Sarah Palin crossed border to Use Government Run Healthcare

[bush_cheney2004]

Again, I'd appreicate a source. Quite frankly, I don't believe that's true.

That's because it's not true. But we are not allowed to cite the Fraser Institute!

[Guest American Woman]

That's because it's not true. But we are not allowed to cite the Fraser Institute!

I must have missed something somewhere along the line. Why aren't we allowed to cite the Fraser Institute?

[bush_cheney2004]

I must have missed something somewhere along the line. Why aren't we allowed to cite the Fraser Institute?

Nope, 'cause it's a bastion for right wing neo-con economic theory! There shall also be no discussion of marginal tax rates, GST, PST, or excessive fees and surcharges (i.e. property title transfers).

Canadians I work with consistently report that rising income is directly proportional to the desire to flee south for lower taxes.

[Smallc]

I'm interested in your source. Everything I find says Americans make more before taxes.

Canada’s income per capita fell in 2008.

The income gap between Canada and the U.S.—$6,400 per person in 2008—is double what it was in 1984. link

You are confusing two different numbers. the link you have brought forward is talking about per capita GDP, and not salary. Also, that is PPP GDP, a number that is used less than nominal GDP. The US is higher than Canada in both, but in terms of nominal GDP, the difference is almost nonexistent given the current exchange rate. The exchange rate that was unfavourable to Canada in 2008 also explains the PPP number you provided.

Again, I'd appreicate a source. Quite frankly, I don't believe that's true.

Someone from my community lives in Montana. They used the CRA online calculator to see what their deductions would be here. I'm not sure how much they were making, but even in Manitoba, with one of the countries highest tax rates, the difference was only $30 every two weeks.

I suppose you could use your own salary to check the difference for yourself. US income tax rates are very similar to Canadian income tax rates at the federal level. Beyond that, it depends which province or state you live in. Quebec really screws with our average. Where you pay more in Canada is at the high end (and that is only at the provincial level).

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/pdoc/

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

http://www.revenu.gouv.qc.ca/en/citoyen/impots/rens_comp/taux.aspx

This is from 1999, when taxes were higher in both countries:

http://www.canadiansocialresearch.net/taxes.htm

US rates (including coming increases) for comparison. What makes the differences is the lower state rates, but that does not take into consideration the differences in service. If I were living in Alberta, talking simply about taxes, I would have paid as much in total tax (both federal and provincial) as I would have paid in the US federal tax alone:

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf

[Smallc]

Canadian and US weekly earnings:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/05/01/wages-recession-canada-us.html

[Guest American Woman]

You are confusing two different numbers. the link you have brought forward is talking about per capita GDP, and not salary.

So prove me wrong. What source are you looking at that says Canadians' salaries are higher than Americans' before taxes? What is the average income in Canada and the United States?

Someone from my community lives in Montana. They used the CRA online calculator to see what their deductions would be here. I'm not sure how much they were making, but even in Manitoba, with one of the countries highest tax rates, the difference was only $30 every two weeks.

I suppose you could use your own salary to check the difference for yourself. US income tax rates are very similar to Canadian income tax rates at the federal level. Beyond that, it depends which province or state you live in.

I'm not referring only to federal income/state taxes; I'm talking total taxes. You pay a much higher tax on purchases than we do here in the states, and that is a tax that you have to pay, that comes out of your pocket.

If I were living in Alberta, talking simply about taxes, I would have paid as much in total tax (both federal and provincial) as I would have paid in the US federal tax alone:

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf

You know what your taxable income would be in the U.S., claiming all of your deductions? Or did you just put your salary in and conclude that's what your taxes would be?

But again, I'm not just talking income taxes. You have more/much higher taxes on gas/purchases other than groceries/dining out/etc., which adds up to a significant amount.

Edited March 13, 2010 by American Woman

[Born Free]

Let us not forget that Canada has those irreplaceable government run "Death Panels".

Have any of you seen the former Surgeon General C. Everett Kook's (Oops! I meant Koop) health care commercial spreading complete lies about the UK health care system?

It must be very difficult for the average US citizen to make a knowledgable decision about health care reform when people in the high places are speading large amounts of disinformation.

When people show up at meeting shouting "Keep Your Goddamn Government Hands Off My Medicare!", it kinda makes one wonder if these people should be allowed to vote...

Oh well..........

[Smallc]

Yes, we definitely have other taxes that you don't, but strictly looking at income, the difference is now non existent. I posted the salary difference above.

When looking at all the taxes in the economy, Canadians pay 33% and Americans pay 28%. Those are number from the OECD and the Heritage Foundation. Also, the link from 1999 I gave you shows that the difference is about 5% for individuals, all taxes included. That still sounds about right to me....if you take health insurance into account, I'm not sure that there would be a difference in most provinces anymore.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Canada and US weekly earnings, presented in full:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/100225/t100225a1-eng.htm

http://www.bsu.edu/ibb/us/emp/emp3.htm

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, we definitely have other taxes that you don't, but strictly looking at income, the difference is now non existent. I posted the salary difference above.

I saw that after I made my post, but one month's comparison, with no sources as to how those figures were derived, what they're based on, really doesn't tell me anything regarding the overall picture.

And again, because of your higher taxes, a higher percentage of our salary is "disposable income."

[Smallc]

And again, because of your higher taxes, a higher percentage of our salary is "disposable income."

And because most helathcare costs are already rolled into those taxes in Canada's case, it isn't really a fair comparison. Part of your disposable income (probably a large chunk) goes to buying insurance.

[Smallc]

Disposable income gap narrowing:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2009/09/c4320.html

[Guest American Woman]

And because most helathcare costs are already rolled into those taxes in Canada's case, it isn't really a fair comparison. Part of your disposable income (probably a large chunk) goes to buying insurance.

Your comparisons aren't "fair" either. For one thing, many people in the U.S. have insurance provided for them by their employer, so they don't have any of their disposable income going towards buying insurance. Others have to pay a small part of their premium, their place of employment pays the rest. Others get health coverage on the government's dime. Still others do pay a portion of their disposable income on insurance, though what would be considered a "large chunk" is debatable.

But goods are cheaper in the United States, too, so our dollar goes further in the buying market, especially without the high taxes; and most times our dollar value is higher than yours, so I could say salary comparisons aren't "fair" either.

Bottom line, I suppose any comparisons are, in reality, flawed in one way or another.

Edited March 13, 2010 by American Woman

[Smallc]

Yes, any comparisons are probably flawed. There was a study last year that showed the difference in price between American and Canadian goods had fallen to 7% taking currency differences into account. I'm not sure if that's increased or decreased since then.

[bush_cheney2004]

But goods are cheaper in the United States, too, so our dollar goes further in the buying market, especially without the high taxes; and most times our dollar value is higher than yours, so I could say salary comparisons aren't "fair" either.

This is key, as not only do Canadians pay higher retail costs and related sales taxes, but they have access to fewer goods. It's one thing to pay more in income taxes, but an added burden to pay onerous sales taxes when spending that income.

It always amazes me to what end some Canadians will go to avoid such taxes and fees for online auction purchases made in the USA.

[wyly]

I saw that after I made my post, but one month's comparison, with no sources as to how those figures were derived, what they're based on, really doesn't tell me anything regarding the overall picture.

And again, because of your higher taxes, a higher percentage of our salary is "disposable income."

the more I see the data Canadians paying more significantly more tax than Americans appears to be a myth...

here is the Federal tax rates in Canada

Taxable income Tax on this income

$0 - $10,320 Nil

$10,321 - $40,726 15%

$40,727 - $81,452 22%

$81,453 - $126,264 26%

Over $126,264 29%[8]

here are Federal tax rates in the USA

Marginal Tax Rate[3] Single Married Filing Jointly or Qualified Widow(er) Married Filing Separately Head of Household

10% $0 – $8,350 $0 – $16,700 $0 – $8,350 $0 – $11,950

15% $8,351– $33,950 $16,701 – $67,900 $8,351 – $33,950 $11,951 – $45,500

25% $33,951 – $82,250 $67,901 – $137,050 $33,951 – $68,525 $45,501 – $117,450

28% $82,251 – $171,550 $137,051 – $208,850 $68,525 – $104,425 $117,451 – $190,200

33% $171,551 – $372,950 $208,851 – $372,950 $104,426 – $186,475 $190,201 - $372,950

35% $372,951+ $372,951+ $186,476+ $372,951+

and if you go here the difference is marginal, Canadians pay 2-3% more personal tax but 3-4% less corporate tax...

[bush_cheney2004]

Link to the forbidden Fraser Institute tax calculator for each province:

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/tools/Default.htm

Yipes!

[Smallc]

They're a joke. They have the national tax freedom day almost six months into the year, yet two independent analysis show that as a country, we only pay 1/3 of our economy in taxes. Their estimates are also way off from the Department of Finance estimates that are now below 35%.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

They're a joke. They have the national tax freedom day almost six months into the year, yet two independent analysis show that as a country, we only pay 1/3 of our economy in taxes. Their estimates are also way off from the Department of Finance estimates that are now below 35%.

Of course....Fraser is forbidden! LOL!

Now...about the price and taxes for a new car.....

[Smallc]

Of course....Fraser is forbidden! LOL!

Well it's hard to take them serious when it's so blatantly obvious that they're lying.

Now, about that massive deficit that has no end in sight.....Sounds like you could use a sales tax.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well it's hard to take them serious when it's so blatantly obvious that they're lying.

Sure they're "lying"....we all know that Canadians pay less than Americans....for everything! LOL!

Now, about that massive deficit that has no end in sight.....Sounds like you could use a sales tax.

Nope....just cut government spending and entitlements.

[Smallc]

Sure they're "lying"....we all know that Canadians pay less than Americans....for everything! LOL!

I didn't say that. We don't pay significantly more as so many seem to think. The numbers are actually getting quite close from what I can tell.

Nope....just cut government spending and entitlements.

Good luck with that.

[bush_cheney2004]

I didn't say that. We don't pay significantly more as so many seem to think. The numbers are actually getting quite close from what I can tell.

What does that mean...."don't pay significantly more" ? You pay more at all levels, including higher retail prices. Canada means "land of paying more".

Edited March 14, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Smallc]

You pay more at all levels, including higher retail prices.

Retail prices have nothing to do with taxes. With the falling value of your dollar, I wouldn't be surprised if Americans soon had to put up with higher prices.

[bush_cheney2004]

Retail prices have nothing to do with taxes. With the falling value of your dollar, I wouldn't be surprised if Americans soon had to put up with higher prices.

I don't think you understand the impact of taxes on retail prices. Go buy some gas and report back.