bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Which as explained above has absolutely no relevance to the discussion of which is better, because the average 'American' cannot take advantage of the benefits of the Canadian system. One could argue they can't take advantage of the American one either. The relevance is for this and any of the other penis measuring contests we have here at MLW. If Canada wants to win the ratio category, then it can lose the same way. What can the US system brag about exactly? That if you are rich you can live? The Canadian system has PLENTY to brag about, the main being that the MAJORITY of Canadians can take advantage of it. You're right, many with CASH can brag, unfortunately, in both nations, that MANY is in the MINORITY. And they call Liberals elitists Canada can brag about wait times....longest. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 BTW, you can buy wait time insurance in Canada. What a curious product....I wonder if I can trade in Canadian wait time futures too? LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 The reality is, the US has the least efficient system in the world. Ours needs to improve, but that is in no way our model. The reality is that Canada has the most expensive universal access system in the world....the absolute worst example for cost...which keep growing. Doctors and nurses continue to flee south. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 they have the same MD shortage we do add the estimated 45 million with no healthcare to their system and we'll see how cope with that... If you wanna talk about myths, you can start with the ridiculous figure of 45 million with no healthcare. As I've already stated, they have access to free emergency room healthcare, anytime of the day. But the 45 million number is completely false. Of that number, 6 million are illegal aliens. 5 million are legal immigrants such as people in the country on VISAs, etc. 10 million more are people who can afford health insurance, but choose not to. Young people for instance. Another 10 million people are eligible for existing healthcare programs, but for whatever reasons, maybe they don't know, haven't signed up. These programs include Medicare, Medicaid, Children's Health Insurance Program, etc. Now add another 5 million people who switch jobs during the year, so for a few days, or a weekend, etc, they're technically not on a health insurance plan until they start their new job. You add that up, and you're left with something like 10 million people who can't or don't have access to health insurance. Quote
Shady Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 The reality is that Canada has the most expensive universal access system in the world....the absolute worst example for cost...which keep growing. Doctors and nurses continue to flee south. No, the worst example for costs is Britain. But unfortunately we're getting there. Quote
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 The reality is that Canada has the most expensive universal access system in the world....the absolute worst example for cost...which keep growing. I don't think that's completely true anymore, but there are a number of reasons for the high cost here. Something certainly has to be done, but, your county is facing the exact same problem, only worse. Doctors and nurses continue to flee south. In dwindling numbers. We have growing medical employment in this country. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I don't think that's completely true anymore, but there are a number of reasons for the high cost here. Something certainly has to be done, but, your county is facing the exact same problem, only worse. The US does not have a universal access system....single payer components are targeted at seniors, veterans, the poor, children, and the disabled. The rest is a regulated market....not CommieCare. Health care is not a right....not even in Canada. In dwindling numbers. We have growing medical employment in this country. Sure...by recruiting and hijacking medical professionals from other nations (e.g. India, Philippines, South Africa)...who wait a spell before going to the promised land! The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now. Edited March 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 I don't know. But I'm not advocating for an American style system. However, if I want to purchase private health insurance, and get treatment at private clinics, I think I should have that choice. But my response was to the accusation that one could wait forever if they don't have the money. That's not true. If you go to the hospital, and require some type of surgery right away, you get it. Whether you can pay or not. Which is one of the reasons for rising premiums in the US. I'm just stating a fact. so am I, do a web search of americans who are waiting indefinitely for surgery, or those rejected becuase of pre existing conditions, those whose coverage has run out it's not hard to find if you look for it...why do you think there is such a debate on health care in the US right now if their system is so great? they have a problem... our Canadian healthcare debate is on how to improve our health system not replace it... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 The US does not have a universal access system....single payer components are targeted at seniors, veterans, the poor, children, and the disabled. The rest is a regulated market....not CommieCare. Health care is not a right....not even in Canada. Again, you fail to make any real points. Throwing out the word commie and trying to deflect from rising health costs (for government, insurance companies, and individuals) doesn't help you. The reality is, the US, just like Canada, and most of the world, has a cost problem. The reality is, the end payer is the one who has to cover the cost, whether it be through taxes, insurance premiums, or out of pocket costs. That is the reality, and it's affecting Americans just as much as Canadians if not more. Sure...by recruiting and hijacking medical professionals from other nations (e.g. India, Philippines, South Africa)...who wait a spell before going to the promised land! The number of Canadians going to the "promise land" isn't nearly as high as you make out. The same goes for immigrants to Canada. Some do leave, but the vast majority stay, because they realize where the real promise land is. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 from your post not mine, 6 million in 2010, that's about 2%.... That's a forecast, not an actual figure, and it doesn't even say where that number came from; what it was derived on. If you want to compare Canada's "latest" numbers, then compare it to our latest numbers. If you want to compare forecasts, fine. But you can't compare a forecast for the future with a number from who knows when. .1% of Canadians seek care in the USA I don't see any link of yours disputing it... a simple google will find it for you but we all know you don't want to find it do you... You made the claim. YOU back it up. If I wasted my time googling everything that came off the top of people's heads in this forum I'd be a fool, especially if I wasted my time trying to find something that doesn't exist. Since you made the claim, you should have a source. But surprise, surprise. Evidently you don't. It's just like the original post, claiming that the article said "a smaller percentage" of Canadians seek care in the U.S., when it said no such thing. Comparing numbers, when one has a population ten times greater than the other, is ridiculous. Comparing numbers to Americans who seek health care anywhere outside the U.S. to Canadians who seek it only in the U.S. is even more ridiculous. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Again, you fail to make any real points. Then why do you keep responding like a stuck pig? The number of Canadians going to the "promise land" isn't nearly as high as you make out. The same goes for immigrants to Canada. Some do leave, but the vast majority stay, because they realize where the real promise land is. The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now. Canada has no equivalent experience with citizens dying from lack of insurance. Have fund with your medical professionals who continue to leave Canada in ever dwindling numbers. Quote
Shady Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 why do you think there is such a debate on health care in the US right now if their system is so great? I've never claimed that their system is "so great." I'm just stating facts. But the biggest reason there's a healthcare debate in the US right now, is because Obama has chosen this particular time to push reform. However, if you look at any polls, the vast majority of people polled have health insurance, and of that group, some 80% are happy or satisfied with it. Instead of just focusing on people without insurance, Obama's attempting to change healthcare for people who already have it and like it. That's why he's running into a brick wall, time after time after time. Quote
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Then why do you keep responding I'm trying to find out if your here to make an actual point rather than just display your insecurities about your country and its health system. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Canada has no equivalent experience with citizens dying from lack of insurance. Have fund with your medical professionals who continue to leave Canada in ever dwindling numbers. ...and they will continue to leave, because there are better opportunities for them in America...as always. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) However, if you look at any polls, the vast majority of people polled have health insurance, and of that group, some 80% are happy or satisfied with it. So what do you think about the fact that about the same percentage of Canadians are satisfied with our system? Edited March 10, 2010 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 ...and they will continue to leave, because there are better opportunities for them in America...as always. And the number of them that leave will continue to shrink, as pay and benefits continue to increase in Canada. I suppose you'll have to find a new source for medial professionals. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 I'm trying to find out if your here to make an actual point rather than just display your insecurities about your country and its health system. I am here mostly for my own entertainment....and nothing is more fun than a homer like you who thinks frinkin' Winnipeg is the center of the goddamn universe for medical care...and hockey! LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 And the number of them that leave will continue to shrink, as pay and benefits continue to increase in Canada. I suppose you'll have to find a new source for medial professionals. ....but you are still losing this math problem...see "limit theory". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
wyly Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 You made the claim. YOU back it up. If I wasted my time googling everything that came off the top of people's heads in this forum I'd be a fool, especially if I wasted my time trying to find something that doesn't exist. Since you made the claim, you should have a source. But surprise, surprise. Evidently you don't. I came up with .1% off the top of my head, that's a strange choice for a random guess, the point here is you bury your head in the sand, you don't want to know as CrazeeEddie already linked to a source but you prefer to close your eyes and go into denial...It's just like the original post, claiming that the article said "a smaller percentage" of Canadians seek care in the U.S., when it said no such thing. Comparing numbers, when one has a population ten times greater than the other, is ridiculous. Comparing numbers to Americans who seek health care anywhere outside the U.S. to Canadians who seek it only in the U.S. is even more ridiculous.ya it is ridiculous to compare, americans seeking healthcare elsewhere far outnumber Canadians doing so...but you go ahead and keep up the denial if it helps you sleep better... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Shady Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 ...and they will continue to leave, because there are better opportunities for them in America...as always. Not if Barack Obama has his way. While we're looking for more ways to use private enterprise in our system, he's going in the other direction. It's more than ironic. Quote
Shady Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 So what do you think about the fact that about the same percentage of Canadians are satisfied with our system? Probably. Which is why you'd see the same kind of push back if one tried to completely change things for people in Canada. Quote
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 a homer like you who thinks frinkin' Winnipeg is the center of the goddamn universe for medical care Winnipeg isn't the centre of the universe for anything. It is the medical centre for Manitoba, Northwestern Ontario, and Nunavut. There are similar waits in major centres across the country. I'm simply using what I know as an example. Hockey is irrelevant to the discussion, but you already know that. ....but you are still losing this math problem...see "limit theory". We have more than enough professionals coming in to replace any small losses. Nothing is more fun than watching you display all of your insecurities to the entire board. I just hope you aren't one of the medical tourists that frequently commits fraud against OHIP. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Not if Barack Obama has his way. While we're looking for more ways to use private enterprise in our system, he's going in the other direction. It's more than ironic. Obama has fallen short so far with a majority in Congress...hell, even Bush did better with Medicare Part D. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Winnipeg isn't the centre of the universe for anything. It is the medical centre for Manitoba, Northwestern Ontario, and Nunavut. There are similar waits in major centres across the country. I'm simply using what I know as an example. Hockey is irrelevant to the discussion, but you already know that. Fair enough...you're only 21 years old. But I hope you get your hockey team soon! We have more than enough professionals coming in to replace any small losses. The United States has no equivalent experience with doctors fleeing the country in such large numbers...before...or now. Nothing is more fun than watching you display all of your insecurities to the entire board. I just hope you aren't one of the medical tourists that frequently commits fraud against OHIP. No need for that...I can drive to the Mayo Clinic in about one hour....no need to fly in on your dime like PM Chretien! LOL! :) Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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