below immigrants is Sacrilege to Roman Fundamentals.

[whowhere]

Spending your money in order to benefit Canadians is a fine thing if you want to do it. Most people do not do this, however, and there are better ways to assist Canadians than to subsidize labour markets that are otherwise doomed. Is everybody that shops at WalMart evil ? What about those who buy foreign cars, or who use banks that use offshore talent ? Let the business world take care of itself. These changes put more money into the system, so let's find things for people to do that can make use of that money.

And... Spock was an idiot.

Gene Roddenberry an Idiot? His work will be watched and admired for centuries to come. As for the followers of evil, another 70 years at best. Afterwhich the space of life will be purged and will be a whole lot cleaner.

[blueblood]

BRAVO!! Excellent post and finally someone understands why immigration is really happening.

It's like.. how can you be an active member in Canada and NOT see these things happening. They are just a DAILY occurance here. It's part of living here. Most people on the forums are simply in another planet.

It is senseless for me to be competing with hundreds of immigrants for a job. All that does is cause my resume to get lost in the mix. I have not got 1 call back.

Why the hell do we feel a need to let these aliens in from other countries and give them jobs that belong to Canadians? People abroad feel Canada is some sort of right of passage. And the thing is, these pople DO GET HIRED.

Yes most are indolents, but there are many that are in the job market and simply take jobs. They are NOT required to be here and I was certainly NEVER asked if they should be here.

Oh looky here, jobs!!

Western producer classifieds

[Guest TrueMetis]

I am not sure where you are conjuring up support for those ideals. As one who's lineage traces to the Romans and having had my life seared by the judeo/christian doctrine you are in contempt of Roman Principles and you are inconsistent with the judeo/Christian doctrine. In Roman Times, Rome enslaved and extracted the wealth of other countries for the benefit of Roman Citizens. The judeo/Christian doctrine is about Good/Evil - Right/Wrong. To understand the difference takes logic and reasoning. That of which the followers of Evil apparently lack in abundance. For a Canadian to be put below immigrants is Sacrilege to Roman Fundamentals.

Good thing we aren't Roman.

[Bonam]

I am not sure where you are conjuring up support for those ideals. As one who's lineage traces to the Romans and having had my life seared by the judeo/christian doctrine you are in contempt of Roman Principles and you are inconsistent with the judeo/Christian doctrine. In Roman Times, Rome enslaved and extracted the wealth of other countries for the benefit of Roman Citizens. The judeo/Christian doctrine is about Good/Evil - Right/Wrong. To understand the difference takes logic and reasoning. That of which the followers of Evil apparently lack in abundance. For a Canadian to be put below immigrants is Sacrilege to Roman Fundamentals.

I am not a Roman and do not particularly care about doctrines founded on irrational belief in magical beings.

[whowhere]

I am not a Roman and do not particularly care about doctrines founded on irrational belief in magical beings.

It is conjecture. Nonetheless evil is defined. Your actions reveal what you are. Life is not magical you are in it! Not real enough for you? Like Charter Rights the world is an illusion and you are not really here? Not to worry you and your following brother's wishes will be granted soon enough.

[Bonam]

It is conjecture. Nonetheless evil is defined.

Evil exists, sure. But the Christian definition of evil is far from the same as my definition would be.

Your actions reveal what you are. Life is not magical you are in it!

Indeed, life is not magical. But the religions you mention are based on a belief in magical entities, which I do not share.

Not real enough for you? Like Charter Rights the world is an illusion and you are not really here? Not to worry you and your following brother's wishes will be granted soon enough.

No, actually the belief that the world is illusion is about as far away from what I hold to be the case as you can get. I hold that existence exists and that you can perceive the reality of the world through your senses and understand it through your faculty of reason.

[Michael Hardner]

Gene Roddenberry an Idiot? His work will be watched and admired for centuries to come.

No, "Spock" was an idiot. That's why Roddenberry made his name rhyme with "sock" and "jock". If Star Trek were Friends, Spock would be Joey.

[wyly]

spock? gene roddenberry? Star trek? Sacrilege to Roman Fundamentals? ABSOLUTE OBLITERATION! what is this guy talking about???

[bloodyminded]

And these immigrants are competing for those same jobs. Why should immigrants get the gravy? Immigrants drive down working conditions,

How do they "drive down working conditions"?

wages

Excuse me...but this is servility-to-power at its fundamental level. Servility-to-power is arguably your very premise here. It is the employer who "drives down the wages"...not the person working for the employer.

This kind of worldview insists that nothing can ever be the fault of the wealthy and powerful on an institutional level. No, they are utterly without agency, control, decisions. It's always the fault of those with less.

Awesome. I believe this is roughly the view espoused by Satanists and Scientologists as well.

[whowhere]

spock? gene roddenberry? Star trek? Sacrilege to Roman Fundamentals? ABSOLUTE OBLITERATION! what is this guy talking about???

Your fleeting pollution of life, evil follower.

[whowhere]

How do they "drive down working conditions"?

Excuse me...but this is servility-to-power at its fundamental level. Servility-to-power is arguably your very premise here. It is the employer who "drives down the wages"...not the person working for the employer.

This kind of worldview insists that nothing can ever be the fault of the wealthy and powerful on an institutional level. No, they are utterly without agency, control, decisions. It's always the fault of those with less.

Awesome. I believe this is roughly the view espoused by Satanists and Scientologists as well.

An oversupply of people available for a job drives down wages. NO country in the world opens their doors and allows a person from another Country to openly compete for jobs with the citizens of their country. Canada is contemptous in that regard. Immigrants are enjoying a lifestyle and opportunites at the expense of Canadians. As for your post, it was senseless.

[bloodyminded]

An oversupply of people available for a job drives down wages. NO country in the world opens their doors and allows a person from another Country to openly compete for jobs with the citizens of their country. Canada is contemptous in that regard. Immigrants are enjoying a lifestyle and opportunites at the expense of Canadians. As for your post, it was senseless.

Not senseless. You say wages are low...because of the human beings willing to work for less money.

But it is the employers' choice to pay them less money. They're not forced by God to pay less money.

If you wish to lay blame, lay it at the feet of the employers. Not the employees. It's ALL the employers' fault.

[Michael Hardner]

An oversupply of people available for a job drives down wages. NO country in the world opens their doors and allows a person from another Country to openly compete for jobs with the citizens of their country. Canada is contemptous in that regard. Immigrants are enjoying a lifestyle and opportunites at the expense of Canadians. As for your post, it was senseless.

You just stated that no country drives down its wages. Senseless post ?

[whowhere]

Not senseless. You say wages are low...because of the human beings willing to work for less money.

But it is the employers' choice to pay them less money. They're not forced by God to pay less money.

If you wish to lay blame, lay it at the feet of the employers. Not the employees. It's ALL the employers' fault.

Did I not call the Hiring Managers and HR corporate scum? Who is this God you are talking about? What does a God have to do with the corruption of people except to Obliterate them after they have reached the Gate of Death? As for willing to work for less money? If you, a Canadian won't work for less money, perhaps you will work for less money with the Immigrant Gun held to your head? If you won't work, the conservatives and Liberals have brought in an onslaught of immigrants who will work for less money. As for the Employer you are Right, they make the choice to pay you the Canadian the same as the immigrant. Greed knows no bounds. All I am saying is world conjecture does not platform these Corporate scum. They do so at their own demise.

[whowhere]

You just stated that no country drives down its wages. Senseless post ?

Is that what I said? I suggest you try harder to understand.

[bloodyminded]

Did I not call the Hiring Managers and HR corporate scum? Who is this God you are talking about? What does a God have to do with the corruption of people except to Obliterate them after they have reached the Gate of Death? As for willing to work for less money? If you, a Canadian won't work for less money, perhaps you will work for less money with the Immigrant Gun held to your head? If you won't work, the conservatives and Liberals have brought in an onslaught of immigrants who will work for less money. As for the Employer you are Right, they make the choice to pay you the Canadian the same as the immigrant. Greed knows no bounds. All I am saying is world conjecture does not platform these Corporate scum. They do so at their own demise.

Exactly. Greed knows no bounds.

The people willing to work for lower wages are not greedy. The owners, bosses, managers, CEO's...it's all up to them.

So stop blaming the immigrants. They're not to blame.

[Argus]

Hey Mikedavid00,

You should apply to the OPP. I here they have an opening north of London. Some guy name Vu Pham was felled in the line of duty. No doubt because he was lazy and inarticulate... Not. People like you make me sick.

Well, with an opening like that I know better than to expect anything intelligent to follow.

Not too long ago, I was on a board that promoted a recently hired black woman in an internal competition. Her test score was the highest ever registered in the 3 years the test has existed and at the interview, she nailed every question. Add to this her superior performance in all measured variables in the work place; she made it an easy decision to offer her the job because she earned it.

On a Friday night two weeks after the announcement was made, I was at a pub where a number of subordinates often gather. One of them had the temerity to come right up to me and vocally proclaim that the spot was awarded "to satisfy diversity in the workplace" for the benefit of a wide audience. As the room stood still my mind raced as the professional in me screamed IGNORE while the humanist in me demanded a retort such as: "if diversity were our primary concern, we'd let you go as we already have too many assholes". But I managed to compromise and state: "you are entitled to your uniformed opinion."

It's both amusing and pathetic that you don't even understand how revealing this is about your lack of competence at your organization. On a board? Why on earth would a person with such a tightly constricted mindset as you display be appointed to a board of any kind?

First, let me be the one to sadden you by reporting that feelings such as this employee expressed are extremely common among whites, especialy in large organizations. Especially when those organizations are mismanaged, as yours appears to be. Most of us have plenty of experience, in fact, with colleages who are universally believed to be incompetent but either left in place or promoted because they are useful in satisfying equity quotas, or because management is afraid of accusations should they be disciplined or dismissed.

Second, the way to address such concerns at your organization is to make it clear the value the organization places on competence - presuming that is the case - and the lack of importance equity measures have in promotion - presming that is so. Had you instead informed the "subordinate" unfortunate enough to have worked for you of the reasons for the promotion that could have acted to defuse what is likely to be a common feeling among your employees. Where one is angry enough to actually say it aloud to a person in authority you can be certain many feel it. Instead of doing anything to defuse this, to inform employees of the true reasons, you acted like an asshole and merely fueled resentment towards management. Good job, sparky! And who hired YOU, I wonder, and whyever did they?

Last week, the individual was suspended subject to a hearing (read: fired) after calling the promoted woman a "coon" in public. I, for one, will not miss him.

Perhaps not, but I rather doubt his resentment of this woman will leave with him. Others might be more careful - or more sophisticated - in the expression of that resenment, especially gien an arrogant management which apparently has no real communication with them, but that promoted woman will have to live with the suspicion she her main skill is her skin pigmentation because you are too incompetent to have dealt properly with the situtation.

[Argus]

I have encountered many examples of both of those scenarios (the good and the bad) from both Canadians and immigrants. If you want to make a definitive statement about work habits of certain groups, you need statistical evidence, or, lacking that, a well reasoned theory of why you believe your statement to be true. Anecdotal evidence, on the other hand, is not sufficient, as can be clearly seen by the contradiction between your and wyly's experiences with immigrants.

Statisical information of immigrant illiteracy is widely available. Just google it. There have been a number of government and non-government reports to this effect over the past several years. I have posted several, one as recently as yesterday.

[Argus]

This is called a labour market. In other words, the job goes to the lowest bidder. You can complain about it, but how often do you go into a store and voluntarily pay more than you have to ? Furthermore, HR and hiring managers are not "scum" if they're just hiring within the budgets they have been given.

Perhaps pungently put, but the fact remains there have been innumerable reported instances whereby IT companies have made little or no effort at hiring locals, have lied about it in order to justify importing workers from other countries, and then have paid those workers considerably less than the going rate in both Canada and the US for their services. From the standpoint of the working man it's not difficult to understand why this is looked upon with something less than fondness.

[mikedavid00]

An oversupply of people available for a job drives down wages. NO country in the world opens their doors and allows a person from another Country to openly compete for jobs with the citizens of their country. Canada is contemptous in that regard. Immigrants are enjoying a lifestyle and opportunites at the expense of Canadians. As for your post, it was senseless.

YES I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THIS FOR YEARS. THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

Such a SIMPLE concept of supply and demand. And it's like WOW, they JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND my #1 reason for apposing immigration (besides all the other secondary problems).

It's SO FRUSTRATING trying to speak with people on this forum because they act so intellectual, well read, and smart, yet they DON'T GET the most simplest of concepts like supply and demand.

[Mr.Canada]

YES I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THIS FOR YEARS. THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

Such a SIMPLE concept of supply and demand. And it's like WOW, they JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND my #1 reason for apposing immigration (besides all the other secondary problems).

It's SO FRUSTRATING trying to speak with people on this forum because they act so intellectual, well read, and smart, yet they DON'T GET the most simplest of concepts like supply and demand.

I understand your point but many people on this board have the view that mass immigration is good because more people in Canada creates more jobs or something like this.

So their pov will always reflect this. I have the same pov as you do on this issue and have said so on this board many times but have given up trying to convince anyone o nthis board so I've given up on it which is why I have been silent in this topic.

Illegitimi non carborundum

[bloodyminded]

Perhaps pungently put, but the fact remains there have been innumerable reported instances whereby IT companies have made little or no effort at hiring locals, have lied about it in order to justify importing workers from other countries, and then have paid those workers considerably less than the going rate in both Canada and the US for their services. From the standpoint of the working man it's not difficult to understand why this is looked upon with something less than fondness.

But any person, "working man" or otherwise, should be able to divorce his own bigotries from an objective truth or two. It's one thing to look upon the practice under discussion here with hostility; it's quite another thing to consider the other workers (also "working men") to be "scum." Interestingly, the employers in question, while certainly held up to disapprobation, are often critiqued as an afterthought: sure, the employers are responsible...but let's expel our real ire on to the lower-wage immigrants hired by these employers.

But you're right, it's not difficult to understand; it's ordinary, old-fashioned bigotry.

Edited March 12, 2010 by bloodyminded